My new 120G

[shaggydoo541]

The yellow and purple often get all flared up and bump tails. They also get puffed up and do this tail shaking thing which is weird. Overall its all for show as I have seen very few signs of any fin damage (which could be caused by anything) and I've never seen an actual bite between any of my tangs. They all show aggression every now and again and I think its just to establish dominance... or maybe they are just bored.

[shaggydoo541]

Well there has been a serious lack of pics on this thread so shame on myself. These are the last few I've taken of my reef inhabitants.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VannReefer87]

dude awesome tank!!..I just got a 120, with the same stand and canopy! I just set it up though...only rock is in there now.

[filefish949]

"look mom.....NO SKIMMER"

 

 

 

 

 

tank looks nice, perhaps you could just barrow a skimmer from someone for a few weeks....then you would buy one for sure

 

 

 

[hecsrt-4]

Nice tank Shaggy

 

I love your Blue Tang, he has amazing colors on him.

 

You have great camera skills.

[shaggydoo541]

Thanks hercsrt. Filefish I'm pretty sure I'm doing much better without a skimmer. I don't know why I would want to barrow one and mess with success

[Fishlips]

Thought it'd be appropriate to start my 1st post here with a photo of my 120G 5 foot skimmerless tank.

 

[c est ma]

! Beautiful tank!

 

--Diane

[keith1569]

very nice man! great growth since the first shots that were taken

[shaggydoo541]

Thank you. Fishlips that is a good lookin tank... but how can you keep a skimmerless tank? That is just crazy

[mattyice]

do you guys just not feed alot to keep it skimmerless?

 

i would not feed alot if i wasnt going to use the Italian Blu Coral method on my tank and frag setup so im sure i could get away with going skimmerless but...i have to feed a crap load to be successful with that method and that is why i went with such a large skimmer, also i use alot of real messy food like cyclopeeze oyster eggs, small mysis, baby brine, and vitamins in my reef food to keep my fish colors incredible so that is also why i need a skimmer

[shaggydoo541]

I feed a lot. It is the only way to keep healthy fish and I have 4 porky tangs among other hungry fish. I feed daily with nori and then feed my lps at night (not every night but 3x a week on average) with a mixture of cyclopeeze,mysis and lately have been adding various other cubes of frozen food as well as some concentrated phyto. My fish pick up the leftovers at night as well so many times they are getting fed twice a day as I also feed pellets occasionally.

[mattyice]

yeah see the blu coral method and me personally require alot more feeding then that, with my stock list im going to be feeding heavily 2 times a day, nori in the tank constantly, and then have to feed a cube of pappone everyday

[shaggydoo541]

I've never heard of the blu coral method... have any links?

[mattyice]

its kind of just what people have told me, i cant find any written info on it but from what i know here is what it is

 

a method of growing corals with extreme color and at an extreme growth rate by using elevated levels with bare minimum nutrients for the first 6 months to a year and then feeding the corals heavily with homemade food called "pappone" that is pretty much as much seafood and coral food you can find and blended into the finest pulp possible and then freezing it into cubes

 

here are the levels that i could find so far

 

SG-normal

Ca-500+

Alk-12.2

Mg-1500+

pH-normal

[c est ma]

I feed a lot. It is the only way to keep healthy fish and I have 4 porky tangs among other hungry fish. I feed daily with nori and then feed my lps at night (not every night but 3x a week on average) with a mixture of cyclopeeze,mysis and lately have been adding various other cubes of frozen food as well as some concentrated phyto. My fish pick up the leftovers at night as well so many times they are getting fed twice a day as I also feed pellets occasionally.

 

 

Don't know whether this fits in here or not, but I thought the following excerpt from a Borneman article, which I recently copied for another thread, might be appropriate here. It seems to me that the same process he describes would take place for non-skimmer tanks as well...maybe just over a longer time frame, say. But then we don't throw our reefs together all at once, anyway...At any rate, the idea that a healthily comprised tank will adjust to increased nutrient loads (within reason) makes sense to me...:

 

So, I don't want to generalize to every tank, but, in general, I think reef tanks are capable of processing much much more food than the average aquarist feeds. A long time ago, when there were not efficient skimmers and people didn't keep reef tanks and tanks were fish only consisting of dead substrate (bacteria and algae coated) and fish and glass and non-export filtration (no skimming), was when the "rule" of don't overfeed was instilled. Having kept a freshwater tank, and experimental tanks without the standard "reef tank" design, it's true. If you overfeed, you end up with nutrient problems.

 

But, this is also the "rule" we are told and accept when we first start a reef tank. So, we feed x amount, and our systems equilibrate to deal with that volume of food. There will be no more and no less life than can be supported by the food that is either produced within or added to the aquarium. If you add more, there will be an increase in nutrients (unless the skimmer is just really effective, in which case it may not really register). But, if you feed more, eventually, you will see nutrients start to climb, and the first things that respond through fast growth are bacteria, cyanobacteria, and fast growing algae (single celled diatoms, turfs, etc.). Eventually, the system reaches a new higher steady state level, and everything is again limited. The nutrient levels in the tank disappear again. You can see this over and over again, and it is my experience that most reef tanks can handle a ridiculously large amount of food. Between the skimming, the corals, filter feeders, sponges, bacteria, coralline, worms, microfauna, meiofauna, etc., there are a lot of mouths. With this extra nutrition comes more reproduction, too....i.e. more mouths...which need more food. Eventually, of course, you reach a point where you have max'ed out what you can add, but you will be surprised just how much this is.

