Micro-Small Algae Remover System for Nano's: Free!

[c_k_kuehne]

This thread is already skirting on the edge of being a commercial post. You might want to PM him for that.

[johnmaloney]

Are you selling them yet? how much? I'm interested in it

 

 

SM4life - the store is down at the moment but it comes back up. $600 + I think...

 

chaeto a slow grower? see this is also a problem. Some hobbyists grow a literal 5 gallon bucket a week. (I know I get mine from a guy with a 100 reef, it produces 5 gallons like clockwork.) It will depend on light, flow, temperature, etc.... Some ATS will grow more mass than chaeto (D-man), and others the opposite (turf algae site examples).

[Phyto4life]

sm4life?? check the ip i'm in canada and i'm sure the shipping would be a killer

 

when ever someone makes them down here let me know send me a pm i'm looking for something under $500 if possible

 

no need for the black acrylic.

[johnmaloney]

i was just poking fun, i hope you didnt take offense. I dont think you can check people's ips on nr

 

it is a dry good, they are pretty easy to ship internationally. where would you put it though? Would you end up with the same surface space?

[acropora1981]

Ok this is pretty cool... Not my method of choice, but decently designed. You should try using eheim's 'double tap' valve assemblies, might make removal easier as there would be no zip ties involved.

[johnmaloney]

or a plastic clip....mod it into that frame and screen removal would be easy.

[Mr. Fosi]

What's amusing (in a cynical sort of way) is how the constructive input in this thread has come from almost everyone but Mr. Monica.

[D-Man]

If I understand correctly... your compairing two completely different types of algae. You are basically saying OMG MY PINE TREE IS GROWING BIGGER THAN THIS ROSE BUSH!!!!!11

 

My pine tree is actually growing bigger than my rose bush!!!! haha

 

i was just trying to compare the two and how there growth is different assuming that was showing how much nutrients they were pulling out, in turn showing the difference in their affectiveness. I know they are different types of algae.

[farkwar]

I have read this thread.

 

I don't understand the basis for all the animosity. Where did it come from?

 

Is it because he advocates no skimmers?

Lots of people here are skimmerless, and advocate no skimming.

 

Is it because he advocates no refugiums?

Lots of people here don't have refugiums.

 

A system to grow slime and hair algae, and then export it seems completely valid.

As valid as a refugium.

 

Lots of people here have some product that they build, and then sell.

What's the big difference?

 

The OP posts an inexpensive(downright ghetto actually) DIY algae turf scrubber, showing how they are built, how they work. Then over the course of a year and a half designs and builds a slick one to sell. Sounds like about 5 other posters here, who have done exactly the same thing.

 

His sleek black acrylic system at the end of this thread is well, to say honestly, an obvious invention. While reading this thread I was imagining a 10 gallon AGA tank which I could take down, cut the sides and bottom down to an inch thick. And then just silicone the front and back to that. Imagined putting a cheap light on the front and back. Would hold about a gallon and half of water. And then pump water through it.

 

It is just a refugium that grows slime and hair algae instead of chaetomorpha. Big freekin deal, why the woe and anguish?

 

/shrug.

[johnmaloney]

farkwar-

we get that it works, we just got annoyed with the spam marketing so we poke fun....i wouldn't call it animosity.

 

all surface area, or anything that contributes to water volume is valid for filtering. but some claims in here dont make sense and their was no dialogue other than "corrupt big skimmer" etc....it was a skimmer substitute instead of a chaeto sub etc....pages and pages of this...

[farkwar]

My pine tree is actually growing bigger than my rose bush!!!! haha

 

i was just trying to compare the two and how there growth is different assuming that was showing how much nutrients they were pulling out, in turn showing the difference in their affectiveness. I know they are different types of algae.

 

Well, you are comparing real plants to algae.

 

They are similar of course but very different.

 

Theoretically, the more simpler of algae are going to produce more mass in a given time, than a macro algae. All other things being equal.

 

That is to say, that even though they are different sizes, the rose bush is going to grow proportionately faster than the pine tree. And grass is going to grow faster than rose bushes.

[zjharva]

i would rather have algae in my tank than cheetoes, cheetoes sounds bad for the tank. i dont know about you guys tho

[johnmaloney]

what algae are you growing on the screen? species?

