Why do pepole keep flowerpot corals?

[nyfishguy]

There are alot of corals that we keep in are tanks today (SPS) that were impossible to keep. There were alot of losses of acros and such, if it was not for the constant experimenting we still would not be able to keep these animals. Like i said in the above post their are some Goni sp. that are quite hardy.

 

 

If I started any kind of fight I'm sorry...this was supposed to be a friendly disagreement

 

It is true (and please feel free to look it up) that the collection methods that are being implicated in the worlds reefs are not only unsafe but just plain careless so you have to ask yourself...why are ppl collecting the coral in the first place?? one reason and one reason only.....to put up for sale for ppl one way or another wether it be used for coral calcium supplements or dried out SPS corals for use as skeleton decor, to the corals that you and i have in our tanks in our living rooms. so it doesen't matter wether it's a flowerpot or another coral....we should be held accountable in some way or form

 

now yes it's also true that climate changes and pollution are other huge factors BUT there is some thing WE as a group of ppl that take an interest in reef tanks as a hobby....buy propagated coral frags soft or hard....and above all and i cannot stress this enough.....wait for the experts to find out how to keep those quote on quote "expert only" coral before more corals die for nothing in a home aquarium

 

you can agree or disagree but that's my opinion...it's only takes a few people to make a difference in the world

 

thanks

[SulfurAcid]

I think that the Goniopora scenario is going to be very similiar to the SPS scenario earlier on. The corals were impossible to keep, and the only type of Acropora ever seen in tanks were the calcium skeletons. But technology always advances, and then hobbyists were able to keep brightly colored specimens that grew crazy!

 

What will it be, 5...10 more years before hobbyists are truly able to keep these corals. The route to take is not to keep taking these corals in a hit and miss fashion, that only leads to even more demand for these creatures. Hobbyists who are truly dedicated to this hobby will learn that the course we must take should be:

 

- Not purchasing these corals in the hopes that a lower demand of them causes LFS and online stores to not collect them anymore.

- Instead of doing a trial and error, maybe put out the demand for actual research into the coral colonies. What foods are most likely going to keep the skeleton and polyps healthy and thriving. What lighting, flow, water conditions are needed. I think that it is going to come down to how to recreate the natural conditions as best as possible.

-Create the demand for better equipment. More efficient skimmers, more natural filtration, how can we possibly make our water quality better, or more easily managed.

 

 

What I find truly ridiculous are the amount of goniopora stokesi being exported and taken from where they belong . If you refer to this CITES document, it says that 43000 creatures were exported from Indonesia, and 0 from mariculture!!!!

 

Goniopora are found in areas sheltered from any strong wave action, because the nature of tehir polyp extension prohibits them from any heavy seas. Could it be that the flow in our aquariums is damaging the corals?

 

Goniopora are mostly found on reef slopes, but may also be sighted in lagoons and still-plankton waters. Is the nature of our saltwater affecting these corals at all?

 

 

 

 

 

 

My point is...we still have a lot of studying to do on these corals, but it can be done. Just like people say goniopora is impossible to keep today, 5 years, and it might be standard in every tank.

 

Oh, and btw, just because someone is younger, doesnt mean they dont do their research, I can rattle off names of kids here in high school(self included), who dont consider buying anything until research is done.

[nyfishguy]

I think that the Goniopora scenario is going to be very similiar to the SPS scenario earlier on. The corals were impossible to keep, and the only type of Acropora ever seen in tanks were the calcium skeletons. But technology always advances, and then hobbyists were able to keep brightly colored specimens that grew crazy!

 

What will it be, 5...10 more years before hobbyists are truly able to keep these corals. The route to take is not to keep taking these corals in a hit and miss fashion, that only leads to even more demand for these creatures. Hobbyists who are truly dedicated to this hobby will learn that the course we must take should be:

 

- Not purchasing these corals in the hopes that a lower demand of them causes LFS and online stores to not collect them anymore.

- Instead of doing a trial and error, maybe put out the demand for actual research into the coral colonies. What foods are most likely going to keep the skeleton and polyps healthy and thriving. What lighting, flow, water conditions are needed. I think that it is going to come down to how to recreate the natural conditions as best as possible.

