Lionfish vs. Frog video

[Fishfreak218]

Why did that guy get 90 days exactly?

 

It's normal to feed snakes live mice, rats, or even rabbits, so why not a small dog? How is it different? How is it any more or less cruel.

 

I'm frightened of the precedent that has now set. It's an easy jump from a puppy to a rabbit, and from there on down. Soon it'll probably be illegal to feed any live foods to anything. No more feeder goldfish or mollies, hell, no more rotifers or phyto. They're alive too you know.

 

Where do we draw the line? Apparently at puppies, 'cause they're somehow different or special.

because we [humans] are much more attached to puppies becuase they are cuter, smarter, and commonly kept as pets whereas rodents are usually considered pests

[varanus37]

As a note, its not common to feed live prey items to reptiles and never should be. Prey items should either be fresh-killed or frozen-thawed to prevent injuries to the animal being fed. Thats just as cruel as feeding a living creature to the animal. Both suffer in that way as the prey fights. Simply gassing (euthanizing) the creature beforehand will gently end its life and save both animals from harm. Its a necessary evil but everything has to eat. As far as dogs being special, I know lots of people that keep rodents as pets. Whats the difference? Dogs are smart? Pigs are incredibly intelligent and I love bacon. I agree it was cruel that the puppy was alive but anatomy classes all across the US and the world dissect cats every semester. If he had humanely killed the dog beforehand (euthanized) then fed it, would it be a crime? I wonder.

 

Bill

[Riona]

It's normal to feed snakes live mice, rats, or even rabbits, so why not a small dog? How is it different? How is it any more or less cruel.

They shouldn't be. I adore snakes and want one, but I also own rats and a mouse. As a result I will not own a snake unless I can guarantee it is eating f/t food. As with the bacon/pig thing. It's possible to like both animals, but you shouldn't be cruel to either

[neanderthalman]

Thanks guys, glad I'm not crazy. I have three rabbits, which is probably why I personally don't see the distinction between puppies and rabbits. I'm pretty sure at least one of them is on par with an average dog in the intelligence department. They're also not rodents FF, which suprised me when I found out. They're from the order Lagomorpha, not Rodentia. Something about the teeth IIRC.

 

I also know that there are some snakes that will simply not take dead food, though apparently shaking the food can convince some of them to strike. While it's not necessary for most snakes, it is still done on a regular basis with rats and mice, and nobody gets three months in jail for it.

 

I agree that whenever possible, the food should be killed before feeding to the snake, if not for cruelty reasons, but to protect the snake. What this guy did was certainly stupid, but I don't see how it was cruel or deserving of jail time. I'm sure the dog was dead by constriction within a few seconds. It doesn't exactly take a long time to die, so it's not like it suffered.

 

Regardless, I don't think that anyone would have said a thing if it were a typical feeder animal. I bet that if he had euthanized the puppy beforehand, he still would have been charged simply because it was a puppy. It seems that in todays society, only vets can euthanize a dog. You can't take it out back and shoot it anymore, it's cruel.

 

It's a shame too. All of those puppies being euthanized at your local SPCA could be fed to snakes instead of cremated. At least then they wouldn't go to waste. Nothing is "allowed" to eat a puppy, they're too cute.

 

 

this all reminds me of a good joke:

 

A little girl walks into the local pet store, and says to the shopkeeper, "excuthe me thir, do you have any bunny rabbiths?".

 

He replys to her, "yeth we do, we have a cute little thilver bunny over here, and hereth a baby with earth that flop over. We altho have a thweet little brown bunny if you want him inthtead"

 

She looks at him disdainfully and says "I don't think my python really giveth a thit.

[mrabolli]

snakes normally wont eat dead prey. Need to be alive. Puppie are not food and it goes against the norms of this society. Thats why he was prosecuted.

[DudE31]

i think that feeding a puppy is un natural. In the wild snakes eat rats mice and rabbits. In the wild you would not normally see a boa go after a puppy. Rats mice and rabbits are a part of their food and the food chain. A domesticated dog is not. Now for those of you who have pet rats mice etc as i have had they are pets and should not be fed. But there are certain animals that are bred for the purpose of being fed to other animals.

[neanderthalman]

he was charged with "cruelty to animals", not "unnatural feeding" or "using domesticaed animal as food". Cruelty to animals does not discriminate between a natural feeding or a domesticated vs. wild animal.

