SantaMonica

Micro-Small Algae Remover System for Nano's: Free!

613 posts in this topic

Please help me not burn down my house and if I achieve this with your help I will give you the key on how to keep alive once hard to keep coral/pods/sponges/worms and make them easy for you to keep alive please help?

 

its for the better of the hobby we all know that skimmer's skim food so please help lets set aside are differences for the better of the hobby?

Edited by Phyto4life

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hows it free? i have to buy the screen and light?

 

I see your point but what I think he meant is that his advice is free but....

 

I am here along with the multiple biologist's to help you achieve this safely what is your question ?

 

because we are here to make sure no one gets steered in the wrong direction but we also don't take full responsibility but I will give you my word that if you set this up properly you will reduce nitrate/phosphate in a safe way we are here to help you please ask question's as you go along because there will be 100's of people to help and confirm?

Edited by Phyto4life

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The algae that you linked as the algae you want to have is not like what I have seen in even the most poorly maintained tanks. I suspect that it isn't common since you don't see it on many of these setups.

 

You will certainly get algae on the screen and it may work for you, but if you want a specific sort, you will want to pre-plant it to be sure you get it.

 

 

Don't mean to be hard headed but how do I acquire this turf algae? is it hair algae? or a specially named algae that grows in partial water/air etc?

 

or just by chance under healthy normal condition's?

 

or not at all and should not grow under no circumstances?

 

just asking because I'm planning on growing it under normal condition's and I'm assuming it is the same stuff that grow's on my glass in the long run over multiple week's without scrapping?

 

this is my last question along with the drain in my ATS

Edited by Phyto4life

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
more maintenance is welcomed this way you can feed and feed alot without worrying about lack of organics or increase in inorganics

 

I personally want as little maintenance as possible so I have more time to enjoy the tank instead of always working on the tank.

 

 

Please help me not burn down my house and if I achieve this with your help I will give you the key on how to keep alive once hard to keep coral/pods/sponges/worms and make them easy for you to keep alive please help?

 

So we have to help you NOT burn down your house and if we do that, only then you will give us your key to success. I thought your posts was to try and help people succeed --- if that is true give us your key to success now. I am sure if other people find your "key" of value they would be more then willing to help.

 

 

I see your point but what I think he meant is that his advice is free but....

 

I am here along with the multiple biologist's to help you achieve this safely what is your question ?

 

because we are here to make sure no one gets steered in the wrong direction but we also don't take full responsibility but I will give you my word that if you set this up properly you will reduce nitrate/phosphate in a safe way we are here to help you please ask question's as you go along because there will be 100's of people to help and confirm?

 

Seems like you are the one asking the questions. I don't even see where you have done the math in flow rates and bulkheads and gallons etc....

 

And why are you feeding a tank "mass doses of phytoplankton" anyway ?? I get the idea of feeding but probably the number one reason why people have problems in their aquariums if not outright failure is excessive feeding. It only leads to excessive nutrients that eventually harm your system.

 

Making a super filter to compensate for overfeeding seems like somebody going on a diet so they can stuff their gut all day long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know where you find the turf-like algae I have seen linked as an example of the ideal.

 

You can run it and see if you get the kind of algae you want, but from what I have seen, people generally get slimy microalgal mats instead of the turf-type.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO i would rather run a refugium, i liek looking at the little critters :happy:

& more volume in the water colum means better water quality overall.

 

this would work best in picos where space is a problem. -_-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I personally want as little maintenance as possible so I have more time to enjoy the tank instead of always working on the tank.

 

 

 

 

So we have to help you NOT burn down your house and if we do that, only then you will give us your key to success. I thought your posts was to try and help people succeed --- if that is true give us your key to success now. I am sure if other people find your "key" of value they would be more then willing to help.

 

 

 

 

Seems like you are the one asking the questions. I don't even see where you have done the math in flow rates and bulkheads and gallons etc....

 

And why are you feeding a tank "mass doses of phytoplankton" anyway ?? I get the idea of feeding but probably the number one reason why people have problems in their aquariums if not outright failure is excessive feeding. It only leads to excessive nutrients that eventually harm your system.

 

Making a super filter to compensate for overfeeding seems like somebody going on a diet so they can stuff their gut all day long.

 

 

That is the part you don't understand you don't understand on how much phyto a tank can consume nor do you understand on how little inorganics phyto gives off you like other's are left in the past and are chasing the acedemic's instead of comming to the realist aproach

 

IMO i would rather run a refugium, i liek looking at the little critters :happy:

& more volume in the water colum means better water quality overall.