-Create the demand for better equipment. More efficient skimmers, more natural filtration, how can we possibly make our water quality better, or more easily managed.

 

 

What I find truly ridiculous are the amount of goniopora stokesi being exported and taken from where they belong . If you refer to this CITES document, it says that 43000 creatures were exported from Indonesia, and 0 from mariculture!!!!

 

Goniopora are found in areas sheltered from any strong wave action, because the nature of tehir polyp extension prohibits them from any heavy seas. Could it be that the flow in our aquariums is damaging the corals?

 

Goniopora are mostly found on reef slopes, but may also be sighted in lagoons and still-plankton waters. Is the nature of our saltwater affecting these corals at all?

 

 

 

 

 

 

My point is...we still have a lot of studying to do on these corals, but it can be done. Just like people say goniopora is impossible to keep today, 5 years, and it might be standard in every tank.

 

Oh, and btw, just because someone is younger, doesnt mean they dont do their research, I can rattle off names of kids here in high school(self included), who dont consider buying anything until research is done.

 

 

 

well, at least 2 of us are on the same page

[xplicit]

Oh, and btw, just because someone is younger, doesnt mean they dont do their research, I can rattle off names of kids here in high school(self included), who dont consider buying anything until research is done.

 

Just because you know a handful of people who do, doesn't mean everyone else does.

 

If I started any kind of fight I'm sorry...this was supposed to be a friendly disagreement

 

It is true (and please feel free to look it up) that the collection methods that are being implicated in the worlds reefs are not only unsafe but just plain careless so you have to ask yourself...why are ppl collecting the coral in the first place?? one reason and one reason only.....to put up for sale for ppl one way or another wether it be used for coral calcium supplements or dried out SPS corals for use as skeleton decor, to the corals that you and i have in our tanks in our living rooms. so it doesen't matter wether it's a flowerpot or another coral....we should be held accountable in some way or form

 

now yes it's also true that climate changes and pollution are other huge factors BUT there is some thing WE as a group of ppl that take an interest in reef tanks as a hobby....buy propagated coral frags soft or hard....and above all and i cannot stress this enough.....wait for the experts to find out how to keep those quote on quote "expert only" coral before more corals die for nothing in a home aquarium

 

you can agree or disagree but that's my opinion...it's only takes a few people to make a difference in the world

 

thanks

 

I'm sorry but wasn't your original post about flowerpots? Now your saying its not just flowerpots but other corals too? So is this debate about saving flowerpots or the reef? I think we just went of course here.

[SulfurAcid]

Just because you know a handful of people who do, doesn't mean everyone else does.

 

 

 

I'm sorry but wasn't your original post about flowerpots? Now your saying its not just flowerpots but other corals too? So is this debate about saving flowerpots or the reef? I think we just went of course here.

 

 

 

Heh, alright. How about the fact that there are equal amounts of people 30 years and older asking if they can keep lionfish in nanos or sharks in 55 gallon tanks. All I am trying to say is that, although younger people are getting into this hobby, which is great, there is an equal distribution of ignorance and no one age group can be blamed.

[xplicit]

Heh, alright. How about the fact that there are equal amounts of people 30 years and older asking if they can keep lionfish in nanos or sharks in 55 gallon tanks. All I am trying to say is that, although younger people are getting into this hobby, which is great, there is an equal distribution of ignorance and no one age group can be blamed.

Ok I see your point.

[lakshwadeep]

If I started any kind of fight I'm sorry...this was supposed to be a friendly disagreement

 

Wow, you sure have a strange way of being friendly:

 

all those articles are theory based only....unless you have a tank that 1000+ gallons and you can really truly re-create a "nautral" reef is the only time i've heard of any one keeping one alive over a year....how many ppl on this site have had one last for a year and a half??? I bet less then I can count on one finger

 

...

 

at this point the ONLY way to keep flowerpots is short term...that's the only fact here

 

edit: If you want to have a discussion, please show some respect by at least reading the article I linked to. It specifically shows how to keep Gonioporas, and some colonies "were still alive after more than two years in our display tank".

