HeyLookItsCaps Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 i purchased my 29g Bio on 7-16-07 after long months of reading and my obsession with a friends 14g. I went to a highly praised LFS locally in Huntington. they had a package deal offered. 29g Bio catalina water 25 lbs LR (gave me 30) 20 lbs live bagged sand 2 snails 1 cleaner shrimp 2 clowns i let the cube sit and within 24 hours the water had cleared and 7 feather dusters popped up! so me being the OCD individual i am, started testing yesterday 7-21-07 after meticulously watching everything and cleaning and doing all the things a new reefer does because theyre scared and want everything to be perfect. my readings showed a PH of 8.3 Temp 80 Nitrate 10 Nitrite .5 Salinity 1.025 the only tester i dont have is ammonia. anyhoo, i stroll down to the LFS, and tell them my levels and such and how everything is coming forth fromt he rock, they told me they were surprised, and to give some livestock a shot. so they gave me my clowns, my shrimp, 2 snails, a blue legged hermit and i purchased 4 small hermits. they threw in a small frogspawn and a patch of zoas after a little grinding haha so lemme break down the livestock and whats going on here. Clowns, super friendly, eat from my hand already, like eachother and mimic eachother, seem very happy Cleaner Shrimp, all about food, and seems to think hes the boss, he also likes to surf in the current. the 4 small hermits, went straight to work and have been non stop cultivating my LR. seem very happy Blue legged Hermit, He makes me nervous, he just sits on his shell like hes relaxing, but hasnt actually moved. he just sits there and slides in and out of his shell, dunno what to do about that. 2 Snails, they both perished today, 1 i knew for sure because the shrimp went right over and cleaned him out, also the 'sniff' test let me know right away. the second 1 looked ok but when i looked closer he didnt move, so i gave him a little poke to see any movement and nothing, so i pulled him out, and sure enough, smelled worse than my ex girlfriend. jk jk anyway, are snails fairly fragile? and has my anxiousness cost me? also how do i go about getting an ammonia tester, of course the only thing i cant test is what im freaking out about. also thanks for reading and im glad to be a part of this coomunity, amazing resource! pics of my tank will be up in this thread very soon Link to comment
joel sandoman Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 i would have waited until all your parameters were 0. The snails probably died because of salinity level differences between the LFS and your tank. JMO. Link to comment
HeyLookItsCaps Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 on my hydrometer the salinity levels showed in green, what did i do wrong? and dont worry, i can take a beating, lemme have it should i be worried about the tank crashing or losing my livestock? Link to comment
joel sandoman Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 snails are especially succeptible to salinty level changes, or so i have heard. From my experience the LFS usually keeps their salinty levels lower. 1.025 is fine though. But you do need an ammonia test kit. As far as crashing... You can wait and see or you can take your creatures back to the LFS and ask them to hold them until you are sure your tank has cycled. Did you see a diatom bloom? Link to comment
HeyLookItsCaps Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 i was slightly confused by the term diatom bloom, what i gathered was it was a film of brown along the sand, and if that is inf act a diatom bloom, then i have had it for just over 24 hours. *i hate being on the ignorant side of the keyboard* day of purchase. 24 hrs later. taken today. also learning underwater tank photography as i go, as you can tell by the progression of quality. still need some improvement but im getting there. lemme know what you all think Link to comment
Pickle010 Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Hey.. I'm local and probably frequent the same LFS's you do - or soon will be. Anyhow, I do think you are moving way to fast. We have some GREAT LFS's but most will sell you a penguin, a chiller, a 10g and tell you not to worry about it. You'll know when you get a diatom bloom. It is brown but it will cover everything. It's when you complete your cycle you should then add your clean up crew and they will take care of the mess. Then after they have been doing alright for a while some people may add a fish or a coral and watch how things react over time. As clean as your tank looks in those pics - you are going to have some hungry CUC. Did you acclimate the snails before adding them to your tank? Might be why they died. The previous poster was right. I would take live stock back to the store - buy the test kits you need and be sure about your peramiters or if your cycle is complete. I have a fealing you are just starting it. Don't be afraid about being on the ignorant side. Everyone here was once there. This is a very expensive hobby and very frustrating if you don't do things correctly. Do a lot of reading...more reading.. ask questions and then do more reading. Good Luck Link to comment
HeyLookItsCaps Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 i acclimated them for about 30 minutes, and they seemed to be somewhat sluggish fromt he get go, the LFS said theyd trade int he dead ones for me for free tho, but i shouldnt do that? you live in huntington as well? maybe one day we could meet up for some trading haha anyway, it wouldnt be too much shock to take them back? they all seem to be doing well, but like i said, i dunno what im doing, and of course the LFS knows that, im sure its obvious....thanks for your guys help! Link to comment
