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Ah Crap...........PH lvl problem


Jackopus

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I got some RO yesterday from LFS, did my swap, came in this morning and noticed one of my clowns was dying..

 

 

This afternoon, I am in a panic, my PH is 9.1 tested both with my Milwaukee msm120, and My liquid test.

 

lfs are closed, I am attempting a water swap again..

 

any help would be great

 

bump

 

I'm still in a panic of sorts

 

ok PH declining, I dont want to go to fast about .05 per hour, is what I am reading on the googled search I just did.

 

My big concern is my salinity now, I have some Salt for fresh water tanks, I don't want to use it, but since the LFS are closed. I cant get any premade salt for sw-tanks I am watching my salinity as I add water, running about 1.23 now.....

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Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) can be used as a quick band-aid to raise the pH in a tank. It will temporarily suffice in an emergency situation until a water change can be made, and it can be found in most kitchens. Just dissolve one teaspoon of baking soda for each 20 gallons of tank water in a cup, then slowly pour it into your aquarium. The pH change will not be noticeable immediately, so wait for about an hour and test again before adding more. Keep doing this until you obtain the pH level you desire. To bring the pH down you can add distilled white vinegar in the same way.

 

 

just fyi

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Nice to see you kept your wits about you enough to find a solution. Personally - I've never come across that situation before, so I wouldn't have had a clue either.

 

Nice info though - I'll have to remember that, just in case.

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yeah, don't do it fast is what I am reading..

 

.05 per hour is the max without shocking your tank...

 

I think the PH was high since yesterday, My alarm is set for 8.5 but it didn't go off... BAH!

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From a chemical point of view, baking soda acts as a buffer at a low 8.X pH (somewhere between 8.2 and 8.6), which is just about perfect for SW tanks. It will raise low pH, but it can also lower high pH. It also increases alkalinity (carbonate hardness), which is why it is part of the B-ionic formula (I think it is the B part, it may be the A part???? Whichever). So bring it down slowly with vinegar, then keep it steady with baking soda.

 

Like you already know, change pH slowly. This is because pH is a log scale. The change if 1.0 in pH is a change in acid/base of 10 times!!! It may seem like small deal to change 1.0 pH, but it is a HUGE change!!!! do it slowly!!!!

 

Good luck. I hope that your clown makes it!

 

dsoz

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wait a sec. Baking soda is sodium bi-carbonate. It will have a temporary effect of lowering PH. If you bake it on a cookie sheet for 45 min. to an hour it will give up carbon and end up as sodium carbonate which will temporarily raise PH. Both add alkalinity but each one drives PH in a diffrent direction temporarily. The amount of gas exchange determines your PH as a function of your salinity. So for a given salinity only so much Carbon dioxide (carbonic acid) will be in solution. The amount of CO2 or carbonic acid in your water will control your PH.

It seems you do need a temporary "quick fix" so the sodas will work temporarily. I didnt understand which direction you needed to go? You need to drive PH down? Add some baking soda (arm and hammer) It will mess with your calcium levels though. Baking soda or bicarbonate wont both raise and lower PH depending on where your at it will temporarily lower it. carbonate (baked baking soda or washing soda) will raise it.

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

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wait a sec. Baking soda is sodium bi-carbonate. It will have a temporary effect of lowering PH. If you bake it on a cookie sheet for 45 min. to an hour it will give up carbon and end up as sodium carbonate which will temporarily raise PH. Both add alkalinity but each one drives PH in a diffrent direction temporarily. The amount of gas exchange determines your PH as a function of your salinity. So for a given salinity only so much Carbon dioxide (carbonic acid) will be in solution. The amount of CO2 or carbonic acid in your water will control your PH.

It seems you do need a temporary "quick fix" so the sodas will work temporarily. I didnt understand which direction you needed to go? You need to drive PH down? Add some baking soda (arm and hammer) It will mess with your calcium levels though. Baking soda or bicarbonate wont both raise and lower PH depending on where your at it will temporarily lower it. carbonate (baked baking soda or washing soda) will raise it.

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

 

 

WOW! B) great links, but I got my ph to 8.634 it is bouncing around abit. My elecrtical meter, may need calibration, I am thinking as well... I am going to continue down the slow path tonight and tomorrow.

 

so far my only casualies are a FP-clown, and a cleaner shrimp.....

 

the others seem to be fine....

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seems odd, have you done a calcium and carbonate harness(alkalinity) test lately? Might want to check and see if there is an imbalance.

 

http://reef.diesyst.com/ can enter your findings in the spaces provided then click on the graph to see how far out of parameters you might be.

 

seltzer water works as well, make sure it's just that no additives.

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Update,

 

Everything is dead...... :o

 

I slowly was bringing the PH down, it reached a pleasent 8.2 and seemed to balance out nicely on Tuesday.

 

Wednseday Everything looked great. This morning. The sump pump is seized, Temp in the tank 87 - 89. the motor was boiling the water ( almost )

 

I have white calcium deposts through out the motor, the DKH superbuffer, I have been using was building up inside the motor and siezed, is my best fycking guess....

 

I quickly removed the LR, and rinsed them in RO. I drained the tank, vacuumed out the sand, replaced all the filters..

 

Luckly I bought 40 gallons of RO, and all the salt. SO I have the tank prep'd for a quick restart

 

My only fear now is my LR could be dead.....

 

Ideas?

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2 months, 4 days...

 

the PH swing was fine, but having a Motor sieze due to the Chems you put in?

