Can you ID this brown algae?

[hazmat]

Had it awhile back and I got it under control. I changed my lighting fixture to the Current Outer Orbit which is MH and actinic beginning of August and it's back. In fact, I need to increase my MH time (it's only on 4.5 hours) but I'm hesitant because it seems to spur on the algae growth.

 

It also seems to collect the micro bubbles in my tank (a problem with the Red Sea) so after the MH photo period the bubbles are sticking to all my rocks.

 

 

And here are the bubbles stuck on the rock...No algae on the rock that I can see.

 

Further info: params WNL, no phos, feed fish every other day, run chemi-pure and purigen. Tunze skimmer and an extra Koralia 2 pump. I have my own RO and TDS is 5. I use Red Sea Coral Pro salt. Temps have been running 79 to 81. My lawnmower blenny seems to eat it so I don't think it's toxic or anything (I read nothing eats Dinos because it's toxic?) And the strings get caught in the grate of the Koralia and grows right in front of the flow so I don't think flow is an issue.

 

I've been doing small twice weekly water changes and I change my filter floss daily. I also use a super soft clean paintbrush and dust off the corals and "strings" everyday after the MH. So my fun hobby is pretty labor intensive.

 

Any input would be great!

[bagoegg]

cyano bacteria aka red slime algae. Good luck at trying to get rid of it! It is a PITA. It feeds off of phosphates and ntirates so while this is in your tank your test results will be skewed because the cyano is sucking them all up. Best way to get rid of it is to do some water changes, cut down on lighting, cut down on feeding, suck up what you can with a turkey baster and increase flow. If all that doesnt work you can try a red slime killer such as chemi clean. You can use your own judgement on if thats necessary.

[dahliaheartsyou]

dinoflagella.

[hazmat]

You know I've had Cyano a couple of times and this looks nothing like it! It's brown. It forms strings where cyano formed more like mats and I could peel it from the rocks. The strings can get pretty long if I leave them. And they will form on the corals but again, more in a stringy fasion. It's hit or miss on my sand bed. I can still see this brown stuff even when the lights are off too. I'm getting some rusty film on my glass that easily comes off with the mag float. Doesn't that sound like Diatoms?? But my tank is 7 months old.

 

dinoflagella.

 

Doesn't really look like the pictures. and it doesn't really look "snotty" and clumpy. More like very fine threads. And they are not majorly increasing....just can't get rid of them. I would think dinos would keep getting worse and spreading....

 

But that would be my worst fear!

[bagoegg]

To me the bubbles are a sure sign its cyano. Ive had some cyano mats that have string 3 inches long. Yumminess for ceriths!

[dahliaheartsyou]

You know I've had Cyano a couple of times and this looks nothing like it! It's brown. It forms strings where cyano formed more like mats and I could peel it from the rocks. The strings can get pretty long if I leave them. And they will form on the corals but again, more in a stringy fasion. It's hit or miss on my sand bed. I can still see this brown stuff even when the lights are off too. I'm getting some rusty film on my glass that easily comes off with the mag float. Doesn't that sound like Diatoms?? But my tank is 7 months old.

 

 

 

Doesn't really look like the pictures. and it doesn't really look "snotty" and clumpy. More like very fine threads. And they are not majorly increasing....just can't get rid of them. I would think dinos would keep getting worse and spreading....

 

But that would be my worst fear!

 

it doesn't have to be snotty or clumpy.

def. dino.

i had it about 1 1/2 months in, and it went away on its own.

[hazmat]

I always thought Dinos took over your tank. I've read up on it and people talk about having to "black out" your tank and "get ready for the fight of your life" I think the quote was! There are quite a few pictures and all of them show this brown slimey, snotty mass with bubbles. Do you have a pic of it?

 

And it's interesting about the bubbles. The bubbles start off in the water column and tend to get bigger with the increasing photo time. then they end up sticking to the rocks. Maybe that is what normally happends but I was always under the impression that the algae gave off the bubbles and that is why you see the mass of algae with bubbles all in it. Mine are sticking to places that have no visible algae on it.

 

It's all very weird...not clear cut one or the other.

 

And thanks for everyones help!

[dahliaheartsyou]

well, here is a pic of mine, when they first started to grow before they were long, mine never took over.

they get snottier when you start treating.

 

i wouldn't be that worried, it depends on the severity of them, Mr.Fosi did a really good thread on treating too.

[bagoegg]

I think Dahlias right and im wrong. Thats probably what I have then.

[hazmat]

I know...I read that thread about the sugar and vinegar (or whatever it was). Yuck! that is the last thing I want to do is cloud up my tank. Just the process of it looks like a PITA!

 

I guess I'm just going to keep truckin and doing what I'm doing and hopefully they will subside again. Not to mention that it's hot as Hedes here in Texas so it's been a bit of a challenge keeping the tank cool.

[Uhuru]

that looks like dinos to me. when you blow it off how quickly does it come back? I remember when the dinos had the upper hand, they would come back in like 5 minutes. When I started getting the upper hand, they would take longer and longer to come back, and eventually I siphoned it out and it never came back.