[DudE31]

i guess you have a point but i personally only feed my snakes f/t or pre killed so the prey does not have to suffocate to death

[varanus37]

Large constrictors don't eat dogs? So African Rock Pythons won't eat wild dogs? Or Burmese Pythons don't eat dogs from the villages that encroach on their jungle habitats? I'm pretty sure that snakes, like any animal, are opportunistic feeders. If it will fit in their mouth and they have the ability to kill it, its going to get eaten. You are correct though that it is a distinction in our society to view certain animals as "pets" with human qualities attached to them and special care given as opposed to the working animals they once were. It really is a good debate I think. Rats and mice are also not the common food for large constrictors as pet stores may have you think. Large constrictors commonly take large prey items. Boas, its true, are not giant constrictors but rather medium sized so they would naturally feed on smaller creatures such as rodents. A good portion of their diet would be birds, lizards, and other arboreal animals. That is, after all, their natural habitat.

 

Bill

[supahtim]

i think that guy would've gotten charged because what he did actually seemed cruel just because of the cooking oil.

 

good points everybody. i've seen several threads that started out like this, but by now have turned into horror shows. lol we seem to be getting more civilized every time! haha

 

those guys in that video feeding the frog to their lionfish are truly idiots. if anybody has seen the movie "Idiocracy", those guys kind of remind me of the president. hehe

 

Tim

[neanderthalman]

I'm still not sure how the cooking oil is cruel. was it caustic? did it burn the dog? was it allergic to oil? No. Greasing up the dog before it was fed to the snake in now way caused the dog any harm. I bet he looked pretty pathetic though.

 

Would shaving the dog prior to feeding be cruel? What about clipping it's nails prior to feeding, so that the snake doesn't get scratched as badly?

 

I'm still not seeing why this is worthy of jail time, while other live feedings are not. It's not like he beat or abused the dog, dragged it behind his truck or mutilated it. Sure, those are worthy of jail time. No question there, that's cruelty to animals.

 

If feeding a dog to a snake gets you 90 days for cruelty to animals, then feeding rotifers to fry should get you life in prison, considering the number of individual animals you cruelly fed to your baby fish.

[Juanhunglo69]

I agree with neandrathalman. 100% What is the difference between a dog and a rabbit? For some people nothing.

[neanderthalman]

Yet one sends you to jail, the other doesn't.

 

Let the man walk, and tell him to stick to feeding rabbits next time so the neighbors don't get upset.

[sleepy]

If not for animal cruelty, they would have got him for psychologically scaring the kids who watched the feeding. Laws are what they are... nuff said

[Caesar777]

Frankly, I'm disgusted, too, by the retards who want snakes and lionfish and so on just to feed them live food and get off on that. As a vegetarian, I see all animals on the same plane, and I completely see your point, Nea. I argue it with people all the time: why is it "cruel" and "disgusting" to kill and/or eat a dog but not a pig (which is actually more intelligent), a cow, or a chicken? Because of social paradigms. Go to another country, and it's different. Just because YOU think something is "cute" or "smart" and therefore deserves a different title than others...well... The Nazis rounded up the mentally-retarded along with the Jews, political dissenters, and so on. Because they were "useless" in society, not smart enough or capable of contributing. I see it as the same thing. And sorry to Godwin up the thread; I always do that.

[Fishfreak218]

Thanks guys, glad I'm not crazy. I have three rabbits, which is probably why I personally don't see the distinction between puppies and rabbits. I'm pretty sure at least one of them is on par with an average dog in the intelligence department. They're also not rodents FF, which suprised me when I found out. They're from the order Lagomorpha, not Rodentia. Something about the teeth IIRC.

wow! never knew that!! learn something new every day

[yota924x4]

why don't you come over here and i'll cover your head with cooking oil, lets see how your eyeballs enjoy that...

 

then tell me if there is anything wrong with doing that to any animal. then we'll rip open a nice pillow and feather you, take a trip to the zoo and let their komodo dragon eat a giant turkey

 

also did not know that a rabbit was not a rodent. and agree that they are decent pets not just food

[neanderthalman]

Got a little pent up anger yota? Chill, please, this has been relatively civil so far. Why don't you present a well thought out argument to support why this man should go to jail for what he did, when other people do not for doing precisely the same thing with rats, mice, rabbits, and pigs.

 

I don't think that what this guy was right, but am simply pointing out that his "crime" is no different than what is done on a regular basis by other snake owners. If nothing else, the law must always be consistent. This sets an extremely dangerous precedent, and I don't think the judge who presided on the case considered the far reaching ramifications of his decision.

 

In the future, the precedent this case has now set can be used to send to jail anyone who uses any live food to feed anything. This includes anyone engaging in breeding of fish, which require live feedings, or the keeping of mandarin dragonets or sand sifting gobies, which generally eat only live foods.

 

What other animals eat live foods? Let's try dart frogs, countless lizard species and snakes, other exotics, like giant centipedes and tarantulas. Mantis shrimp, oscars, scorpions, frogfish, and how many other countless species of fish, reptiles, amphibians, and arthropods can now all be made illegal to feed because of this case, because a single judge decided that the life of a dog is somehow better than the life of a rat.

