smoknta Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Well my Clown and Firefish started showing signs of Ich last Wednesday morning. I was going out of town on Thursday morning, so I went to our local Saltwater fish store and got there opinion. The very Knowledgeable owner said he would treat them and feed them while I was gone. Well I tried everything to catch them and had no success. Well they did pretty good over the weekend while I was gone. They started to look better on Monday, but Tuesday they looked worse. I went and got a small 10gal with HOB filter and set it up last night. I made some fresh saltwater and added two gallons of my tank water today. Well I had to tear the whole tank apart just to catch these guys. I finally did and now they are in the Hospital tank and are doing well. The both ate when I fed them and are following each other around the tank. I plan on leaving the DT with no fish for a couple of weeks. How should I treat my fish in the QT? Should I go with Copper? That is what the local Saltwater expert suggested. Link to comment
allenspidey Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I used copper when I had my QT set up. Seemed to work fine. They should remain in the QT for about a month or so. Also feed with garlic soaked food. It will boost their ammune systems and should allow for healing. Remove any carbon from the HOB. Link to comment
Urchinhead Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Formalin dips 1ml to 1L of water for 5 minutes once every two days for a week. It kills everything. Barring that copper based meds. Also your main tank will have to be fallow (no fish) for six weeks in order to kill off all of the ich. Just keep up on 10% water changes in the hospital tank Link to comment
smoknta Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Well when I got home from work this morning, my clownfish looked horrible. He had stuff all over him, and was swimming near the top and was facing up. He was breathing very hard. An hour after I was home, he died. The Firefish had like one small white dot on him, but was fine. I tested the water, and everything looked good except for the Nitrites were up to 0.25ppm. I dont know where that came from. I took the Firefish out and took him back to the store where I bought him. They are going to dose him and keep him till I can get my QT back in line. So here is the plan. LFS is going to dose the Firefish for Ich and keep him for at least a week. I want to get my QT tank back up to par. Do I need to worry about it having Ich in it, since I put some of the tank water in it? How long would it take for it to die off? Or should I dump it and start over? I want to quarantine the Firefish for a few more weeks once I get him back to make sure my DT is through the Ich cycle. Link to comment
oceanhighz Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 It's likely that no matter what you do your quarantine system will end up with ich. Most (more than likely all) system have ich in them, and the majority of the time it does not affect the fish with healthy immune systems. If you start your tank with all fresh saltwater, initially it will not have any of the parasite in it, however if you ever add water from your system or when you add a sick fish, there is a good chance you will also introduce ich. Now, if you treat the tank, it will disappear again, because you will have killed it. Personally, next time, I would try Ruby Reef Kick Ich. I had one bout of ich in my tank, and there is no way I am going to catch my fish without hours of trying and even more stress to the fish which may lead to a further demise. The kick ich got rid of it, and it's reef safe. I would also try feeding with a fish food that is garlic enriched (I personally use Spectrum w/ Thera A+). Hope all of this helps, if you have any questions feel free to ask. Brandon Link to comment
smoknta Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Well thanks for the replies. I actually did not have a chance to even treat them in the QT. I was going to today, but they did not make it that long. My LFS where I bought the Firefish is going to treat him, so he will be Ich free. And I am going to leave my DT host free for awhile so it will die off. I am just worried that my QT tank now has Ich. How long can Ich live with nothing in the tank. All I have is a 10gal with a HOB filter with a sponge in it and a couple of PVC pipes. Is there a way I can kill the Ich in this tank quickly, possibly by raising the temp or lowering the salinity? Or should I dump it, clean it, and refill it? Link to comment
archx Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I had ich on some fish in my 6 gallon before and I raised the temperature to 85+ degrees gradually for a week and the ich disappeared Link to comment
SeeDemTails Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Wow there are so many things wrong with this thread and the advice in it I dont even know where to start, and since the fish is dead, I guess it doesnt matter! 1. QTing the fish is why it died. 2. You will always have ich in your tank, as long as you have fish. Healthy fish in clean water NEVER die from ich unless other issues complicate the problem. Ich is like a cold to fish, I have put fish covered in ich in my display tank, and watched them recover in a week, and none of the other fish ever get ich. Also, you should tell the guys at your LFS that clownfish are hyper sensitive to copper since they are scaless fish and you should never treat them(or any other fish IMO) that way. Solve you future ich problems, make sure you have good water quality, and stable temps in your tank, and feed a wide variety of good food. Link to comment