 

instead of just blowing it off, get a turkey baster, and suck it into the baster, and dump the water.

[hazmat]

that looks like dinos to me. when you blow it off how quickly does it come back? I remember when the dinos had the upper hand, they would come back in like 5 minutes. When I started getting the upper hand, they would take longer and longer to come back, and eventually I siphoned it out and it never came back.

 

instead of just blowing it off, get a turkey baster, and suck it into the baster, and dump the water.

 

Yes, now that it's further along I realize it's Dinos.....sh*t, sh*t, sh*t!!!!!!! sorry everyone....

 

OK, I'm now debating what to do. I have 3 fish (my lawnmower blenny just died!) multiple corals and a clam. I have an 8 gallon biocube that has been cycled for awhile that had flatworms and I just treated. I can't fit all my livestock in that tank. And besides...wouldn't that just transfer the dinos into that tank??

 

Any advice on how to proceed? I'm doing the more frequent water changes and siphoning it out. Does anyone think the Vodka dosing will outcompete the dinos for nutrients? Plus the lights out and water changes?? I really don't want to break down this tank. I looked back at some notes and realized it's been a problem since June. got better and now has worsened again.

[skydive]

I've been battling it for around 4 months. It went away for a month and then came back after I upgraded the tank and lights. When I first had it I did a blackout for 3 days and it was gone. This time it's not as affective.

 

Till it's gone I'm doing water changes with airline tubing attached to a wooden dowel so I can go over every inch of the rock. I did this today then turned off the lights and put a black towel over the glass, hopefully that will knock it down some.

[hazmat]

I've been battling it for around 4 months. It went away for a month and then came back after I upgraded the tank and lights. When I first had it I did a blackout for 3 days and it was gone. This time it's not as affective.

 

Till it's gone I'm doing water changes with airline tubing attached to a wooden dowel so I can go over every inch of the rock. I did this today then turned off the lights and put a black towel over the glass, hopefully that will knock it down some.

 

That's what I did...upgraded my light to a MH and it's come back. It does not look like the typical pictures of dinos but when I turned off my pumps to do my water change I got a pretty good look. It almost looks like rusty brown cobb webs. And it's very generalized in my tank. Not a lot on one thing but fine strings on many different things. Not heavy on the sandbed either. AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

 

As far as your blackout. Do you have corals and livestock?? I'm most concerned about my clam. But I guess when there is a storm there is no light on the reef and everything survives. What a PITA!!! I'm about this close to getting out of the hobby. I knew it would be work but this is not enjoyable!

 

Still would like to hear opinions about the vodka dosing to compete for nutrients....

[skydive]

You have the Outer Orbit Pro with two 250's don't you? If so that's what I upgraded to. First dino's showed up when I upgraded the lights from PC to a single 250w Sunpod on the 29g, now I add more light so I get more dino...yay!

 

The livestock I have a 3" Crocea clam, multiple SPS and LPS frags (all requiring intense lighting). I forgot to mention I decreased the photo period to 5 hours a day and slowly raising it back up 30 minutes to an hour each week.

 

I haven't heard anything about vodka dosing so I can't tell you anything about that.

 

Good luck and don't be a quitter!

[hazmat]

You have the Outer Orbit Pro with two 250's don't you? If so that's what I upgraded to. First dino's showed up when I upgraded the lights from PC to a single 250w Sunpod on the 29g, now I add more light so I get more dino...yay!

 

The livestock I have a 3" Crocea clam, multiple SPS and LPS frags (all requiring intense lighting). I forgot to mention I decreased the photo period to 5 hours a day and slowly raising it back up 30 minutes to an hour each week.

 

I haven't heard anything about vodka dosing so I can't tell you anything about that.

 

Good luck and don't be a quitter!

 

Thanks for the vote! I really don't want to be a quitter

Yes, I have the Outer Orbit Pro with the 150 watt MH (not sure what you mean with the two 250's??) I really like the fixture. I only have the MH on from 11-3:30 because of the dinos. Of course I thought it was just algae. I had been wanting to increase the MH time but couldn't because of the algae.

Ok, since you have more light demanding corals than I do I'm not so freaky about turning off the lights. And to clarify you turned off the actinics too, right?

I just did a water change so now might be a good time to keep lights off for a few days and see what happends. So basically you just turned off all lights to the hood x3 days and covered it with a towel? Everything else the same? I feed my fish every other day.

If you do a search on "Vodka dosing" there is a thread with very interesting information. It basically talks about adding organic carbon (the Vodka) to your tank which increases bacteria growth. The bacteria feed off the nitrates and phosphates bringing them basically down to 0. It also increases SPS polyp extention and color (I don't have any SPS so this isn't an advantage for me). so if the nitrates are 0 then the dinos would have nothing to feed off of. It's more used to decrease nitrates but people are trying it to get rid of nuisence algae. Mr. Fosi used this method (only he used sugar I believe) to rid his tank of Dinos.

Anyway, it sounds like something I might try.

Thanks again for responding!

Heidi

[skydive]

I thought you had 2 250w watt MH's, my bad.