[SantaMonica]

Successes:

 

LethargicCoder on the MOFIB site: "A little update to [the] post I made a year ago today. I had removed the skimmer from this [33 gal] tank when I added the scrubber, and I have only done 1 water change on the tank since then. I had said "starting nitrates...let's just say they're high", that meant off the chart even after diluting with RO water. Tonight I tested the water and it looks like it's under 5ppm. All that showed up on the screen for months was brown sludge. After 7-8 months, it finally started looking green but no significant growth, but algae did start showing up around my overflow and return pipe and sump. I assume nitrates were too high to grow algae before this point. Algae is now green and growing some volume, not rubbery, and more like typical hair algae. With some water changes and better bulbs, I'm sure I could have shortened this process but I really wanted to see what it would do with nothing but [screen] cleaning. I think with the results of this, I'll be going with an algae scrubber instead of a skimmer on the 135g tank that will hopefully replace this tank soon."

 

Kidult on the scrubber site: "There are brown dense algae growing on my algaescrubber. I scrape my scrubber one time a week. I suppose that i did something wrong, because it's running for more than 2 months and PO4 is 0,34mg/l (hanna). how many time it will take to go PO4 down from 0.36 to 0? [...] One scraping for 3 days. After last advice (1 scrape for 3 days) my tank achieved PO4 0.07 (hanna) from 0.36 about 4 weeks ago. [...] Po4 is 0.02 (hanna) No3 is 0 (salifert) Thank You All!"

 

Chrissu on the scrubber site: "the heart of my ATS is a 24"x24" screen that keeps the ammonia at 0, the nitriate at 0, and my nitrates hover between 0-25 depending on how much I feed my fish. They get to eat VERY well now that I have the ATS. I've been able to eliminate my macro algae, DSB, and protein skimmer from my sump without issue (makes maintenance a breeze now)."

 

Rosenaa on the scrubber site: "My tank looks great since I set up my ATS and the corals are feeding in the water colum many times. Readings are all zero and just a little algae on the stones (due to phospate leaking out I guess)"

 

Rainer_Feyer on the RC site: "the scrubber is blowing my mind! I have really no [nuisance] algae left - very little, and hope a little bit stays forever so I don't have to separately feed the snails. Water is clear, no yellowing at all. And, still am only doing 5gal water change every 3 weeks - that's it (75g tank w/ 20g fuge which is really the scrubber)"

 

Markjack on the UR site: "[scrubber is] best thing iv'e ever done for my tank. saves you a small fortune in phos and nitrate removers"

 

Pengelli on the UR site: "I have been running [a scrubber] for about a year. I think they are brilliant. I have brilliant parameters and not a glimpse of nuisance algae."

 

Gigaah on the LR site: "Day 6 - The green [scrubber] algae really just started filling in. I also got a bit of a nitrite/nitrate spike. I had to take my HOB filter off line to get this [scrubber] running. I suspected and was ready for that. Nitrite .50, Nitrate 40. Did 10 percen water change. Day 8 Nitrite = less than .25 (not quite zero tho), Nitrate= 30, I am happy to report that all algae from the sand and glass is GONE! some on the rocks yet but I understand the phosphate rock leech thing is probably the reason. Day 14 Ammonia = 0, Nitrite = 0, Nitrate = 20. Screens are filling in better but not even half full. Day 17

Ammonia = 0, Nitrite = 0, Nitrate = 10. End of week 4: Nitrates are ZERO and my tank is stocked pretty high and was stocked pretty fast."

 

Reeffish on the SG site: "After running this [scrubber] for nearly 10 months for my 3 foot [tank], i have not look back since. It has solve my high NO3 & PO4 problem. From [over] 100 to 3 mg/L (NO3), and [over] 3 to 0.03 mg/L (PO4), both using salifert test kit; live rocks [were] covered with red algae; [now] live rocks covered with purple coralline algae; tank [had] algaes growing everywhere, to [now] a spotless one, it is really amazing. Thanks for this wonderful info. A short info to others on my setup, dedicated aquabee 1000 to supply water to my vertical screen, 8" by 10" (a bit under size). Took me 1 hours to rough up both sides of the screen. Two 24W Philips Tornado, one on each side running 18hrs a day. Cool daylight. Clean the screen every 5 days. Took me 2 months to see NO3 & PO4 results dropping. No magic here, i follow Bro SM recommendations closely and of course, patience. Good luck to all who wants to give this alternative method a try."