 

this would work best in picos where space is a problem. -_-

 

I see your point and that is cool

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is the part you don't understand you don't understand on how much phyto a tank can consume nor do you understand on how little inorganics phyto gives off you like other's are left in the past and are chasing the acedemic's instead of comming to the realist aproach

 

 

I have been watching this crazy thread for some time now and have tried to stay out of it .............................

 

Why "O" Why did I let myself get sucked into this ??

 

:angry: <-- at myself

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(c_k_kuehne let me know when you can contribute to the advancement of closed system's? what experiences/experiments have you had/done for the benefit of the reef community?

 

 

SO BACK ONTO HOW DO WE TRASH THIS THREAD NICE JOB WHEN I WAS ASKING SERIOUS QUESTION'S

 

 

WHERE DID YOU COME FROM ARE YOU THE COOLER LOL

 

I have to much to type lets take this to the lounge (c_k_kuehne regarding phyto and ATS only you?

Edited by Phyto4life

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people don't even care about dendro's or other hard to keep coral's so what.

 

at least I've like other's been been studying and experimenting

 

we will let you know when we find a way to keep organics in the system while taking out inorganics so we can benifit the health of hard to keep coral's while you keep dosing that vodka or over doing that protein skimmer everything is cool we will ignore that hard to keep coral/sponge/copepod/worm etc

 

so we can have tank of the month or be able to say you are awesome you know everything

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Please help me not burn down my house and if I achieve this with your help I will give you the key on how to keep alive once hard to keep coral/pods/sponges/worms and make them easy for you to keep alive please help

 

:haha:

Edited by HecticDialectics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:haha:

 

 

:o

 

NO SURPISE

Edited by Phyto4life

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just reading one of the links posted by someone earlier.

 

http://www.marineaquariumsa.com/featuredsystems/Aug2009/

 

Particularly the section on Filtration. He uses a combination of methods to maintain the tank. It looks pretty healthy to me.

 

I'm new to the reef world, but I've been a science geek for a long time. So understanding how your system stays alive (nitrogen cycle, food chain, oxygen cycle, etc.) is 90% of this hobby. 10% is knowing the methods of maintenance. People will make mistakes, and no two systems are alike. It's all one big science experiment.

 

In the end, we are ALL slowly killing organisms in your tanks, simply because it isn't a natural environment for them to be in, just some happen to reproduce a bit on their way out.

 

What I don't get is why people flame so much here for someone suggesting an idea??? Never mind the science behind it, which is correct (the effectiveness is in question).

 

Maybe Santa Monica's idea was a little sophomoric, and naive, but you have to give them credit for thinking, and wanted to apply something that they saw out there to their system.

 

Instead of a discussion on how this method could make it better for some people that don't have hundreds of dollars to sink into skimmers, media reactors and the like; it has turned into a noob bashfest.

 

Kind of childish, and frankly, it disappoints me. A lot of people that posted in response to this forum I respect for their knowledge, and wouldn't expect that reaction.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DoubleD... you know this forum is PACKED with people who successfully do not use skimmers, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[Mudfish] uses a combination of methods to maintain the tank. It looks pretty healthy to me.

 

Yes, and I've highlighted the key phrase here. One of the issues that I, and so many others have with Mr. Monica is that he claims his cyano farms are a miracle, one-stop answer for all your "filtration" needs.

 

Since you followed this thread from the beginning, you know that many of us haven't ridiculed him for "thinking" or "applying an idea he saw out there". Many of us, myself included, have stated that the idea of a turf scrubber can work in theory and if applied as part of a comprehensive nutrient cycling/removal system may be beneficial.

 

The real problem isn't Mr. Monica's obvious ignorance of the mechanisms or terminology... These are just side-issues. The real problems are 1) the blatant and unrepentant misrepresentation of other's work and 2) his unwillingness to actually engage in dialog.

 

Since you have read all the copypasta he has injected into this thread, I am sure you see how he completely mis-characterizes the findings of legitimate experimentalists and theorists to support his outlandish claims. You have also seen how when asked a question for which he doesn't know the answer, instead of acknowledging both the question and questioner, then admitting his ignorance, he justs ignores people and refuses to answer anything else they say.

 

As both a teacher and student, I know what it's like to be asked a question to which I should know the answer but don't. The proper response in such a situation isn't to ignore the questioner and accuse them of persecuting you. It also isn't to tell a bold-faced lie then go dig up several paragraphs of work done by a well-known name in the hobby that is unrelated to the question and paste it, along with a bracketed mis-characterization, as support for your lie. The proper response is to say, "I don't know", or "I'm not sure", then go and do your best to find the answer.