abe Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Wow there are so many things wrong with this thread and the advice in it I dont even know where to start, and since the fish is dead, I guess it doesnt matter! 1. QTing the fish is why it died. 2. You will always have ich in your tank, as long as you have fish. Healthy fish in clean water NEVER die from ich unless other issues complicate the problem. Ich is like a cold to fish, I have put fish covered in ich in my display tank, and watched them recover in a week, and none of the other fish ever get ich. Also, you should tell the guys at your LFS that clownfish are hyper sensitive to copper since they are scaless fish and you should never treat them(or any other fish IMO) that way. Solve you future ich problems, make sure you have good water quality, and stable temps in your tank, and feed a wide variety of good food. that's how i get rid of ich in my tank... the natural way. it even worked with brookinella (sounds like a cruel experiment, but the clown got over the brookinella and has cool scars to show his lady) you pretty much just have to take care of the fish to keep it disease free. Link to comment
smoknta Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Wow there are so many things wrong with this thread and the advice in it I dont even know where to start, and since the fish is dead, I guess it doesnt matter! 1. QTing the fish is why it died. 2. You will always have ich in your tank, as long as you have fish. Healthy fish in clean water NEVER die from ich unless other issues complicate the problem. Ich is like a cold to fish, I have put fish covered in ich in my display tank, and watched them recover in a week, and none of the other fish ever get ich. Also, you should tell the guys at your LFS that clownfish are hyper sensitive to copper since they are scaless fish and you should never treat them(or any other fish IMO) that way. Solve you future ich problems, make sure you have good water quality, and stable temps in your tank, and feed a wide variety of good food. I do agree that the QTing led to the demise of the clownfish. But leaving them in the tank was not working. I could not and still have not found anything wrong with water quality. I think temps stay pretty stable, only a 2-2.5 degree swing in 16hrs. And I feed two different kinds of food. I could not just watch them get worse by the day. But I'm not sure what went wrong with my QT tank. Somehow the Nitrite level went up. The firefish was fine with it, but it added to the already bad Ich on the clown and he died. My LFS has my Firefish in a Hospital tank till I can get my QT lined out and I'll QT him from the DT for a couple of weeks. Link to comment
SeeDemTails Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 The best thing you can do for your fish is to figure out what is wrong with your display and get him back in a cycled tank. There is something wrong with your tank, and since it is only a few months old, my guess is that you have high nitrates in your display whether you know it or not, which stressed the fish and caused them to get ich. You need to add more flow and do some water changes and get your fish back in your tank. ALSO........if your LFS used copper in the tank with your firefish, you have to catch him with your hands or a net, wet hands are gentler IMO, and make sure none of the water he is in makes it into your reef, if you want to keep corals. What type of test kits are you using, what are your nitrate levels? Ditch the QT tank, it really is usless. The nitrite levels were high because you got a tank, put some water in it, and threw in the fish when it was totally uncycled, just like any other new tank. This is a great way to kill any fish, you cant just set a tank up in days and throw fish in it. Link to comment
smoknta Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Well I appreciate the replies. I am using an API test kit. I test at least every 3 or 4 days. I have seen no Ammonia, Nitrites, and no measurable Nitrates since the cycle. I'm running 16lbs of live rock about 15lbs of live sand, and filter floss in chamber 1. I keep the SG around 1.025. My next purchase will be a refractometer. So about the QT tank. Explain to me how water has to cycle? I though a tank will only cycle is live rock and sand is added. How will water get ammonia in it just by sitting? I understand that uneaten food and fish waste will add ammonia and nitrites, but wont water changes be enough to get rid of these. I still cant understand where the nitrites in my QT came from. I only fed once and a small amount, and the fish were only in the tank less than 24hrs. I measured 0.25ppm of Nitrites, so I pulled them out. This level still will not go down even with several water changes. Link to comment