 

Murrman1969 on the WTF site: "Here it goes. I started with nitrates in my 180 salt tank of over 240 ppm which is a dark orange colour indicator on my test kit. Here is a picture of what the colour was. The picture does it no justice it was actually almost burgundy. So I did some research and this is what I came up with for an in-sump design and one for an external container [scrubber] design. The nitrates in my tank now are non existent."

 

Russel_P on the TR site: "Well my scrubber has finally gotten NO3 levels to zero. The only complaint I have is cleaning it. The algae (more like moss) grows in a large thick sheet that all wants to come off at once when I clean it. I bet I could pull a pound of algae of of it in one cleaning. No yellowing of water, though I do run a small H&S skimmer. The display tank went from a forest of bryopsis to no visible algae. I am building more for every rack in my shop."

 

Scottt on the MB site: "I built one for my small clownfish hatchery after reading this thread. It keeps the nitrates down (between 0 and 15) without any water changes. I use a skimmer and a filter bag also, as it is a hatchery, with tonnns of food input. I don't have any pics of my current scrubber. Its just a piece of plexi-glass at a 15 degree angle, sanded and drilled. I keep it ~10" below a 150w HPS."

 

Desertdawg on the SWF site: "I get about a handful of algae off of it every week, so far the water levels are staying almost perfect with just this scrubber and no other filtration or a skimmer running!!!"

 

Bridgeport on the scrubber site: "I set up my first turf scrubber [6 months ago] after reading through this site. Its gone through many changes since then as I did not have the right flow, lighting, or screen roughness to start. I finally adjusted all those problems and now the screen is growing thick light green algae. I did this project as an experiment and set it up on a ten gallon saltwater tank. I was plagued with red hair algae outbreaks in the ten gallon, and my 55 gallon tank. My plan was to start the algae scrubber on the ten gallon and then switch it over to the 55 gallon. I decided against this and have built another scrubber for the 55 (not in operation yet). The screen on the ATS for my 10 gallon was rather overkill. It is 11in. wide by 8in. height. Although it took a while to get it going because the bio load was very low, it is now working very well. I always clean the screen every weekend. It only takes a couple of minutes and is very easy. My ten gallon tank is now algae free(phos. near 0) and doing very well. As a matter of fact, I have been taking live rock from my 55gal which is still plagued with Red Algae, and putting them in the ten gallon to clean them off. I have done this several times and it has worked well."

 

Nrosdal on the scrubber site: "i have had an ats going for about 4-5 months and am finally happy with my design and the results that it is giving me, so i figured that i would post a thread with pics from along the way. i would love to say that my tank clearing up is only due to the ats but there are other factors (vodka dosing/more water changes) that also did contribute. But i can definately say that the ats is the biggest contributing factor in my tanks successfully staying free from green and my N and P staying within a reasonable range. [...] i was getting a little better growth of algae and doing 1-2 water changes a week, also changed bulbs to 6500k from the standard ones and put the scrubber on its own timer so that i could have it on for 18hrs as opposed to 12. over the next few weeks i saw some serious improvements in growth on my ats and noticed that the algae in the display was not growing back after my snails/crabs cleaned it. fast forward to today and the tank has been clear of algae (except for on 1 coral that the snails dont like to touch) for about a month now and even has a slight purple hue to it as opposed to green. Corals are slowly popping back out of the rock... and i have my latest version of the scrubber up and running for a week now (same screen just new lighting/box setup)."

 

Wormside on the spanish AR site, Google translated from Spanish: "From the beginning I had problems with algae in [my] tank, [i bought] a better skimmer (ASM G2) as recommended, but [it] was not so drastic a change as when I put the scrubber. I was running both for a while, about 3 months, and the algae began to disappear; the fourth month I broke my pump sedra (the skimmer) and since then the tank is with pure scrubber. The change to the tank to operate only with the scrubber is impressive; zero abolutamente algae in the display anything! Another thing [] is that now only change the water every month, and now it takes 2 months without water change, and everything perfect. Add course trace elements, Strontium and Molybdenum, Iodine, every week or 15 days , BioDigest Bioptima and in principle every 15 days, but now, every month. I saved a good salt water changes, and unlike [with] the skimmer, I have no saltwater replace []. Also saves energy because the Sedra I used 35w or something and I also heat the water, [but without skimmer] when the quite, low temperature 1 or 2 degrees []. Well many things are good [] we brought the scrubber, is incredible as simple as effective."

