crazy nex projet: vortech diy!

[jnarowe]

Just to be very clear, you guys have no idea what you are talking about. The pump did not fall off, and if anything, the magnets have been weak. All of my pumps have crazed the acrylic, but this is by far the worst one. The rest are just light surface crazing. That is 3/4" acrylic and I highly doubt having it "slap together" could ever cause that kind of damage anyway.

 

When you put anything on acrylic that is running at 140F+, it will craze.

[supernip]

your vortech operates at over 140F? The auto shutdown function kicks in at internal temps of 50-60C, which is 140F. I somehow doubt your vortech would operate for long over the temp range

[Barnett8]

Coyote, where did you get your magnet? Do you know where one might be able to find one online? Thanks, I am thinking of doing this myself.

[jnarowe]

supernip: Intereseting assertion with no basis in fact. While there is code to slow down and even shut down the Vortech at some temperature, I have measured external temps. exceeding 150F at times. I also have observed many times the pumps slowing themselves down, but that does not keep them from damaging the acrylic. The average external temp. at 100% is 136F measured in various ambient conditions. That does not account for internal temps either, as all I can measure is the surface temp. of the heat sinks.

 

The result os this heat is that I have had to run my pumps at about 60%. Then I placed dedicated fans blowing on 2 of the pumps, and they were able to run at 109 - 119F @ 100%. I also can run them with the WWD @ about 85% in pulse mode, and depending on the frequency, they run between 119F - 125F. Again these are external temp. readings.

 

And just a quick note: I have been working with these pumps for a good 16+ months with extensive interaction with Eco-Tech, many adjustments, repairs, and alterations. I know what I am talking about when I discuss the Vortech pumps. I am a big fan of this technology, but the adoption process has been extremely difficult.

 

I am not in this thread to derail Coyote's work, but to learn about alternative pumps and help develop better ones. I have discussed at length with Eco-Tech the heat issue, and one solution is to install an external fan that would run at the speed of the shaft. In fact, with such a cooling device, the pumps could be "over-clocked" and produce a lot more flow. You can see that in the videos linked in this thread.

[Kalle]

Here can you find brushless motors, and magnets: gobrushless.com

 

You can also rewind motors, from old CD-rom's

 

I have built some motors for my RC-airplanes, and been thinking about this idea for some time.

 

But I would set the motorwindings outside the glass, and the motormagnets on the inside.

3 setts of 3 windings, and 12 magnets.

Then you can dropp, the magnets you use...

 

I could explain the brushless motor, if somebody wants.

 

Kalle.

[Coyote]

The magnets comes from here: http://www.neotexx.com/. It's the reference RD-030-10-006-N. You can also use this one RD-040-15-008-N which is bigger...

 

I've already tried rewinded cd-rom motors but i've always the same problem of sound. In fact, i think that some of the sound comes from the frequencie of the esc which is 8khz. If I can find a 16khz model, it should be a lot better...

 

Finally, i'm actually triing to build a axial motor with only a 6 poles winded disc stator outside...

 

As for the temperature i did not have any problem for now. The motor i've tried are a lot bigger than necessary (i've a 150 and a 250w brushless motor) so i run then at no more than a 1/4 of the nominal power and they don't heat too much...

[bmutuc]

Nice

[supernip]

i saw your thread on rc. My apologies for the doubt jna

[The Propagator]

Holy Christ !

That guy would rip out any metal you have in ya !

 

Block 200x150x30 mm

Dimension: 200x150x25mm / Volume: 750000mmł

NdFeB Magnet in N38 (1.26 Tesla)

Magnetized Direction: through 25mm

Coating: Nickel

Max. Operating Temperature: 80°C

 

Attention! It is absolutely necessary to handle

big-sized magnets with care!

item # Q-200-150-25-N

[jnarowe]

no problem at all supernip. It comes with the territory. Should I post a pic of it here?

[supernip]

it would help credibility by quite a lot

[jnarowe]

Do I have a credibility problem???

 

Here's one pic. I can post more but i think there's about a 1000 words in this one.

 

 

My thread on RC as a full explanation.

[supernip]

Somewhat. considering that you have 30 posts here and a screen name that's rather esoteric. Yet you have close to adin amounts of posts on rc. But I don't recall your posts until someone pointed me to the large reefs forums, which might be a bit troublesome for a nano community. I hope you understand where Im coming from.

 

FWIW, I think your debacle with ecotech stems from the fact that those guys are like nerds. They're the actual inventors so they're more curious about troubleshooting as opposed to a large company like tunze, whose MO is more business like.

 

Regardless, they should have just sent you new pumps. I haven't noticed much heat from mine at all. The pinspacer also helped tremendously

[jnarowe]

hehehe...I am on Nano-Reef because a friend is on here. Too many forums to keep track of! But I did hone in on this subject because it is of great interest to me. A DIY Vortech that incorporates a cooling fan would really make my day.

 

You are right about the Eco-Tech guys, and I have given them a lot of rope because of it. I have also tried to coach them a bit, since I have been in Big Business as well as small business for many years.

 

Post count is meaningless, but I understand how you feel. I sometimes check that with people who are posting bizzarre ideas.

[The Propagator]

Give me a link to your thread on RC please.

[jnarowe]

This is the page where I start to discuss this in detail.

[GrandeGixxer]

Wow!

[jnarowe]

well, they asked for it. had they been straight with me, these pics never would have become public. The problem is that they repeatedly told me one thing and did another. My struggle with these pumps dates back about 18 months and believe me, I have been way more patient than anyone who has viewed my tank would ever be. I waited and waited, negotiated etc. and what I got was a kiss off. Because of the ensuing discussion, they have come back to the table in an effort to resolve this and avert any further damage. I have to fully credit legal as well as mentor advice on how to proceed. I owe it all to Al Gore for inventing the internet!

[GrandeGixxer]

Jonathan, I appoligize for the above statement, I have edited it. I just read the other thread and I see why you have posted everything. It does seem that a fan on the opposite end of the motor would have eliminated all of this.

[jnarowe]

And I agreed to pay for it. But we'll see how it turns out. There has been some forward progress today so I am hopeful that not only my situation will be resolved, but other Vortech owners will be able to use them without fear of ruining their tanks.

[GrandeGixxer]

I haven't actually seen the vortech in person(they won't let us poor folk even get close to them), but how hard would it be to DIY your own fan on them?

[jnarowe]

Not that hard IMO. In fact the Great Dahn Nguyen lives near me and I will get one into his hands soon. With what he has done with the Tunze and Maxi-Jet lines, I think he will be able to make something that not only works well, but even allows the MP-40 to be over-clocked and put out significantly more flow.

[The Propagator]

So basically you circumvented the stock equipment to get it to fit ( removed the spacers ) and thats when they over heated and crazed the tank?

[Daemonfly]

Sounds like bad engineering if they can overheat this much, and I bet they just never tested long-term on acrylic tanks - probably just to see if it would work in general on the thicker acrylic vs glass.

[The Propagator]

If it would do that on 3/4' thick acrylic what has it done to 1/2" or 3/8"

Those are some pics I wanna see LOL!