formerly icyuodd/icyoud2 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 Real reefer's don't use those same tactics when selling to other reefers. yeah a real reefer would sell them as zoa's end of story. i hear where your coming from vic, but admit it or not, those cool names are def. the driving force of greed when it comes to ebay sellers,lfs, and zoa web sites. 5 years ago, zoa's were dirt cheap. no cool names, just as many cool colors. its all supply and demand. if ya keep demanding those cool names, somebody will supply them. (with a cool price tag of course.) Link to comment
Hekim Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Since there is no legal or standard name for zoas whoever owns them can hang any name they want on them, be it Tim, Beth or Thunder of Freaking God. If a buyer likes the colors, size, price ect, feel free to buy them. If they cost more than you are willing to pay keep shopping. There are always nice reasonably priced zoas available. Personally, I ignore any zoa labeled as RARE. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 If a specific zoa doesn't have a specific name, how are you ever going to find it? Things need a reference. It would get old fast saying hey uh.. anyone got any of those zoas with pink and green in the middle in that uh, swirl pattern with a grey fringe? What about those blue ones that you know... they're kinda grey... but still vivid...with dark fringe? Anyone? Anyone? Since individual colored zoas don't have scientific names, what should we use? I'm looking for a specific orange zoa. There must be 20 or 30 variations. God help me if none of them are labeled anything but orange! And I'm 100% with the people saying color and rarity drive up the price. PPEs are sweet looking zoas. They grow very slow. So, they are expensive. Then there are zoas like fire and ice that are just everywhere... Sure, they have some cool colors, but they are so widely available that they don't cost $50 a polyp, but can be found for $50 for 10-20 (even more on occassion). All of you altruistic people sick of high zoa prices, how about you go buy some of those $50 PPE and see how fast you can grow them out, and then sell them for $1 a polyp. How about that? Any takers? Edit: Just felt like adding what my real zoa pet peeve is--- not high prices for sweet coral, but people that call them "zoos" and "zooanthids" They are not zooos. They are zoas people. Zoas. Link to comment
Withers Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 yeah a real reefer would sell them as zoa's end of story. i hear where your coming from vic, but admit it or not, those cool names are def. the driving force of greed when it comes to ebay sellers,lfs, and zoa web sites. 5 years ago, zoa's were dirt cheap. no cool names, just as many cool colors. its all supply and demand. if ya keep demanding those cool names, somebody will supply them. (with a cool price tag of course.) Yeah I'll definitely agree that the names cause more harm than good in a lot of cases, but I still feel that if those same websites are charging too much for their named zoanthids then they just won't sell. Case in point, those auctions you linked. All 3 of those auctions are examples of a seller trying to inflate the price of an extremely common morph of zoanthid by attaching a popular name to it. Will they sell? Maybe, there's plenty of ignorant people browsing eBay at all times of the day, but the majority of reefers will see the auctions, realize what the seller is attempting to do, and decide to spend their money somewhere else. The name is irrevelant when it comes to the price, at least for me. The names are just a method for identifying zoanthids that deserve more than "Green with yellow skirts." This whole debate is still kind of meaningless though. You'll keep not buying buying them because of their trendy names, and I'll keep buying them because I feel that they're worth the price charged. Link to comment
nano-paul Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Get 'em icy! I think naming them is a good idea for reference. Even with a name, the most expensive ones I have I sell for $2.00 a polyp (except PPE, which I sell for $15 a polyp, way under market value). I think alot of the problem is that n00bs just dont get it yet, they see a fancy name then they think they are worth a bunch of money, thats what ###es me off. Link to comment
dshnarw Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Its not like you have a LOT of names to deal with when you're talking zoas. Geologists, as an example, have to name every mineral ever discovered. Many of those end up in some cyptic language. There are approximately 5000 minerals, and the same mineral may have several names. Same thing goes for rocks - "granite" as defined by the countertop people has more than 100 names to a geologist. I do have to agree about the name raising the price, in certain cases. PPE, for instance, is not the most colorful or outstanding zoa out there, with one of the highest prices. On the other hand, Nuclear Green is quite an amazing color - I can understand a higher price than most zoas for it. I don't think that price has to do with the name. Link to comment
Argent Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 I agree with the outrageous pricing for named zoas - but I also agree with the naming of zoas to help with identification - but then again I am also biased because I have named zoas on zoaid.com. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 where or what is GTA? grand theft auto... Link to comment
