I think I murdered my Live rock :(

[clifford513]

It's been suggested as long as I have been in the hobby. I would like to know as well.

[MrAnderson]

if i had to guess, i would think that no one really knew for sure how long it would take for the gas to equilibrate, so they suggested 24hrs because it seemed long enough. it obviously can't HURT.

[Izzue]

YOU can smell the urea in the almost all saltmixs...this is a product of breakdown!!!

 

O2 the crap out of it 24 to 2 weeks if need be...Im lazy like that sometimes.

 

Now your urea is O plugged...no worrie of CO2 blast...or Ph crap.

 

It really does help to mix and O2 for at least 24 hours

 

Izzue

[Chutsk10]

I have to agree with Bumoco on this one. . . It appears to me that the majority of topics I have read through turn into some hot-headed debate about who is right about an aspect of this hobby which generally has nothign to do with the OP's question. Although it could be informative in some cases, in others it is just 2 people too stuck up to admit they are wrong.

[lgreen]

I have to agree with Bumoco on this one. . . It appears to me that the majority of topics I have read through turn into some hot-headed debate about who is right about an aspect of this hobby which generally has nothign to do with the OP's question. Although it could be informative in some cases, in others it is just 2 people too stuck up to admit they are wrong.

 

This has nothing to do w/ "who" is right, but rather "what" is right. And who is wrong here or stuck up? Did you need a 24 hour time out too?

 

Just ignore us science folk. We get into it all the time. It's what we do.

[clifford513]

Quality advice comes at a cost

[MrAnderson]

YOU can smell the urea in the almost all saltmixs...this is a product of breakdown!!!

 

O2 the crap out of it 24 to 2 weeks if need be...Im lazy like that sometimes.

 

Now your urea is O plugged...no worrie of CO2 blast...or Ph crap.

 

It really does help to mix and O2 for at least 24 hours

 

Izzue

 

urea = ammonia + CO2. so in salt mix without CO2, it's ammonia.

 

you're saying that salt mixes come WITH ammonia?

 

...

 

can you cite something for me? i find that hard to believe.

[Mr. Fosi]

It's cool 'green.

 

I also agree that there could be something to the 24h recommendation... I'll email IO about it. My Oceanic bag says to "briefly" mix the water while you add the salt.

 

Izzue: Urea in salt mixes?

[Mr. Fosi]

Pretty fricken quick response from instantocean.com!

 

I sent the original email to info at instantocean.com and I got a response back in under 10 min from Bob! Way to go Bob!

 

From: Aquarium Systems Tech <info@aquariumsystems.com>

To: Isaac <****@gmail.com>

Date: Nov 12, 2007 3:13 PM

Subject: RE: How long to mix the salt?

 

Mr. ****, If the newly mixed seawater is a clear solution and the pH is in a normal range (8.0-8.4) there should be no problem in using it immediately, particularly if it is being used for a percentage water exchange. If it is new set up and there is considerable livestock to be added I might be more inclined to aerate the seawater for about 24hrs to insure oxygen-carbon dioxide equilibrium.

 

Thank you,

 

Bob

 

 

 

From: Isaac <****@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 3:08 PM

To: Aquarium Systems Tech

Subject: How long to mix the salt?

 

 

Hi.

 

I have a 20g reef tank and I am interested in how long you recommend newly mixed salt water should mix (or stand) before it is added to the tank?

 

I have been told that newly mixed water should not be used for water changes and I wonder if you (IO) agree?

 

--

Isaac M. H.

 

So they do give the safe answer of aerating for 24h. My reply email will be "Why 24h?".

[clifford513]

That was quick!

[Mr. Fosi]

Darn quick! They aren't joking when they say "Instant Answers".

 

I just shot off a follow-up email.

 

From: Isaac <****@gmail.com>

To: Aquarium Systems Tech <info@aquariumsystems.com>,

Date: Nov 12, 2007 3:27 PM

Subject: Re: How long to mix the salt?

 

Wow! Thank you for the very fast answer!

 

I have one more question: Why 24 hours?

 

I have heard this 24h recommendation from some people while others claim that, if the water is agitated, gases equilibrate in seawater within just a few minutes.

 

You guys have been making artificial salt mixtures for a long time so your company would be in the best position to explain the reasoning behind the 24h recommendation.

 

Many thanks!

[Chutsk10]

Sure I'll take a time out too. . . It's not like this thread has been helping me. . .

 

Would it have been more appropriate for someone to have started a new thread on "A Scientific Discussion on How Long to Mix Water Ahead of Adding it to Your Tank"

 

Sorry to interrupt. . . Carry on.

[holdorf333]

Nice! The only reason I bring it up is because I too was told by others to do it. It's based on nothing but advice from 1980s reefers. Excellent information, Mr. Fosi, thank you. Dam n00b.

[clifford513]

Sure I'll take a time out too. . . It's not like this thread has been helping me. . .

 

Would it have been more appropriate for someone to have started a new thread on "A Scientific Discussion on How Long to Mix Water Ahead of Adding it to Your Tank"

 

Sorry to interrupt. . . Carry on.

We didn't answer your question?

 

I wish my threads could grow like this. An answer and a long thread...priceless

[MrAnderson]

Sure I'll take a time out too. . . It's not like this thread has been helping me. . .

 

Would it have been more appropriate for someone to have started a new thread on "A Scientific Discussion on How Long to Mix Water Ahead of Adding it to Your Tank"

 

Sorry to interrupt. . . Carry on.

 

 

sure go ahead and start a new thread if you like, but the discussion is in this one.

