Recommendations for Trace Elements

[The Propagator]

I use reef plus for aminos my self.

 

You know they may be two totally different things but they basically both achieve the same goal.

Good coral growth and coloration. They just do it in two different ways. I can tell a difference if I stop using reef plus for a week or two I know that ! Same with Coral accel. I stop dosing coral accel and my sheet stops growing fast. I stop dosing aminos and I lose a little color. I stop dosing elements and I lose both.

 

I have an insane bio load though. So thats probably why.

( any one reading this please dont click the link to my tank in my sig after reading I have a huge bioload and attempt it your self. Its not that I am any body special but I have taken years to balance out my massive bioload in a system that has the wickidest filtration system you have ever seen on a 100g system LOL! so don't try this at home applies here I believe.)

[Fsurocks99]

I see changes for sure, but I think I've got a medium size bio load with a large export system. I use Warner Marine Aminos.

Nice, I was thinking about trying the Brightwell CoralAmino. I have been reading a lot about it.

[BKtomodachi]

I'm still unconvinced that adding protein precursors will help with growth or color. I'd need to see more specific details in terms of how this actually works.

[The Propagator]

Building blocks are building block are building blocks........

[Fsurocks99]

BKtomodachi: I figure the more we eat the more we grow or most get fat, so the more abundance of food, in this case amino acids, the more energy they have to burn, in which they burn through excellerated growth. If that makes any sense.

[BKtomodachi]

Building blocks are building block are building blocks........

and your point is...?

[The Propagator]

That they basically serve the same roll in all living things and there is no reason they wouldn't work in this case as well. We had this argument a long time ago. Remember.

Show me proof that it wont work and I will shut up about it but I see proof it does in my tank every day

[BKtomodachi]

Yup, still not buying the vague explanations.

[The Propagator]

If you want a marine biologists explanation then ask a marine biologist. This is a hobbyist website. not a school of marine biology and pathology. Either you try it your self or you don't. But don't hound people about it because you dont want to try it your self and ask for technical data the likes of which there is no way a hobbyist can provide with out laboratory experimentation and lab equipment.

[Fsurocks99]

Yup, still not buying the vague explanations.

Okay inorder for a cell to function properly it needs amino acids and proteins. If you provide an extra and constant supply it will just cause those functions to occur a more rapid pace.

[The Propagator]

You know what he is gonna say .....

[BKtomodachi]

Okay inorder for a cell to function properly it needs amino acids and proteins. If you provide an extra and constant supply it will just cause those functions to occur a more rapid pace.

eh, in general that is false actually.

 

I don't think you have to be a marine biologist to provide an explanation for why a product might or might not work. We can talk about pH, alk, PAR, levels of elements in the water, etc, and yet we can't provide any information on a biochemical process. *shrug*.

[Fsurocks99]

You know what he is gonna say .....

lol yeah just tryin to help. im actually studyin to be a marine biologist.

[The Propagator]

eh, in general that is false actually.

 

I don't think you have to be a marine biologist to provide an explanation for why a product might or might not work. We can talk about pH, alk, PAR, levels of elements in the water, etc, and yet we can't provide any information on a biochemical process. *shrug*.

 

Then break it down for us big man.

Stop asking us to and be the man. Break us off a nice piece of biochemical analysis.

[Fsurocks99]

eh, in general that is false actually.

 

How is that false?

[The Propagator]

He has no clue.

He does this every time some one brings up aminos for use in our reef because Dave ESPI and the wild bunch back in the day used to dis using them and it was cool to agree with them. That pretty much sums it up.

[BKtomodachi]

OK.

 

From:

The Journal of Experimental Biology 211, 860-865

Published by The Company of Biologists 2008

 

SUMMARY

This study was designed to assess the importance of dissolved free amino acids (DFAA) as a nitrogen source for the scleractinian

coral Stylophora pistillata. For this purpose, experiments were performed using 15N-enriched DFAAs, and %15N enrichment was

measured both in animal tissue and zooxanthellae at different DFAA concentrations, incubation time and light levels. As

previously observed for urea, which is another source of organic nitrogen, DFAA uptake exhibited a biphasic mode consisting of

an active carrier-mediated transport for concentrations below 3·?mol·l–1and a linear uptake for higher concentrations. The value

of the carrier affinity (Km=1.23·?mol·l–1DFAA) indicated good adaptation of the corals to the low levels of DFAA concentrations

measured in most oligotrophic waters. DFAA uptake was also correlated with light. The DFAA contribution to the nitrogen

requirements for tissue growth was compared to the contribution of ammonia, nitrate and urea, for which uptake was also

measured in S. pistillata. Inorganic sources (NH4+and NO3–) contributed 75% of the daily nitrogen needs against 24% for organic

sources. Taken altogether, dissolved organic and inorganic nitrogen can supply almost 100% of the nitrogen needs for tissue

growth.