 

See the problem yet? He drew an arbitrary line and did not consider what the ramifications of that line would be.

 

Should the guy have fed a dog to a snake? No, that was stupid and unnecessary. He should have stuck to traditional feeder animals, as it would not have created an uproar such as this. I would go further and guess that he did it more for entertainment than for the dietary needs of the snake, which I find abhorrent. Regardless, the dog was killed quickly by the snake, and did not suffer any longer than a dog euthanized by a veterinarian. Therefore, I do not see how this is cruel. Sick and twisted, yes, but certainly not cruel.

 

Considering that the charges are specifically "cruelty to animals" not "being a sick SOB", I fail to see how the charge fits the circumstances. It fits about as well to animal cruelty as using a mousetrap or poison to kill vermin, or a farmer shooting groundhogs in his field. They also kill, and they also cause some pain in the process. It's still not cruelty.

 

I await your intelligent rebuttal, yota.

[adinsxq]

"i guess killah got killed by the frog"

 

lol!!

[DudE31]

Regardless, the dog was killed quickly by the snake, and did not suffer any longer than a dog euthanized by a veterinarian.

Neanderthalman I have to completely disagree with you on this one. Euthanasia is very humane. No pain is felt by the animal. They to put it in the simplest of terms go to sleep. Being bitten and affixiated to death and having your ribs broken is not quite the same. Being eaten by a snake is much more painful and long lasting than a quick euthanasia. I have seen dogs and cats be euthanized (i work at a veterinary office) and it lasts no longer than 10 seconds before they die. Snakes can constrict thier prey before they die for several minutes. Why do you think when a feeder rat of mouse is being constricted they cry out in pain and try desperately to get away. Euthanasia is a much more humane practice.

[Caesar777]

That's cute... You think shelters all across the country can afford (or care enough) to use injectable euthanasia. It's not uncommon for animals to be euthanized in gassing chambers, or to be injected with other chemicals.In theory, you have a point, but in reality, you don't.

 

That said, constrictors don't usually crush ribs. MAYBE snap one or two, but it's not their goal. The point about separating animal species in some arbitrary legal pecking order still escapes you, as well as the uselessness and wasted lives of all those euthanized animals. They're burned. Why not make use of the animal and feed it to something else? It isn't more sentient; we just have more of an emotional attachment to it, so it SEEMS to be more so. In fact, as you pointed out, rats cry in pain and struggle for their lives when attacked by snakes, just like any other living creature would. That's the point. Rats are considered vermin, along with rabbits because they can overpopulate areas quickly, but dogs are considered lovable pets, even though they, too, present the same problems. If you have to, go to (or see pics of) a third-world country or US slum to see what I mean. Or, hell, any state-funded animal shelter. It's not the fairy-tale people think it is. The pitbulls and lab mixes and black cats that fill these places all across the country are considered garbage by humans, refuse from our own system, suffering because we created them but didn't want them. And they end up just euthanized and stuffed into garbage bags.

[DudE31]

I do understand that feeding live animals is cruel. That is why I feed all of mine f/t. Feeding a snake in an enclosed cage a live animal is not fair to the feeder. It has no means of escape. In the wild survival of the fittest. If a snake cathces a mouse so be it the mouse had the whole world to run away in. In a tank, i don't care how big it is the mouse or feeder is awaiting death. I think feeding live should not be done. Or if it has to be some effort should be made to get the animal onto f/t. I also undertand the mass amount of shelter animals in the world. But feeding them off after they are humanely killed is one thing. I find it weird but see no probelm in it if they didn't have an owner. But if someone has a pet dog that needs to be put down it should be creamated and not fed off. Same goes for a rat or bunny that has to be put down. It was a pet that has meaning to the owner. Not a stray or feeder. The point I am getting at is let the food chain happen within reason.

[mascencerro]

<break in discussion>

 

I think its funny how this turned from a sorry clip of a lion being fed a toad to whether or not it is considered OK to test cooking oil on animals eyes

 

carry on

 

</break in discussion>

[neanderthalman]

why isn't a dog within reason?

 

what makes it special?

 

is it not obvious that he purchased the dog for the express purchase of feeding his snake?

 

Is it not exactly the same as purchasing a rat or rabbit to feed to the snake?

 

He had absolutely no emotional attachement to the animal, so your argument is rather moot.

 

C - thank god at least you see the point I'm trying to make about arbitrary "rankings" of the value of different animals.

[DudE31]

i just meant if it is a pet = no feeding live or killed

if it is a feeder = feed away but f/t is more humane