Pickle010 Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Oh yeah.. and hydrometers are not very reliable.. Buy a refractomometer as soon as you can. If you can't get one soon at least take your hydrometer to your LFS and have them check it against there refractomometer so you know if yours is reading high or low. heck.. come by my place and I'll check it against mine. I'm in Westmisnter near Magnolia and Edinger... How did you acclimate them? Temp? Drip? Turkey baster? Some snails are tough and you can open the lid and toss them in but others need a slow start or they can't take the shock. I'd still take the live stock back and let the LFS deal with them - they are the ones that gave you your live stock too soon. Link to comment
HeyLookItsCaps Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 i live off of Warner, a mile or so from the beach. they told me to leave the bag floating in the water and slowly add tank water into it over 30 minutes or so. dunno if thats normal.... like i said i have 1 friend who is into it, and he has a 3 month old 14G. so in the big scheme of things were both still complete n00bs I would love to stop by sometime and check out your set up and check my hydrometer, and maybe sometime you can stop by my place and give me the ol jedi master scolding i probably deserve *damn ADD* haha which store do you frequent around here? Link to comment
Pickle010 Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 There are a few good ones... OC Aquatic in HB is really good - great guys - very knowledgable. Pacific Reef - on Brookhurst - Cool stuff - kind of pricey - Brian - the owner is a salesman. Tongs in Westminster - Nice SPS - good prices on Dry goods. My Favorite - Coral Oasis in Irvine - they aren't much for help but - cool corals - and some cheap bins - 5 to 30 dollar range that I always seen to score in. As far as corals go your best bet is other local reefers. Proraptor2 is in Anaheim and has a sick frag tank and guys on the east coast like Mvite are complete pro's and can pack and ship things to you that will not dissapoint and at better prices then you can get them for around the corner. (stuff you can't find around the corner either) There are so many great people here that trade - sell / You will find the best stuff right here. I'm out for the night man... PM me if I can be of any help. My reef has only been set up since December so I know about what you are running into right now. These boards are full of info and people that will help you out. Be patient - research before you buy - and ask if you can't find it on your own. Link to comment
HeyLookItsCaps Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 thanks for the support man, i hope to be able to turn to you when i dont wanna get ripped by LFS lol, ive been going to OC Aquatic, have you heard of it? Link to comment
HeyLookItsCaps Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 so my blue legged hermit decided to leave his shell and lay next to it... maybe is hould take it all back to the LFS for awhile? what do i do?!!?!? Link to comment
Knuckles Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 so my blue legged hermit decided to leave his shell and lay next to it... maybe is hould take it all back to the LFS for awhile? what do i do?!!?!? uhhh . . hermits usually never come out from their fortresses unless to poop, change shells, or molt; but, even then it is only for a few quick seconds and usually under the cover of night. Those shells are their main line of defense and theyre very vulnerable without them. Its rare to catch them outta their shells but pretty cool to watch how fast they do their business. I dont think that lying by its shell is normal or healthy of the little guy. I would take the advise of the others who posted and take them all back to the LFS to be picked up after the cycle. Pick up some ammonia tests (can get some cheap jungle lab dip strips for $6). Or invest in a master test kit as theyre much more accurate than dip strips; but, dip strips are fast, cheap, and easy. Also get a salinity refractometer from ebay. My hydrometer reads 1.020 while my calibrated refracto reads 1.025 s.g. .. ..kinda scary thinking about if I would have gone by my hydro to raise the sg to 1.025 when it would actually be 1.030. I have very little experience in SW tanks but have read up about it alot and these guys know what theyre doing. Take their advise because they have years under their belt. Good luck and wish me luck also! were both noobs! Link to comment
ReadyReefer Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 everything pickle has said is true. i would also take the livestock back. these animals (except for maybe the clowns) have been yanked out of their homes, placed in a bag to travel halfway around the world to a distributer who then sends them on to LFS who for the most part keep them under horrible lighting until they sell to you. I doubt a quick trip to the LFS will hurt them much, probably much less than having to wait out the cycle in your tank would. just my .02 Link to comment
joel sandoman Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 BTW, i noticed you put the rocks on top of the sand. You should really work the rock down through to the bottom so it is sturdier and you have less chance of it falling over when a goby or pistol shrimp dig. Link to comment
althefishguy Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 SLOW DOWN You're going way to fast !!! Link to comment