 

 

 

but I appreciate the support prop.

[Fsurocks99]

BKtomodachi: Good info, its true, but you also can't say that an extra energy source would hurt sps corals.

[The Propagator]

I all got out of that was "yadda yadda yadda..... nitrogen"

 

Break it down for us in every day terms as to exactly why amino acids will not work for color and growth in our coral already. I told you .. we aren't all marine biologists. We are hobbyists who largely do not posses degrees in biochemistry. Which is why we always stick with the old " its works for me " if we see results from a particular product or additive in our respective systems.

There is no shame in my game baby. If I look stupid for asking you to explain what you just copied and pasted then so be it. But I bet you a thousand bucks 99.9% of the members here who read that are going to ask the same thing though ! So what may seem a stupid question on my part right now will ultimately serve as a good thing for those in the same boat later who read this.

 

Fsurocks99 care to break it down for me ?

 

( So far though.. I am sticking with " because Dave said so" )

[Fsurocks99]

I all got out of that was "yadda yadda yadda..... nitrogen"

 

Break it down for us in every day terms as to exactly why amino acids will not work for color and growth in our coral already. I told you .. we aren't all marine biologists. We are hobbyists who largely do not posses degrees in biochemistry.

 

Fsurocks99 care to break it down for me ?

Hey in my book it makes sense that amino acids would help. How could they hurt? That study was saying that all Stylophora pistillata needed to grow tissue was nitrogen, but that seems more of what you would find on a natural reef, which is low in nutrients away. And that is what the coral adapted to. But with the normal reef system, corals have a great spectrum of elements, minerals, AMINO ACIDS, etc, in which to uptake. So that is why is some systems corals can grow 10x as fast as they would in the wild.

 

 

This is my opinion, I haven't walked the stage yet.

[The Propagator]

That's what I was thinking it all boiled down to as well but I get lost in the tech jargen easily.

So basically what was quoted as proof was really just a study on nitrogen used by a single coral in a study on growth ?

BKtomodachi its looking like FAIL is in your future homey ... ?

 

Here is about umpteen million pages of pro amino... ( google ) :

 

http://www.google.com/search?complete=1&am...eef&spell=1

[jeremai]

Prop, do you still have me on ignore?

 

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender...mp;blobtype=pdf

 

The gist, in terms you may understand: since the five corals tested can produce the majority of amino acids themselves (16 of 20, eight of which are essential), we can conclude that amino acids added to the water column are redundant and unnecessary. lmk if 'conclude' and 'redundant' are too large of words, I can dumb them down if need be.

 

Scientific 'jargon' > product marketing (lol @ your Google search). Now kindly stfu.

 

 

 

 

and lol @ ESPi and the 'wild bunch'.

[Fsurocks99]

Okay guys and gals, obviously you all have different opinions but this thread in this thread i want to know people that have tried amino acids and trace elements and seen a real improvement. Idk if you all tried and no success or just have your preferences, we all do. So, just chill out.

[The Propagator]

Prop, do you still have me on ignore?

 

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender...mp;blobtype=pdf

 

The gist, in terms you may understand: since the five corals tested can produce the majority of amino acids themselves (16 of 20, eight of which are essential), we can conclude that amino acids added to the water column are redundant and unnecessary. lmk if 'conclude' and 'redundant' are too large of words, I can dumb them down if need be.

 

Scientific 'jargon' > product marketing (lol @ your Google search). Now kindly stfu.

 

 

 

 

and lol @ ESPi and the 'wild bunch'.

 

I didn't have you on ignore but I do now.

Why or how you and a couple others are still moderators here let alone able to keep your member ship is a complete mystery to us all. ( If you think any different you are kidding your self )

You're a troll and a most of the time a complete azz hole. Your post above proves it beyond further explanation.

If "azz hole" or "troll" need to be put in easier to understand terms for you please just look in the mirror. You will see the explanations you seek starring back at you.

 

But hey ! Thanks for the link any way !

Now YOU kindly STFU !

 

( Whats that ? Thinking of banning me for my comments or deleting my response ? YUP that's a troll move too. other wise known as "can dish it out but cant take it ". You are a legend in your own mind little boy. )

 

Fsurocks99:

NO they haven't because they observe troll rules and extrapolate their own meanings out of the realm of normalcy from what ever they read so they can bash the rest who have actually tried things and had success through using them. Because every one knows every thing they read on the internet applies to all real life scenarios and all that.

Its nothing new. Simple playground troll rules is all.

[clifford513]

since the five corals tested can produce the majority of amino acids themselves (16 of 20, eight of which are essential), we can conclude that amino acids added to the water column are redundant and unnecessary.

But if they have to use energy to produce them wouldn't that take away from growth? That sounds like the difference between survival and thriving, imo.