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zoa rant.


formerly icyuodd/icyoud2

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reefman225gal
Friends are expensive..... :D

 

I would need to ID more Zoas, on the website, then sell them. Then we can be friends. If you buy some of my selfishly named Zoas, It would speed up the process.. B)

 

:wacko:

agreed... :lol::bling: except the "wakco' thing. Im just trying to live the american dream. I got funds and dont mind being a silient partner :bowdown:

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formerly icyuodd/icyoud2
Icy's socialist pricing policy doesn't match market demand... I bet he could raise the price and sell more. And God bless America! You're still allowed to sell something for whatever price you want. B) Travis said it well- people set the prices.

 

amen! only problem is, 90% of us are not in the hobby just to make money.

 

where buyers, not sellers!

 

this zoa thing is a fad, a craze, trendy, the in thing right now. a couple years ago it was acans, lord acan etc etc. ya used to be able to purchase them dirt cheap, the names started flying, rare color morphs started showing up(even though they weren't rare) and the prices went through the roof.

 

peeps wised up and said, no way, no how. the trend shifted and the prices on acan dropped again.

 

same things happening with the zoa's if ya want to admit it or not. if there wanst all this hype about zoa's on the net (and all your zoa id website) the prices wouldn't have jump through the roof over the last 2 years.

 

my zoa's- in this thread they have been refered to as wham'n watermelons or eagle eyes. friends have refered to them as watermelon zoa's.

 

3 names for the same zoa's

 

now can any of you tell me the persons name who came up with any of these names? anybody? anybody? didnt think so.

what are his her credentials? and why do we use this persons identifaction?

 

its a made up name right? (not a scientific name) so who has the right to name the zoa's? i mean if were gonna use names as identification,shouldn't we have some rules set inplace? shouldn't we know who's making up the names? (like every other identified species on the planet)

 

do we get to vote on the name, or do we just wait till we here a name we like and start refering to set zoa with that name?

 

are these rules set inplace for naming zoa's?

if not, arent the cool names nothing more than a cool marketing plan? if theres no rules, no consistancey to the names ya cant tell me its to make thins easier. naming the color of the disk,skirt, and mouth would be much much easier than having to sift through names that seem to change from place to place and in no way identify the zoa.

 

 

i mean if you'd never seen eagle eyes zoa's, ever? what colors would you expect?

http://boe.camden.k12.ga.us/schoolpages/ses/eagle.jpg

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I guess I can agree with that, but the zoanthids that are named are usually the morphs that are difficult to describe, or have an extraordinarily nice color that goes beyond green or red.

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One thing you have to rememebr about corals is we are all looking for rare colour morphs. Very few people are looking for rare species. I'd rather have some crazy coloured zoas or palys or acans rather then some brown coral no ones ever seen.

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One thing you have to rememebr about corals is we are all looking for rare colour morphs. Very few people are looking for rare species. I'd rather have some crazy coloured zoas or palys or acans rather then some brown coral no ones ever seen.

 

Why rare colour morphs? I sure don't. If Brown zoas were the hardest colour to get would you still want them? I want a nice tank and that means I'm going to buy corals that look nice, period. I'll pay more for orange ric than green b/c they look nicer. I'll pay more for pink and green zoas because they look nicer than brown or green. I won't pay more for nuclear greens or eagle eyes though. It's all within reason too, why pay $20 a polyp for nice zoas when I can get Ri's that are jsut as nice for the same price. I agree with Icy, the naming is silly and counter productive. If it were done right it could be useful and perhaps zoaid.com is trying to do that.

 

Some might disagree, but clown fish have a similar elitism problem. The "true" vs "false" purcula debate common naming has led some people in to thinking that Purcula are in some way superior to Ocellaris. Again there is little conceivable rational to getting a Purcula vs. Ocellaris unless you enjoy a certain number of spines more or you get a purc with notably more black (which you enjoy. The irony of this is that false percs were identified first and only after much debate was it decided that a second species existed. I'll but false percs b/c they cost less and look just as nice IMO. Just the same I'll buy pink and green zoas rather thatn eagle eyes because they look jsut as nice and cost less. Perhaps thats jsut me, some people like the bragging rights that can come with a name, arbitrary or not.

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agreed... :lol::bling: except the "wakco' thing. Im just trying to live the american dream. I got funds and dont mind being a silient partner :bowdown:

 

 

Hmmmm....

 

Silent Zoa black markets? We could have Zoa name enforcers, corner the Illegeal Zoa trade, and create new Zoa names Like Extazy,or Krack..