[Payara]

[reefman225gal]

If I started any kind of fight I'm sorry...this was supposed to be a friendly disagreement

 

It is true (and please feel free to look it up) that the collection methods that are being implicated in the worlds reefs are not only unsafe but just plain careless so you have to ask yourself...why are ppl collecting the coral in the first place?? one reason and one reason only.....to put up for sale for ppl one way or another wether it be used for coral calcium supplements or dried out SPS corals for use as skeleton decor, to the corals that you and i have in our tanks in our living rooms. so it doesen't matter wether it's a flowerpot or another coral....we should be held accountable in some way or form

 

now yes it's also true that climate changes and pollution are other huge factors BUT there is some thing WE as a group of ppl that take an interest in reef tanks as a hobby....buy propagated coral frags soft or hard....and above all and i cannot stress this enough.....wait for the experts to find out how to keep those quote on quote "expert only" coral before more corals die for nothing in a home aquarium

 

you can agree or disagree but that's my opinion...it's only takes a few people to make a difference in the world

 

thanks

I agree with you on the part that gonis are not for everyone but their are some ppl that make informed decisions and do the best that they can do to provide for that animal. If you look in Julian Sprungs coral Guide he has some gonis rated pretty hardy some not so hardy. But your right leave the tough species to the advanced hobbyist.

[joel sandoman]

Obviously the OP didn't really want an answer, he/she just wanted to rant and rave about saving goniopora.

But here's my answer anyways; cuz their purty!

[SulfurAcid]

Obviously the OP didn't really want an answer, he/she just wanted to rant and rave about saving goniopora.

But here's my answer anyways; cuz their purty!

 

 

I dont think anyone is denying they are very very purty, but are we, as hobbyists dedicated to this hobby, going to allow 45,000 wild specimens to be removed from their natural habitat just for temporary eye candy?

[BKtomodachi]

This thread is awful. Really. One of the worst in quite some time.

[ermartin]

This thread is awful. Really. One of the worst in quite some time.

yup... Its like HBO doesnt matter how many channels or what time of the day it is you can see the same old show over and over and over and over

[Sac_State]

That's the same mentality that wont help the hobby...some people like to learn and help others on difficult species and further advance the hobby, while others, want the benefits without getting their hands dirty.

 

you're right, we should all run out and buy goni's just to test them out. maybe we should all do a group buy on orange spotted tile fish, chambered nautilus, and deep-sea gorgonians as well. I mean, how else are we going to succeed unless we keep trying, regardless of the outcome, how long it takes, or the damage that it causes.

[SulfurAcid]

I am so proud of you...I cant believe your in a local reef club...WAY TO GO!!!

 

 

heh, i need to learn that smilie....

 

 

hmm.... ? AWESOME

[nyfishguy]

I'm not trying to cause problems....and yes i do have a weird way of being friendly.....Im from NY..lol

 

but ppl are too occupied talking about there tanks and equipment (witch by the way is tottally cool im not knocking anyone for that) but what i am saying is that ppl overlook the important impact that we have on the reef hobby... Flowerpots are NOT suitable YET for the home aquarium (well goni's anyway) and ppl should stop being so ignorant about keeping things they know are going to die prematurely because "They're Pretty" that IT!!!

 

lets end this thread before i turn everyone on the forum against each other

 

 

moving on......

[SaltyVT]

yup... Its like HBO doesnt matter how many channels or what time of the day it is you can see the same old show over and over and over and over

 

 

I only wish I could switch to Skinamax right now

[Payara]

you're right, we should all run out and buy goni's just to test them out. maybe we should all do a group buy on orange spotted tile fish, chambered nautilus, and deep-sea gorgonians as well. I mean, how else are we going to succeed unless we keep trying, regardless of the outcome, how long it takes, or the damage that it causes.

Yeah I think that's GREAT idea!!!

But you probably won't be interested since it's going to take time, patience, and daily attention. You should probably reap the benefits of others who try to take on challenge. If I succeed with my orange tree gorgonian, I'll frag a piece for you. But, if you can't wait maybe ask slcw he already has some frags of some gorgonians.

 

I'm so happy that we are on the same page

[Greenstar]

thousands of dead gonioporas beg to differ...almost no one has been able to keep one beyond two years.