 

Labperck on the Spanish AR site, translated: "my tank is 8 months without a skimmer and water changes only, with the algal and some charcoal, and going very well my PO4 levels 0 and no3 to 0"

 

Lugac on the spanish AR site, translated: "After 2 months of use to me is working great, nitrates had stalled at 15 mg/l and sometimes climbed to 25 mg/l, and install the [scrubber] after that I went down to 10 mg/L, after a 5 mg/L and Last weekend are at 2 mg/L, I'm on the verge of leaving them to zero. As for phosphates, had at 0.1 mg/l and install the [scrubber] as quickly dropped to .03 mg/L."

 

Antonioalvarez on the spanish AR site, translated: "After 15 years of struggling with high phosphates and nitrates in the clouds, alone in my aquarium fish, I read about the algae scrubber [] and I decided to build it following the instructions:

 

Oct 24 2009: Build Algal Scrubber; pipe 3/4 inch, screen 30x40cm, pump 840 Gal/H and a pair of 55-watt bulbs 6500K savers. Water values for the time:

 

NH4, NH3 = 0

NO2= 0

NO3= 20 mg/l

PO4= 0.1

 

Oct 26 2009: The first and second day started sprouting weeds.

 

Nov 1 2009: Significant growth was observed.

 

Nov 2 2009: First harvest only one side of the screen.

 

Nov 9 2009: We measured parameters:

 

NH4, NH3 = 0

dNO2= 0

NO3= 20 mg/l

PO4= 0.05

 

Half Phosphates, Nitrates remain.

 

Nov 25 2009: Measured parameters remain the same, is harvested the screen. Bio-Balls delete, delete, mechanical filters, remove sand substrate and 25% water change. Measured parameters:

 

NH4 NH3 = 0

NO2= 0

NO3= 10mg/l

PO4= 0.25

 

The measures gave results.

 

Dec 1 2009: I introduce to my tank live rock cured for 30 days previously. Measured parameters:

 

NH4= 0

NO2= 0

NO3= 7.5 mg/l

PO4= 0.25

 

Dec 9 2009: It is harvested and measured parameters:

 

NH4 NH3 = 0

NO2= 0

NO3= 0 mg/l

PO4= 0

PH= 8

Temp= 25-26

 

TOTAL HAPPINESS!!! and remains so values.

[Mr. Fosi]

TOTAL HAPPINESS!!!

[SantaMonica]

Here are some videos of the scrubber running:

 

Flow example, looking from the side with one of the lights removed:

 

Flow example, looking from the top:

 

Demonstration of noise:

 

Demonstration of darkness:

[johnmaloney]

hi sm, where does your new prototype go? looks cool though and the box seems sturdy....

[c_k_kuehne]

If we posted all the skimmer only success stories you would grow old reading this thread.

[masterbuilder]

Hey... I have no problem with the scrubber, but its a vendor, marketing their product in the general forum that bugs me a little. IMO...you should pay up and get your own sub-forum...santamonica

[mbarton2010]

Hey... I have no problem with the scrubber, but its a vendor, marketing their product in the general forum that bugs me a little. IMO...you should pay up and get your own sub-forum...santamonica

+3216755132

[Aristotle]

Apologies for the bump.

 

I'm a n00b. In fact, I'm not even a n00b yet because; despite more than 2 years of researching fish and corals; I don't actually own a tank yet. That's probably going to change this year though, so I've stepped up my research. I've read about the ATS in passing before, but recently it has come to my attention as a potentially more natural method of filtration.

 

Then I sat here and read this thread until 4:00am and my perception of what seemed like a solid method of filtration has become clouded as I can't really tell anymore if people are railing against 'Mr. Monica' or the the ATS, and whether popular opinion even matters.

 

It seems that some of the threads I've read over the past week or so have indicated that the slime algae on the screens eventually give way to large three-dimensional clumps of filamentous algae. Eric Borneman has said that turf algae can be a better exporter than the macro algae used in most refugia. He also seems to be saying that the ATS could be used in place of (or along side of, in the right situation) traditional skimming. He indicates the same freshwater cleaning that SM talks about, for the same purpose of reducing pod populations on the screen so the algae can grow, that seems to be laughed at here.