 

I like it! :lol:

 

But Wacko was my favorite Warner Brother....

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This is all so crazy...and other people are just taking advantage of these designer names to make money. Reef stores pay very little more if any for a colony of eagle eyes then a colony of green and brown zoos from their distributors, it's daylight robbery if you ask me. Sure, go ahead and buy overpriced zoos but do some research first, here's a story...

 

A little bit ago, I went to a reef store that don't go to very often. I looked around for pink or red zoos, or any neat looking frags. I found some little frags of "watermelons" or "eagle eyes" or whatever with 2-5 polyps and the prices were shocking, anywhere from $20-$30. I found some pink palys which were priced about the same way....no way was I going to get those.

 

Then, a couple of weeks ago, I went to Wheres The Reef, my favorite local reef store. I was looking for the same thing...this is what I found and got and at what price....

 

3 polyps/Watermelon zoo http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2...;g2_itemId=1366 : FREE

 

5 polyps/Pink "no designer name" palys : FREE

similar to Candy Apple Pinks-ZoaID (w/o the green center)

 

(a while ago) 3 polyps/Sun Burst

http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=407 : FREE

 

What I'm trying to say is that although most places charge high prices for designer zoos, there are a few (if you look carefully) that are fair and will give you a nice price, or none at all in my case. I've got lots of designer frags with fancy names for 5 bucks as well. Just look around, be smart, and you'll eventually find out what you're looking for. :)

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This is all so crazy...and other people are just taking advantage of these designer names to make money. Reef stores pay very little more if any for a colony of eagle eyes then a colony of green and brown zoos from their distributors, it's daylight robbery if you ask me. Sure, go ahead and buy overpriced zoos but do some research first, here's a story...

 

A little bit ago, I went to a reef store that don't go to very often. I looked around for pink or red zoos, or any neat looking frags. I found some little frags of "watermelons" or "eagle eyes" or whatever with 2-5 polyps and the prices were shocking, anywhere from $20-$30. I found some pink palys which were priced about the same way....no way was I going to get those.

 

Then, a couple of weeks ago, I went to Wheres The Reef, my favorite local reef store. I was looking for the same thing...this is what I found and got and at what price....

 

3 polyps/Watermelon zoo http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2...;g2_itemId=1366 : FREE

 

5 polyps/Pink "no designer name" palys : FREE

similar to Candy Apple Pinks-ZoaID (w/o the green center)

 

(a while ago) 3 polyps/Sun Burst

http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=407 : FREE

 

What I'm trying to say is that although most places charge high prices for designer zoos, there are a few (if you look carefully) that are fair and will give you a nice price, or none at all in my case. I've got lots of designer frags with fancy names for 5 bucks as well. Just look around, be smart, and you'll eventually find out what you're looking for. :)

 

That just take all the fun out of it calling them Designer zoas......

 

Now I feel all "French" with a strange need to eat Snails....

 

Long live the ZBM, (Zoa black market)

 

Vinney is on his way to your house now.... B)

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Get 'em icy! :lol:

 

I think naming them is a good idea for reference. Even with a name, the most expensive ones I have I sell for $2.00 a polyp (except PPE, which I sell for $15 a polyp, way under market value).

 

I think alot of the problem is that n00bs just dont get it yet, they see a fancy name then they think they are worth a bunch of money, thats what ###es me off.

 

Paul. Sell me some ppe!

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Wow, this thread is absolutely unbelievable......

 

You see, the part about this reefing community (specifically the NANO reefing community) that drew me in from the beginning was obviously the amazing creatures that I personally could keep on my desk. There was nothing better in the world than being able to come into my room, see that blue glow of my lights, and plop down to watch the hermit crab rumble over the live rock, see the 6-line swim through his maze of holes I didnt know existed, and to see the actual beauty of some corals living in my tank. I would sit there for hours, just observing a complex niche in its most simplest form.

 

As I became sucked into this hobby, like most other people around here have, I found out the ACTUAL best part about our little community.... The friendship and generosity that is understood by complete strangers. I could type a question about anything online here and not worry about the repercussions or getting, gasp, "flamed". I could sit in my lowly house in Idaho (yes, Idaho) and type to people in California, Florida, and even, dare I say, Cleveland and they would respond back with enthusiasm and an actual caring. I loved that fact, and honestly, it's probably the main reason I am still in this hobby (as a college student, it really isnt financially smart for me to stay in it, but I just cant get away from it).