 

:sigh:

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/10/aafeature2#h3

 

I doubt I can get through to you but I will try. People used to say you can't keep acros, you can't keep clams, you can't keep non-photosynthetic corals etc. But as the hobby progresses people begin to develop a better understanding of what they are keeping their, the corals natural history, and their needs. Now the same can be said for goniopora which is still being killed by thousands of naive people who do not want to put for the effort to keep them. They simply want to put them in a tank, broadcast feed whatever, and pray they live. Unfortunately if you tried to do that with something like a tuberastrea or a chili coral it would be fuxored after it slowly starved to death, the same can be said for gonioporas. The difference between goniopora and other corals is that not all members of the genus can be treated equally. It is important to correctly identify an individual coral down to the species complex or even the species. Then care must be taken to either gather a known food source that will elicit a feeding response or to try a number of various different foods until one is found that the coral will eat. If you don't feed it the correct food then yes your coral will be ####ed.

 

Now there is definitely an exception to this rule, that being the encrusting gonioporas (not the ones with poor polyp extension due to starvation, but true encrusters). They seem to be capable of surviving under normal tank conditions and provided enough DOM and plenty of light and flow.

 

 

 

I'm not trying to cause problems....and yes i do have a weird way of being friendly.....Im from NY..lol

 

but ppl are too occupied talking about there tanks and equipment (witch by the way is tottally cool im not knocking anyone for that) but what i am saying is that ppl overlook the important impact that we have on the reef hobby... Flowerpots are NOT suitable YET for the home aquarium (well goni's anyway) and ppl should stop being so ignorant about keeping things they know are going to die prematurely because "They're Pretty" that IT!!!

 

lets end this thread before i turn everyone on the forum against each other

 

 

moving on......

 

Your noob give it a rest.

 

great attitude...no wonder the world's reefs are in such bad shape.

 

You realize that regardless of whether or not a coral lives in a home aquarium or not once you take from the reef it is fundamentally dead. Live rock that is collected from the reef is basically taking away the reefs base and is done through dynamite, hammer and chisel?

[nyfishguy]

first of all dont call me a noob....i've been keeping tanks for most of my life and salt tanks for 12 years now so like i said call this a dead issue and drop it....ppl are ignorant....I get it and ppl dont care if they kill things for there own sense of personal gain or to present a challenge to themselves

 

 

so long as they "look pretty" right?

[BLoCkCliMbeR]

wtf is a flower pot coral? and can i buy one for 20 bucks? who cares if it dies.....i got cash.. ill buy a new one...........

 

sarcasim of course.....some people dont value life like you(we) do.......i like to think of coral as gaia's brain, and she tells us to grow more of it....hence the addiction to reefing.....mind control

[nyfishguy]

wtf is a flower pot coral? and can i buy one for 20 bucks? who cares if it dies.....i got cash.. ill buy a new one...........

 

sarcasim of course.....some people dont value life like you(we) do.......i like to think of coral as gaia's brain, and she tells us to grow more of it....hence the addiction to reefing.....mind control

 

thanks....

[Greenstar]

No, obviously you miss all of my points.

 

First off gonioporas have been successfully kept long term by those who understand their needs

 

Second they can be fragged, regenerate and be fragged again thus are a suitable candidate for the hobby ( much like tuberastera, clams etc.)

 

Third there is no reason to go all high and mighty about corals dying at the hands of the new, uneducated hobbyist (you would have a much better route about the continued importation of bleached anemones) when everything from live rock to corals fundementally damages the reef and is biologically dead to the reef regardless of its survival.

[BLoCkCliMbeR]

why do people still buy plecos for FW tanks...its a friggin 2 foot fish! there are so many w/o good homes......call the humane society i guess....

 

No, obviously you miss all of my points.

Second they can be fragged, regenerate and be fragged again thus are a suitable candidate for the hobby ( much like tuberastera, clams etc.)

[nyfishguy]

why do people still buy plecos for FW tanks...its a friggin 2 foot fish! there are so many w/o good homes......call the humane society i guess....

 

enough.......there has been no flowerpots kept alive for over 1 and a half to two years in a home tank...i get your point and i think this is ridiculous at this point....they are no good for the home aquarium

 

done, finished, please some one delete this f-in' thread already