 

Myself and others in this thread have expressed concern that Mr. Monica's behavior isn't that of a contentious hobbyist that is trying to disseminate useful info but rather that of a person stumping hard for a product they sell. This concern has some basis in fact since Mr. Monica has several times offered to sell people equipment in some of this "informative" posts.

 

I haven't even mentioned his contradictory statements have I? For example: He correctly states that an alge-screen system will increase the amount of small benthic inverts ("pods"). However, he goes on to say in one post that these animals need to be removed from the system as a means of nutrient export, then turns around several pages later and claims that they should instead be left as a food source for livestock in the display. Which one is true? Now, I can imagine arguments to support both claims but Mr. Monica not only fails to furnish them but continues on following pages to make these contradictory claims willy-nilly and ignore people who ask him to clarify. You can't claim that 1+1=2 in one place, then blithely claim elsewhere that 1+1=5 and reasonably expect not to be questioned about it.

 

What I don't get is why people flame so much here for someone suggesting an idea??? Never mind the science behind it, which is correct (the effectiveness is in question).

 

You've bought into Mr. Monica's pity party, I'm afraid.

 

The thread didn't start in flames, it started in reasonable requests to clarify claims and furnish evidence. He is free to suggest any idea he wants, as evidenced by 22 pages of travesty, but if he refuses to engage in discussion or furnish photographic evidence of his wild claims, he'll do little to persuade those of us who insist on evidence.

 

Never mind the science behind it, which is correct (the effectiveness is in question).

 

On the contrary, Mr. Monica has made a great many claims about the science behind his version of these tools. Many of his critics, myself included, have admitted that these systems can be useful. The problem is that very few of the claims are supported by any credible source. He also deliberately misrepresents the science (peer-reviewed or not) of others. We who have criticized him have done so on very specific points regarding claims that he makes that are neither reasonable nor supported by the body of legitimate science.

 

Of course some, like me, have also taken the opportunity to ridicule him more openly. This is done to illustrate the error of his claims and his methods as well as to amuse ourselves and others.

 

As you saw in the responses to Phyto4life's recent posts, many here are willing to help those who want to try these things out. What we will not do is support the false and misleading claims a person like Mr. Monica who apparently doesn't care who's house he burns down as long as he can sell them some roughed-up plastic screening first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fosi has the best E-Biatch Slap in existence.
Edited by DHaut

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must have missed the posts where he was openly "selling" snake oil.

 

I was reading about the science behind it, trying to cut through all the childish dribble.

 

i.e.:

 

(^^^^^^^^ The comment above this one.)

 

Since you have stated that it's a worthwhile concept, minus the personality that started this thread, why not actually have a ATS thread? So we can stop resurrecting this garbage.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

And yes, I know this forum is packed with tons of people that don't use skimmers and are successful.

 

I'm a fan of KISS, and if anything, nature does a better job then me.

 

I've yet to see a reef dose itself with vodka.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... why not actually have a ATS thread? So we can stop resurrecting this garbage.

 

Go for it. I could see a place for it in the biological filtration forum.

 

I've yet to see a reef dose itself with vodka.

 

Only the really depressed ones do this. :lol:

 

I am sad to say that I think Mr. Monica will continue his drive-by copypasta posts so this thread is unlikely to remain dorment for long. So long as he continues his dishonesty and dissemination of confusion, people will post here to refute his claims. -_-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr. Fosi FTW again! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hehe, I should post some macro shots of the tank in my avatar. The rocks are absolutely carpeted in sponges, tubeworms, micro brittle stars, newly settled Tubastrea polyps, etc. The rocks look "fuzzy" from the brittle star arms there are so many of them. All in a tank with an enormous downdraft skimmer and no turf algae.

 

This whole line of logic that running a skimmer means a sterile tank absolutely baffles me. Let's see the photos of your tank to prove your method, otherwise it is all hot air...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i cant believe this thread is still around :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i cant believe this thread is still around :lol:

 

That's what I'm saying, we should carefully extract any "useful" info and start a real ATS thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well he isnt breaking any rules so unfortunately they cant close it :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is all pretty simple actually.

 

Look at Santimontica's ATS tank:

 

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Tank.htm

 

Now look at the 100's of NR's tanks who don't use an ATS:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showforum=3

 

The conclusion: who gives a sh*t about your dumb ATS.

 

/thread

 

Also, anyone who posts pages and pages of crap from Borneman is a moron regardless of the subject at hand. Then again...Borneman is pretty talented in the pseudoscience department, so I see why you two see eye to eye.

Edited by lgreen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.