dsoz Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Scroll down on this link until you read MYTH 15. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/index.php I started following this advice until about month #2. Then I went out and got a pair of clowns. BIG MISTAKE! Fish need food, and food=algae. Then once I got the clowns, I also had to get some coral, and the story is all so familiar to anyone with an algae problem. SLOW DOWN!!! Take the livestock back until you have 0 ammonia, and 0 nitrite. Wait for the diatom bloom to COVER your rocks and sand with a brown, slimy, nasty looking, layer of goo. When it goes away (on its own after a week or so) it will be replaced with a green algae bloom. Then you can consider snails and hermits. When the snails and hermits have taken care of the green algae, then you can consider coral (or fish, but you should wait for the fish). Your tank is too small for and anemone (Just in case you wanted one and started asking later). Your tank is too small for a tang. You should have 3 fish (4 if they are small) MAX! Do it the right way first, and you will save money, and you will not have too many animals die in your care. Good luck! I know it is exciting to set up the tank. Just take it slow! dsoz Link to comment
TR3XX Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 the aquascaping looks pretty good to me. definitely pump the brakes and listening to the advice given. it'll be worth it to do it right the first time. i'm not too far from you so i'll be down to do some trading once you're at that point. good luck with your tank :] Link to comment
HeyLookItsCaps Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 will the LFS just take all my livestock back and keep it safe? should i even leave the hermits *pain in the butt to get out* my buddies think the tank will make it, but i just wanna do it right. also with my rock being cured and less than 5 minutes away from home with it never being out of water, how long do you think till i see the goo? ive heard of a good tank with sand and cured rock noly taking a week or 2 Link to comment
dsoz Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Hard to say how long. Just wait for a couple of weeks. One day it will not be there, then the next it will be covered. A "good" LFS will either hold your animals (some may charge to do this), some will take them and give you store credit that you can use later to buy new animals, or some will only give you a fraction of what you paid (40-75%) for credit. I think if you throw a big enough fit, exclaiming that they are trying to take advantage of a person new to the hobby they may work with you on this and give you full credit. IMO, clowns and frogspawn are easy enough to come by that you can just get others once your tank has done the initial cycle. Get ammonia and nitrite to ZERO. (most LFS will also test your water for free- take them a sample.) I also had some dwarf hermits and feather dusters during my initial cycle. They all survived just fine. The one that came out of its shell is probably a gonner, but it should be fine to let the others hang out in your tank. dsoz Link to comment
HeyLookItsCaps Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 i called the LFS and told them my story of the snails n crab. they said that it is natural in the first cycle for things to die, and not to worry, and that my levels sounded ok, *not too enthusiastic about holding them* they also said they would give me new snails and a crab because these perished. what to do..... :/ i hate not knowing anything! by the way, I really appreciate ally our guys helping me, im the definition of n00b Link to comment
joel sandoman Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 LOL! "natural in the first cycle for things to die" unbelievable! find a new LFS. You may be able to trade your critters in at another for some store credit. but that's better then them all dying. Link to comment
HeyLookItsCaps Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 so theyre totally speaking out of their rears? How frustrating all this is, anyone whos local wanna come and help me! lol Link to comment
Pickle010 Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I've been to OC Aquatic a few times - great price on refratomometers by the way - and they seem very reasonable. Call down - be polite - and tell them that you jumped the gun on getting live stock. Explain that it looks like your cycle is just starting - that you already lost some stuff and fear losing the rest. See if they'll just take the stuff back since it was so recent and allow you to take advantage of the bonus livestock at a later date. (less the stuff that died already) Keep us posted as to what happens. I've been to OC Aquatic a few times - great price on refratomometers by the way - and they seem very reasonable. Call down - be polite - and tell them that you jumped the gun on getting live stock. Explain that it looks like your cycle is just starting - that you already lost some stuff and fear losing the rest. See if they'll just take the stuff back since it was so recent and allow you to take advantage of the bonus livestock at a later date. (less the stuff that died already) Keep us posted as to what happens. Well.. I take that baack - sorry I was typing as you posted that. so theyre totally speaking out of their rears? How frustrating all this is, anyone whos local wanna come and help me! lol Man.. i'd hold your live stock until you finished your cycle but I don't have the room. I bet there is some one here local that could help out. Link to comment
HeyLookItsCaps Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 i could probably force them tot ake it back, should i? Link to comment
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