 

Yes, I turned off all lights including the fuge and moon lights, completely blacking it out for 3 days. Did you do your water change with an airline tube? It takes longer but manually removing them off one rock at a time and also removing the ones floating around should be a big help, especially if you did the blackout right afterwards. Just keep an eye on a big drop in pH at night.

 

It doesn't sound like it's terribly bad. You should be able to kill it off with the blackout. Mine was pretty bad the first time around and it was gone after the third day.

 

I'll look into the Vodka and sugar, but don't you get the same with Chaeto and Chemi-Pure Elite? Even when I didn't have dino's my tests still showed zero.

 

Where the hell is the super snail that eats this junk?

[hazmat]

I thought you had 2 250w watt MH's, my bad.

 

Yes, I turned off all lights including the fuge and moon lights, completely blacking it out for 3 days. Did you do your water change with an airline tube? It takes longer but manually removing them off one rock at a time and also removing the ones floating around should be a big help, especially if you did the blackout right afterwards. Just keep an eye on a big drop in pH at night.

 

It doesn't sound like it's terribly bad. You should be able to kill it off with the blackout. Mine was pretty bad the first time around and it was gone after the third day.

 

I'll look into the Vodka and sugar, but don't you get the same with Chaeto and Chemi-Pure Elite? Even when I didn't have dino's my tests still showed zero.

 

Where the hell is the super snail that eats this junk?

I agree! I always laugh when a crab or snail is described as eating cyano. Nothing eats that cr*p! And dinos are toxic.

I siphon with tubing but it's a bit bigger diameter than airline. Hubby controls the flow so I did a good job getting sand, rocks and water. Went ahead and put in brand new purigen, chemi pure elite (I was only using chemi pure) and turned off lights and put a towel over one end which gets some light from the window. My clown was kind of freaking out!!

I do not have a fuge so how do you handle the pH issue?

[Mr. Fosi]

Looks like dinos.

 

The kalk + vinegar mix may or may not work depending on how tenacious your particular brand of dinos is.

 

Blackout + nutrient denial seems to do the trick for most people.

[hazmat]

Looks like dinos.

 

The kalk + vinegar mix may or may not work depending on how tenacious your particular brand of dinos is.

 

Blackout + nutrient denial seems to do the trick for most people.

 

Yay!!!! Mr. Fosi!!!! I've been waiting for you.

 

I've been trying to find your thread on how you kicked dinos! What do you think of the Vodka dosing? doesn't dino feed off nitrates and nutrients?? So if I dose the Vodka and get my nitrates down as much as possible wouldn't that be a positive for cutting off food for dinos?? Makes sense to me but I'm not the reef expert. Thought I would try that after the blackout.

I know you created quite a bacterial bloom when you did yours. And how am I supposed to handle the pH dropping during a blackout? I have pH buffer (use when I'm doing a FW dip) but I have read not to use buffer.

Any more info you can give me? I am a nurse so I have the biology, chemistry background to understand the process.

Thanks!

[Uhuru]

As a last resort, another thing you might try, is a new product by Fauna Marin called "Algae-X."

 

“Ultra Algea X is a very strong and effective solution to remove any hairy or plague type algae growth in Reef Tanks, it also removes dinoflagellates and Briopsis algaes. It treats algae plauges in reef aquariums without harming any corals. AlgeaX does not destabilise the aquarium system. AlgeaX is not a treatment for Cyano bacteria, but for all type of algeas.”

 

before:

 

after:

 

The stuff is expensive though, and still too new to know if it really works. You can buy it here: http://www.cherrycorals.com/product.php?productid=841

 

Oh and you have to remove your clam before treatment. Here is a long thread about it: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...mp;pagenumber=1

[Uhuru]

from some of the posts I've read it doesn't work as well on certain algae but a couple who had dinos said it worked. the problem is different algae popped up and the dinos returned once the dosing stopped.

 

So it sounds like you need a REALLY good skimmer, filter socks changed multiple times throughout the day, and probably manually siphoning during treatment. This will ensure as the algae dies it doesn't release nutrients back into the tank for new algae to take over. I'd also make sure the tank is very well oxygenated.

[hazmat]

Yay!! Uhuru is here!! Didn't want you to feel left out

 

Wow!! That thread took me forever to read. Interesting product. I don't think my algae problem is bad enough to use it yet! But good to know if it gets there. My blackout ends tonight and we will see if anything returns. But it gave me quite a few things to research. I'm all about research! It's also good to know that there is something out there that we can try before totally tearing down a tank.

 

I basically have 3 fish, a few corals and the clam in my tank. Some of these people have totally involved tanks with all kinds of reactors etc...and some aweful algae problems. Man, I thought I had it bad!!

 

I'm going to look into the Ultr lith method to decrease nitrates and see how that compares to dosing Vodka. There is also another product that Reefmack has used that is also a nitrate reducer that he ordered from Marine Depot. I'll have to ask him again the name of it.

 

Edit: I guess $106 is still cheaper than tearing down your tank and buying new rock but still....ouch!

[Mr. Fosi]

Hey, I found this thread again.

[hazmat]

Hey, I found this thread again.

 

Uh yeah....where have you been??

 

Did you read that thread on RC that Uhuru posted?