 

Here is the thread where I'm getting that information, though it is several years old. Has this all since been discredited?

 

I don't care about misquoted articles, or a hobyist who may have a poor grasp of the real science behind why what he is doing is working... As a n00b, I just want to know: Is the ATS a valid alternative to refugia+skimmer in some circumstances, or is it not?

[farkwar]

Hey... I have no problem with the scrubber, but its a vendor, marketing their product in the general forum that bugs me a little. IMO...you should pay up and get your own sub-forum...santamonica

 

I think it is a 3 year evolution of a DIY light bulb, screen, and a bucket to a (apparently) soon to be commercially available sleek version of the same exact thing.

 

He has one thread, and he keeps all of his posts here in this thread. It's not like he's spamming or trolling.

 

I don't see you or anyone else saying the same thing of any other poster here who has a product, or is selling a product. I don't see you saying anything negative about vendors who promote their products or sites in any and every related thread. Nor do I see a need either.

 

I'm sure that when he has some capital, and has production, that he will see the benefit to paying for sponsored ads and such, just like any other business person here. Including the admin of NR. This whole site is covered in ads. Top to bottom.

 

He knows how many people visit here. He knows that most of them are qualified buyers. But this SM100 is not for a Nano tank, though. Too large. You know that, he knows that. I am sure he is designing a smaller nano reefable version right now. I'm sure he is talking to Chinese people right now about producing this for a much better cost. The SM100 is obviously for a big tank, or at least bigger than 40 gallon.

 

I just don't understand, yet, why some of you cut every other commercial poster slack, but not this one. As a person who is growing hair algae on my rocks right now, the idea of growing it instead in a separate tank, that can be removed easier than how I remove it now makes intuitive sense. If I were working with a 125 or 140g system, this would look very attractive to me.

[Mr. Fosi]

I just don't understand, yet, why some of you cut every other commercial poster slack, but not this one.

 

Because he's dishonest and ignorant.

 

This guy misrepresents others' work and he makes claims that he can't/won't substantiate.

 

- Commercial posters like inTank and Nanotuners/customs never mis-represent anyone else's work.

- They don't tell people that their products do things that they don't.

- They don't try to weasel out of paying sponsor fees to sell their products.

- They don't act like they aren't selling something.

- They don't run away from questions, even hard questions, regarding if/how their products work.

 

Of course, this overlooks his various digs at the "skimmer industry" and how "they" are behind all the "persecution" he's endured.

 

It seems to me that that people who claim to have read this thread and don't come away with why Mr. Monica is taking hits must have been skipping over a lot of posts by his critics. I'm not the only person who's taken issue with his repeated mis-use of big hobby names. Heck, even HecticD came out of the 'Lounge to post in here; that's when you know it's egregious.

[Markushka]

Is the ATS a valid alternative to refugia+skimmer in some circumstances, or is it not?

 

In short, yes.

 

I used mr. monica's system for 6 months on my tank and it worked well. I did not keep up with the weekly cleanings and scrapings but it did keep my nitrates down. It wasn't very effective at reducing GHA in my display and it did trap detritus but I guess if I did the weekly maintenance it would have been better. In addition I wasn't using a skimmer or doing water changes, but then again I did not have SPS.

 

I just pulled the ATS for a few reasons

- I put chaeto in the sump and raised the water levels

- The screen assembly was restricting my overflow and I doubled the return so I needed more flow

- I added SPS

- I will be adding a skimmer

 

My biggest problem with the screen was the great amount of maintenance and as a college student working part time, i just didn't have time for it. Another thing is the turf algae that is supposed to succeed the GHA needs to be introduced into the system more often than not, and my screen was covered in GHA, cyano, and maybe even bryopsis.

 

would I do another screen? on a Fowlr or non-sps system I would if I had the space.

 

My recommendation to you: give it a shot, make up your own mind about it. It does work and you shouldn't be putting SPS in right away so you'll have time to experiment. plus its a cheap and easy DIY.

[SantaMonica]

Santa Monica 100 growth pics for first 7 days:

 

No seeding. Screen is one layer of roughed up playsic canvas, never used before:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Videos:

 

Front Side:

 

Back Side:

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