 

SUCKs SUCKs SUCKs SUCKs SUCKs

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Live rock is just a rock with bacteria in it, no worries there. the full breakdown of the tank though I think wasn't needed.. Was the tank a milky white or something? Was the motor a used motor? what brand motor? It just seems so early for the pump to seize. I would have just got a bag of ice and dropped it in there till the tank reached about 83 ish. when problems arise usually a 50% change is the max I would do. then if things are still bad another 50% the next day. I would also have filled a bag of carbon up and placed that under a pump or something. Please elaborate why you needed to do a full break down? some of the hottest reefs around the world peak out about 93 degress F. Whether or not stuff was dying on the rocks if you just cleaned the rocks in fresh water without salt you most likely killed whatever small creatures that may have been in those rocks.

 

anyhow pH stability is usually connected to your dkh, The ONLY way I would work with that is by using a 2 part like ESV B-ionic and that calculator I provided you a link of in my previous post. Those strait up powder buffers can actually cause more harm that good. after using the 2 part to get the levels I was looking for Kalkwasser is a fantastic way to maintain it then use the the b-ionic in accordance with the calculator in case either calcium or alkalinity is low.

 

btw I was reading your first post... you buy premade salt water from your lfs? why not order or buy some salt and mix it yourself? Reef Crystals is a great one, foster and smith website are very fair on the shipping price of that heavy stuff. I'd also look into filtering your own RO/DI lots of threads about cheap ones you can get on ebay for $125 shipped. then you wouldn't have to rely on a lfs for that stuff, I don't..

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Live rock is just a rock with bacteria in it, no worries there. the full breakdown of the tank though I think wasn't needed.. Was the tank a milky white or something? Was the motor a used motor? what brand motor? It just seems so early for the pump to seize. I would have just got a bag of ice and dropped it in there till the tank reached about 83 ish. when problems arise usually a 50% change is the max I would do. then if things are still bad another 50% the next day. I would also have filled a bag of carbon up and placed that under a pump or something. Please elaborate why you needed to do a full break down? some of the hottest reefs around the world peak out about 93 degress F. Whether or not stuff was dying on the rocks if you just cleaned the rocks in fresh water without salt you most likely killed whatever small creatures that may have been in those rocks.

 

anyhow pH stability is usually connected to your dkh, The ONLY way I would work with that is by using a 2 part like ESV B-ionic and that calculator I provided you a link of in my previous post. Those strait up powder buffers can actually cause more harm that good. after using the 2 part to get the levels I was looking for Kalkwasser is a fantastic way to maintain it then use the the b-ionic in accordance with the calculator in case either calcium or alkalinity is low.

 

Yes the water was Pure white, with mass cal build up on the side. It wasn't that way when I went to bed, so the heat, and DKH buffer caused some freak thing..

 

the motor was the new Maxijet 1200 2- months old, I use the stock pump from the NC24dx, as a mixing pump....

 

 

The temps, were based on my tank having an automatic fan come on once the lights come on at 7am.... from the sump temps when I reached back to grab the motor, it burned my fingers, so Over night, I really couldn't tell you how hot the tank got, but hot enough to kill my Goby and clown, and my crab....( which really ###es me off )

 

but yeah I will follow your advice, and I had the water already running with salt mixed in, I was planning to start another NC 24 I bought, this weekend, so I guess I am damned lucky I had the water mixed, and running in the jugs...

 

EDIT: from overly fat fingers trying to type on a laptop..

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Sorry for your loss. What caused the high pH to begin with? It sounds like the high pH started the chain of events. Probably the high pH, Ca on the high side and the normal heat from the motor caused deposits to start accumulating. You lowered the pH but the motor was already dragging causing heat which allowed more precip. until it locked up. That produced enough heat to kill everything and cause the major precipitation you ended up with.

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Sorry for your loss. What caused the high pH to begin with? It sounds like the high pH started the chain of events. Probably the high pH, Ca on the high side and the normal heat from the motor caused deposits to start accumulating. You lowered the pH but the motor was already dragging causing heat which allowed more precip. until it locked up. That produced enough heat to kill everything and cause the major precipitation you ended up with.

 

oki, your on the same thought thread as me...

 

as to the High PH that started this whole damned thing...

 

I had a Purple LTA get sucked into a ciculation pump, I have an Idea: that he vented his toxins, and then some smaller Critters died, and so on and so on.. the chain reaction till I had a unseen Ammo/NItrite/nitrate spike, and I hit a Cycle whle I was on vacation early june, and My wife wasn't testing the tank...

 

So I caught the whole thing as it was at the end.

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well, based on the tests ( 5 to be exact )

 

My dKH is somewhere around 16+ and my Alk is above 5.6

 

PH is now at 7.8 it dropped while I was at work..

 

I guess I can scrap the tank and start over, it is completely covered in Calcium film

 

 

Damn it!

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Ill be an SOB... omgomgomg

 

I got a friend who came over, we swapped the water out, added new Live sand, put the rocks back in ...

 

once we added the water, he place a 3g refug he modified to help filter out the surface crap....

 

We went to a softball game watched our wifes play for 2 hours ( they lost )

 

came back and I have a living Tank again....

 

Zoas popped out, Polyps peeking out....

 

I just might survive this after all...

 

:happydance:

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Recovery complete...

 

 

WHEW! :happydance::happydance::happydance:

 

I have two Zoa colonies recovering on the sand, and a Box of Shrooms recovering in the top right corner, in the clear container. they are binding to the sand and I should be able to replace them on rock later this week....

 

Thanks tons for all the help, you guys are bloody awesome! B):bowdown:

post-28259-1183432833_thumb.jpg

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