 

Now, when you start feeding more, most people see an algal increase or cyano, and back off immediately. Don't. This is the same phenomenon as happened when the tank was first set up. Its a community response to more nutrients. It's like cycling the tank. First come the diatoms, then the red slime, then the hair algae, then it dies, then corallines take over. Every year in the ocean, there is a cycle in the spring of a phytoplankton bloom, followed by a zooplankton bloom. Same sort of thing here. Now, the one caveat is that many nuisance algae are strong space competitors that you do not want to become heavily established during these periods. Eventually, they will take up the new nutrient additions and self-limit, but as plants are autotrophic light alone can keep them going. So, you have a tank with no measurable nutrients in the water column, but can still have a lot of algae. Now what? Well, the primary control to avoid this on reefs - and in tanks - is herbivory. So, you get to go purchase a new tang that you wanted, or you get some more snails, or an urchin. If done slowly, and you already have enough herbivores, just the increase in microherbivory by larger numbers of amphipods may be enough to control it. Or, maybe your super skimmer and ozone are in place, and whatever you pour in and is not eaten quickly is just pulled straight out. I have seen some tanks that I think could have a constant drip of food all day and all night, simply due to the export power.

 

Anyway, start slowly, be patient, and within a year you'll probably find you can dump ridiculously large amounts of food in the tank without any measurable nutrients in the tank.

 

From this Marine Depot thread:

 

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic20086-9-1.aspx

 

 

FWIW,

 

--Diane

[Fishlips]

do you guys just not feed alot to keep it skimmerless?

 

Years ago when I started skimmerless I had the regular fears, so I didn't feed much, did more water changes. But over time reduced the water changes started feeding a little more. Now I probably feed as much as the average person or perhaps more. I enjoy watching the fish eat. My corals have good growth rates, I always have frags of one type or another available. My biggest fear was lack of oxygenation without a skimmer so I've increase circulation and made sure I had decent surface agitation.

[msn711]

Very interesting article c est ma. There is such a heavy emphasis in our hobby on keeping the nutrients low and the corals happy that fish have almost become a side show if not a nuisance to some people. Those of us that like to keep fish (or what others consider a lot of fish) are almost looked at as if we're crazy. "You can't have that many fish in X gallons!" Or "You can't feed your fish that much!" Personally, my fish come first, and corals are a nice addition to THEIR tank. (Althought my GSM clown doesn't think so.) And there's very little information (or so it seems to me) about fish nutrition and what you need to make sure your fish thrive. When was the last time you saw a post about how much X fish should be fed and how often (besides maybe anthias)? Personally, I'm starting to think that all of us that are keeping fish should probably follow Borneman's advice and feed more, especially when you consider the fact that most of our fish spend all day looking for food in the wild.

[dopamine]

is that bright green thing, neon green star polyps?

[shaggydoo541]

Diane - Great article. I agree with a lot of what is written there. I see too many hungry tangs to consider most tanks adequately fed. Again I think a lot of my success so far has been to feed often, not only to fish but to LPS as well. I read another article by Borneman (can't find it right now) that really convinced me to feed LPS often to ensure health and growth. So I think feeding both is a necessity. Now that may appear the opposite thing to do with no skimmer, but I have seen the cycle that borneman talks about in the excerpt above and in fact my tank almost always has some diatoms in the sand. I don't mind it and it certainly isn't hurting anything, in fact my tangs graze off the sandbed almost all day. With how hungry my tangs are the more algae I can get growing in my tank that they will eat the better.

[Fishlips]

is that bright green thing, neon green star polyps?

 

Yup, my clown goes back in forth between them and the colt.

 

c est ma,

I've read that article before and do agree with it as well.

I also advocate having fast growing corals to deal with the excess nutrients. In my case, colt, anthelia, GSP, perhaps even my capricornis falls into that catagory. It also help to provide income when selling frags

[dopamine]

sweet! i want one really bad for my tank, what is a colt?

[jsleep]

Great looking tank. Very impressive.

 

I don't know why so many people feel the need to chastise you for not using a skimmer. It seems in reefkeeping that there are a few solid rules (lighting, space, flow, patience!) and many other areas that are nothing more than personal preference. People have success in many different ways in this hobby.

[Fishlips]

sweet! i want one really bad for my tank, what is a colt?

 

Just a common soft coral. The one right below the yellow tang came from my biocube 14. At it's current size it'd take up half the tank, and I've fragged the biocubes colt 3 times this year already.

[shaggydoo541]

Jsleep - I definitely agree. There are very few hard and fast rules in this hobby (if any) and while my tank may not be the best in the world I am very pleased with my setup. I am seeing excellent growth. Keeping many harder to keep fish and corals and everything is very healthy. But now there is too much talk... I need to get some more pics up don't I.