SeeDemTails Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 A brand new tank has no denitrifying bacteria living in it, and the bacteria lives on surfaces like LR, glass, and sand, not water. SO even if you took water out of your display, it would only be good for the fish for a small amount of time. When you added the fish, they started putting off waste that had no where to go, nothing was removing it, and the clown then died from nitrite poisoning, not ich You have it backwards, if you were to take a cured piece of LR and sand out of a mature, healthy tank, you could start a small tank with NO cycle....BECAUSE, the bacteria will be present on the LR and start to filter the water immediatley. The only time LR and sand cause a cycle, is when it is dry shipped and has die off, or the sand is fresh out of a bag(not really live). But no matter how you do it, even with LR almost no tanks are ready for fish overnight. Remove the filter floss asap, it can cause nasty water quite easily Link to comment
smoknta Posted June 24, 2008 Author Share Posted June 24, 2008 Well I did a water change on the DT tank tonight and put that water in the QT tank. I also put a piece of cured LR in the QT also. Hopefully this will bring down the Nitrite level. I like using the filter floss better than a sponge. I change it every couple of days. Link to comment
SeeDemTails Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 I dont use floss or sponges in my tanks. The less stuff you have to change out the more stable your tank becomes. Unless you are using it as a bubble trap, it isnt really making your water any clearer or cleaner. Link to comment
smoknta Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 I dont use floss or sponges in my tanks. The less stuff you have to change out the more stable your tank becomes. Unless you are using it as a bubble trap, it isnt really making your water any clearer or cleaner. It sure does look like it is pulling a lot of stuff out. You use skimmers in your tanks correct? I really dont have room or the money for a skimmer right now. What would you suggest I use? Link to comment
smoknta Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 Water changes. I do a water change once a week, usually around 2 gals. I took the filter floss out tonight and the water looks a lot cloudier. The floss seems to just pull out some of the floating debris and clean the clarity of the water up a bit. I also added some Macro algea to the 2nd chamber tonight. I added some lights to the back of the tank this morning. Link to comment
SeeDemTails Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Give it a day to settle, you shouldnt have floating detritus, maybe micro bubbles. Do a little bigger changes, maybe 3 gal. Link to comment
smoknta Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 Give it a day to settle, you shouldnt have floating detritus, maybe micro bubbles. Do a little bigger changes, maybe 3 gal. Well I pulled the floss out, and it just takes a little longer for things to settle after being stirred up, but the water still gets pretty clear. I also added some Chaeto to the middle chamber the other day. So right now that is all I am running, just the Chaeto. Link to comment
SeeDemTails Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Good, your tank is almost berlin now. Just sit back and watch it run. Link to comment
smoknta Posted June 29, 2008 Author Share Posted June 29, 2008 Good, your tank is almost berlin now. Just sit back and watch it run. So do you think I'm on the right track? I've been reading alot lately and you always talk about having good quality water. How can I tell if my tank water is truly doing well? Do you mean parameters such as Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, Alk, phosphates...etc. Or something else? Link to comment
SeeDemTails Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 I do think you are on the right track, keep your tank as simple as possible, and do water changes religiously, dose ca/alk as needed, and you will have a great water quality in no time. Basically you have two systems to monitor in your water parameters.......ca/alk/mg consumption and NO3 waste production. Your corals are the best indicator of how good your water quality is! Link to comment
smoknta Posted June 29, 2008 Author Share Posted June 29, 2008 I do think you are on the right track, keep your tank as simple as possible, and do water changes religiously, dose ca/alk as needed, and you will have a great water quality in no time. Basically you have two systems to monitor in your water parameters.......ca/alk/mg consumption and NO3 waste production. Your corals are the best indicator of how good your water quality is! Well I really appreciate the help you are giving me. I had my water tested at the LFS last week, I think this store is pretty good, the specialize in nothing but saltwater. I found that my Hydrometer is way off, so a Refractometer is my next purchase. My SG was way high, so I'm lower that down over the next week. I also found my Alk at 2.5 and Cal at 450, neither of which I test at home right now. I got some stuff to dose to raise my Alk and am dosing lightly and will get a test done the first of the week. Link to comment
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