 

Over the course of the last few months though, I have started to drift away from this NANO community, if only for the mere fact of this entire argument that resides within this thread. This little community, which has boomed even more since I have joined it, is so focused on money and "rare" corals, its really quite sick. Now, dont get me wrong, I see nothing improper with buying a coral you think is stunning, but its the fact that we are driving up prices to the point that you CANNOT buy anything without paying the premium price that frustrates me.

 

Yes, I have a reason to be like this, as my monthly income is probably the fraction of most of yours, but to be honest, when I was a kid my mother taught me the same thing all of your mothers taught you..... Sharing is caring. Now im not saying that you have to give corals away for free, but be fair! If we all sold corals for the same price, regardless of their "lineage" or "rarity", we would all be happy! People could easily attain what they desired, at a reasonable price even! Think about it....... if we all shared, perhaps even sacrificed a little of our precious colonies, there would be a widespread ability to attain the corals that really really speak out to you as a person. It would be amazing.... the people that really liked Blue SPS could find it easily, and for the people that really loved the pink soft corals, well luck would shine on them as well.

 

By driving up the prices and using our "rights as an American society to sell whatever we want for whatever we want", we are tearing apart this amazing community at the seams. It creates a division between those that have superfluous funds and those who scrape by.

 

The bottom line is..... I love this community very much. All of you are great people, and even though I have never seen ANY of you face to face (because I live in Idaho/ Washington) I still consider you friends......... er, as much as someone can be a friend when they only relate together on an online forum dedicated to taking care of creatures not normally taken care of ;) I just wish that we could, for once, forget about our personal gain and self centered attitude, and go back to the way it was..... when sharing some amazing corals with a fellow reefer was worth the sight in their eyes when you handed them that dripping plastic back with a piece of rock and a strange organism on, now those were the days.

 

Keep sharing, Keep this hobby the way it was........

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That'd be swell if supply and demand didn't apply. But since the really nice corals are in really high demand and supplying those corals to meet that demand is extremely difficult, the prices go up, regardless of whether or not they have a fancy name.

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That'd be swell if supply and demand didn't apply. But since the really nice corals are in really high demand and supplying those corals to meet that demand is extremely difficult, the prices go up, regardless of whether or not they have a fancy name.

 

Is there a shortage of supply? If I have a coral that's in demand and I frag it, then in time that person has it too, and it time they can frag their colony too. This hobby has the potential to renew it self. People are opportunisticly selling though. They see a pic of something thats apparently valued and try to make a buck. Nothing wrong with getting some money to fuel your hobby, but gouging is kinda is different. Supply and demand will ensure that nice corals will always be more expensive than ordinary corals. But it's there are more then enough nice corals around for reasonable pricing to exist.

 

Sandlot has it right I'm afraid.

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Is there a shortage of supply? If I have a coral that's in demand and I frag it, then in time that person has it too, and it time they can frag their colony too. This hobby has the potential to renew it self. People are opportunisticly selling though. They see a pic of something thats apparently valued and try to make a buck. Nothing wrong with getting some money to fuel your hobby, but gouging is kinda is different. Supply and demand will ensure that nice corals will always be more expensive than ordinary corals. But it's there are more then enough nice corals around for reasonable pricing to exist.

 

Sandlot has it right I'm afraid.

 

 

I agree completely with that one.

 

(I do have to say, though, that NRers are much better than Reef Central about not price gouging.)

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Is there a shortage of supply? If I have a coral that's in demand and I frag it, then in time that person has it too, and it time they can frag their colony too. This hobby has the potential to renew it self. People are opportunisticly selling though. They see a pic of something thats apparently valued and try to make a buck. Nothing wrong with getting some money to fuel your hobby, but gouging is kinda is different. Supply and demand will ensure that nice corals will always be more expensive than ordinary corals. But it's there are more then enough nice corals around for reasonable pricing to exist.

 

Sandlot has it right I'm afraid.

 

Yes, for some corals there are. I don't mean to keep bringing this example up, but lets take Nuclear Greens. I'm perfectly willing to pay $50/polyp for these and have contacted multiple people who I know have them for trades/purchases. The problem is, they grow fairly slow and they're reluctant to frag what they do have. Same goes with Pink Lemonades. Theres lots of people out there chomping at the bit to get a frag of it and will pay ridiculous amounts of cash for it but just can't find a frag to buy.

 

If you aren't talking about specific morphs of corals, then yes, theres lots of supply to meet demand, but if someone wants a specific kind, it can get pretty tough.