Drez Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Its not like you have a LOT of names to deal with when you're talking zoas. Geologists, as an example, have to name every mineral ever discovered. Many of those end up in some cyptic language. There are approximately 5000 minerals, and the same mineral may have several names. Same thing goes for rocks - "granite" as defined by the countertop people has more than 100 names to a geologist. I do have to agree about the name raising the price, in certain cases. PPE, for instance, is not the most colorful or outstanding zoa out there, with one of the highest prices. On the other hand, Nuclear Green is quite an amazing color - I can understand a higher price than most zoas for it. I don't think that price has to do with the name. The problem is that the names people are giving Zoas don't mean anything. You can say some grow slow but unless you can match the common name with a taxonomic name then it doesn't mean anything. If purple people eaters are rare and slow growing and expensive and I call my zoas PPE's that, it doesn't mean they are. Even if you COULD match zoas based on common names, most people can't tell the differences. They best they can do is say if it looks good or not. So lets leave it like that, pay what you think it's worth based on how they look, not on how cool a name is. Even if could (and for arguments sake others could too) there is no way of knowing if they are genetically the same or just look alike to you. If all you want is a rare name then buy the cheapest brown polyps you can fine and send the the difference to me. I'll use that money to give them give them a downright bad ass name. Otherwise save your cash and get good looking frags and leave it at that. Those names don't mean anything beyond what they mean to you anyway. where or what is GTA? GTA = Greater Toronto Area edit: Tense Link to comment
Pickle010 Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 I like the names - just to get a general idea but you learn pretty quickly that 5 diferent Zoa's might have the same name depending on who you talk to. Half the time you know that someone found a Zoa frag in there LFS and they are hoping they discovered oil. They know they just paid $15 or $20 bucks for the frag but bought it in hopes that the polyps will fetch a premium if they are actually "Whammin Watermellons". I mean I've never seen a sign in my LFS that said "We have Whammin Watermellons! Maybe in a different kind of establishment, but not my LFS. Link to comment
SPerry Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Thunder of Freaking God I like it!!! Link to comment
Travis Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 If people would use ZoaID.com to make sure that it isn't already named, then there wouldn't be any double nameing the same morph. Link to comment
HecticDialectics Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Could everyone who paid $10+ a polyp for some zoas just because it had a sweet killer name and not because they liked the way it looked (and not to resell higher...)?? ... Anyone? ... Anyone? Didn't think so Link to comment
Travis Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Could everyone who paid $10+ a polyp for some zoas just because it had a sweet killer name and not because they liked the way it looked (and not to resell higher...)?? ... Anyone? ... Anyone? Didn't think so haha +1 Link to comment
Joe b Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 I have a name for my brown zoas,(supercala-FRAG-aliciousexpyaldoces)oh yeah did I mention their extremely rare, grow only at uranus, going quick. $100.00 a polyp! Ha ha ha lmao! Link to comment
dshnarw Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 The problem is that the names people are giving Zoas don't mean anything. You can say some grow slow but unless you can match the common name with a taxonomic name then it doesn't mean anything. If purple people eaters are rare and slow growing and expensive and I call my zoas PPE's that, it doesn't mean they are. Even if you COULD match zoas based on common names, most people can't tell the differences. They best they can do is say if it looks good or not. So lets leave it like that, pay what you think it's worth based on how they look, not on how cool a name is. Even if could (and for arguments sake others could too) there is no way of knowing if they are genetically the same or just look alike to you. If all you want is a rare name then buy the cheapest brown polyps you can fine and send the the difference to me. I'll use that money to give them give them a downright bad ass name. Otherwise save your cash and get good looking frags and leave it at that. Those names don't mean anything beyond what they mean to you anyway. GTA = Greater Toronto Area edit: Tense I like the flower analogy on this - you get a daylily for example, genus Hemerocallis. The difference in species is small enough that the average person can't tell - just like Zoanthus. But every color and pattern has its own name (Franz Hals, for example), just like what we've done to Zoanthus. It's not a taxonomic difference, but rather a color difference. There's nothing wrong with that. If it looks like PPE, then call it PPE. I don't care if it's lineage came from Blane Perun or anyone else (how do we know that the LFS down the road didn't just happen to get zoanthids from the same location that his came from anyway?). It's just a simple way to describe the color morph exhibited (at least to me, and I'm sure many others), not the genetic variation of a coral. Link to comment
kkyyllee Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 i dont really see how purple people eaters really describes the color Link to comment
er1c_the_reefer Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 naming zoas isn't driven by greed... if it was then buying a macro lens for a camera should be too. i think a good picture will increase the price on coral. 3 polyps: 3 polyps after closeup, white balancing, increase exposure, etc: Link to comment
ezcompany Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 naming zoas isn't driven by greed... if it was then buying a macro lens for a camera should be too. i think a good picture will increase the price on coral. 3 polyps: 3 polyps after closeup, white balancing, increase exposure, etc: i dont see the problem with naming corals either. its the people that try to place "LE" status that create problems Link to comment
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