 

to NR, where topics occasionally go off topic. sorry if that bothers some people, but some of our best threads are the result of unfettered discussion.

[Scott Riemer]

Sure I'll take a time out too. . . It's not like this thread has been helping me. . .

 

Would it have been more appropriate for someone to have started a new thread on "A Scientific Discussion on How Long to Mix Water Ahead of Adding it to Your Tank"

 

Sorry to interrupt. . . Carry on.

I don't really understand your sarcasm. This information can be useful. Maybe you don't like the way it's being presented, but look at any other thread in Beginner's lately and see if any come close to containing this type of discourse.

[AirManFL]

I don't really understand your sarcasm. This information can be useful. Maybe you don't like the way it's being presented, but look at any other thread in Beginner's lately and see if any come close to containing this type of discourse.

 

Interesting information. I'm anxiously waiting to see what the answer is from IO.

 

Rob

[Mr. Fosi]

This one took a little longer.

 

From: Aquarium Systems Tech <info@aquariumsystems.com>

To: Isaac <****@gmail.com>,

Date: Nov 12, 2007 4:19 PM

Subject: RE: How long to mix the salt?

 

Mr. ****, The gasses do not equilibrate in a few minutes. It’s actually a slow reaction and can take hours depending on the air being pumped into the solution. I would say overnight should usually be fine but I just go with 24hrs as a std. time frame.

 

Bob

 

And my response:

 

Bob,

 

Thank you again for a very quick answer!

 

One final question: Do you have any data on gas equilibration in IO artificial seawater?

 

Thanks again!

 

I also took the liberty of emailing the prof who taught chem o. last semester. She's an PhD from MIT for those who care. (just joshin' you lgreen ) She reminded me of the rule-of-thumb value for CO2 and O2 equilibration: CO2 takes roughly 10x a long. That is approx. one order of magnitude, which exceeds the "not too different" statement I made earlier. So, mea culpa.

 

From: ****@geol.sc.edu

To: ****@gmail.com,

Date: Nov 12, 2007 4:23 PM

subject RE: Gas equilibrium in artificial seawater.

 

Remember CO2 and buffering capacity of seawater? It takes 10 times long to equilibrate with CO2 than O2.

 

C

 

So then, if it takes 5 min for oxygen to equilibrate in IO-mixed artificial seawater (as it did in the graph two pages ago) it will take approximately 50 min for CO2 to do the same. During this time, you may or may not see a pH change depending on the buffering system in your salt mix.

 

If you are heavily buffered = no change.

If you are poorly buffered (as some people have accused IO of being) = change.

 

I don't see a pH shift in my water but (as previously stated) I use a mix of IO and Oceanic. Mine sits at 8.2 whether I check it at 5 min or if I check it the next day. I always tested my change water when I started reefing but I haven't done it in almost a year.

 

I have also always had precipitated CaCO3 in my bucket. This begs a question: If it takes 50 minutes to equilibrate CO2 in seawater, is it possible for us to add salt slow enough (without staying at the bucket all day) as to avert precipitation of our Calcium?

 

I am going to siphon out the precipitate from the bottom of my bucket and add some soda water to it, then I am going to dump it back in the rest of the water and see if it precipitates or changes the pH.

 

Maybe it's time to take this discussion elsewhere?

 

EDIT: MrAnderson, would you be willing to split the off-topic salt discussion into another, aptly titled thread?

[AirManFL]

Since you guys are talking about circulated and non-circulated water here, would it be strange for my stored, non-circulated, saltwater and ro/di water to measure 1.0 ppm of ammonia? Should that clear up if I circulate it for a period of time? It's in 44 gallon brute garbage cans.

 

Should I dump it and start over?

 

I was just about to purchase 2-55 gallon drums for storing ro/di and saltwater but if it's going to go bad before I use it, I'm going to scrap my plans. I have a 24g Aquapod, a 12g Nanocube, and a 120g Oceanic Tech Series tank.

 

Thanks in advance,

Rob

[Mr. Fosi]

You shouldn't have any NH3 in your new water.

 

You sure your test is good?

[AirManFL]

Since you guys are talking about circulated and non-circulated water here, would it be strange for my stored, non-circulated, saltwater and ro/di water to measure 1.0 ppm of ammonia? Should that clear up if I circulate it for a period of time? It's in 44 gallon brute garbage cans.

 

Should I dump it and start over?

 

I was just about to purchase 2-55 gallon drums for storing ro/di and saltwater but if it's going to go bad before I use it, I'm going to scrap my plans. I have a 24g Aquapod, a 12g Nanocube, and a 120g Oceanic Tech Series tank.

 

Thanks in advance,

Rob

 

I'll do it again, but I tested water fresh out of the ro/di filter and it tested 0 (yellow). Tested the stored ro/di water in the brute can which has never had anything but clean ro/di water in it and the test shows green.

 

I'll do it again and post pics in about 15 minutes.

 

Rob

[AirManFL]

Here are pictures of the test results:

 

1st fresh from the ro/di filter:

 

Next from the storage can in the garage:

 

More like .50 ppm but still seems strange.

 

Rob

[Mr. Fosi]

That isn't cool. Do you have a cat or dog?

[AirManFL]

I guess I didn't mention....the stored ro/di water has been in a 44 gallon brute can with a lid on it for about a month.Rob

That isn't cool. Do you have a cat or dog?

Yes, I have both. Since you mention it, the laundry room where I fill my storage can is where the dogs eat and drink.Rob

[Mr. Fosi]

Could they have peed in your salt mix?

 

It doesn't matter how long the water sits in the brute, it should never have NH3 in it.