 

Now, I don't want to come off as someone who only collects named corals, because I'm not. I pick up anything that I see that I really like and can justify the price. I just have a few "must haves" that I want and can't find.

 

That being said, whenever I feel my zoanthids are ready to be fragged, I'll be trading them out for much less than I paid for them.

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SeeDemTails

The problem isnt names, it is people calling zoas what they arent to get more attention to them. I like the fact zoas have cool names.

 

Dont be lame and try to say hundreds of different color morphs should all be called the same because you are too cheap to pay for a nicer zoa.

 

Dont want to pay $40 for a PPE? Thats your choice but you tank wont be looking as good as mine.

 

Real reefers know what zoas are actually what and which ones are worth money, and what is misidentified.

 

This hobby is about collecting unique, not so much rare corals, reguardless of price as long as it is worth it TO YOU.

 

Obviously it isnt so why complain about that "Names of zoanthids" when it has nothing to do with that, it has to do with the fact more people like zoas, and keep nano reefs, and supply and demand will always raise the price.

 

If you dont like what they cost now, you should buy them up because I would hate to hear what you have to say in a few years.

 

Economics dude!

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er1c_the_reefer

there's plenty of nice corals, yes. but you know how it is. gotta keep up with them jones' (or in my case, the nguyen's) next door. they just got that infiniti g35 i wanted, so now i'mma go get me an infiniti g37 (in a few years)

 

if there's so many nice corals out there, then why not buy those corals instead of tyree's? or snipersps? or whatever other "name brands" out there? you know you can buy a colony of tricolor valida for $80, then why pay the same price for a 1" frag? as some one else earlier pointed out, why buy a gucci wallet when a cheapy walmart wallet will do the same?

 

no one's forcing you to buy anything. if you think you can get a better price somewhere else, then guess what? buy it there! spend whats in your budget. its not like corals are a necessity. i don't think its greed driving up the prices. its envy or jealousy. remember, you gotta keep up with the jones' (of the in my case, the nguyen's) next door.

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Yes, for some corals there are. I don't mean to keep bringing this example up, but lets take Nuclear Greens. I'm perfectly willing to pay $50/polyp for these and have contacted multiple people who I know have them for trades/purchases. The problem is, they grow fairly slow and they're reluctant to frag what they do have. Same goes with Pink Lemonades. Theres lots of people out there chomping at the bit to get a frag of it and will pay ridiculous amounts of cash for it but just can't find a frag to buy.

 

If you aren't talking about specific morphs of corals, then yes, theres lots of supply to meet demand, but if someone wants a specific kind, it can get pretty tough.

 

Maybe you just don't know the right people ;)

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LMAO, apparently not!

 

Oh...and when you get those Nuclear Greens - put me first on the frag list.

 

(I don't know them either)

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I wouldn't pay $50 per polyp for anything, even if they looked just like pamela anderson's boobs.

 

 

Me either. That's why I want on Vic's future frag list:

 

That being said, whenever I feel my zoanthids are ready to be fragged, I'll be trading them out for much less than I paid for them.

 

:D

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some of the names are a bit ridiculous but all you need to do is stop calling them by their names

still buy the corals just stop using the names

prices will still be the same...just not funny names to laugh about

my kiwi sunrise that i'm selling are impossible to describe with a picture because you look at them and theyre crazy then you turn on the actinics and BAM completely different

only one person on this forum knows what im talking about because ive only given them to one other person and he can attest to how crazy they are

they have a green in them under normal lighting but when you turn on that actinic its just the brightest yellow coral ive ever seen

how do you describe something like that?

hey icy, ill even send you a frag for free as long as you pay for shipping just to show you that you cant call these just by their color

just pm me

 

edit* oh and er1c why dont you just get a nissan GTR35 when it comes out?

MUCH nicer than the G35

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Me either. That's why I want on Vic's future frag list:

:D

 

Good thing you're relatively close then, because I've never shipped a coral in my life.

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If you dont like what they cost now, you should buy them up because I would hate to hear what you have to say in a few years.

 

Economics dude!

 

In a few years they'll be propagated in numerous tanks. Lots of people will have tanks with 5-6 morphs of the nicest zoa's any reefer has seen. But the reef fever will be strong and the tanks will all be full and they'll be looking for something new. Then when you’re paying top dollar for whatever the flavour of the week is, and you need to sell to make room and fund your habit I'll be buying your PPE's and eagle eyes for reasonable prices. Till then I'll buy something less popular but equally nice IMO.

 

It's Economics Dude.

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