Why do my snails die?

[Reef Gator]

Watch for temperature fluctuations as well. Mine sometimes creep up to 83-84 on hot summer afternoons, and ceriths and astreas seem to be the first casualties.

[stingythingy45]

It did get to 80 deg. in the tank one day.

But I had already lost 4 turbo snails before that happened.

It's so weird,the snail just sat on the substrate and never moved for a day or two.

Then,one by one they died.I know some people are probably saying"it's just snails".

But to loose 9 snails in about 2 weeks definetly could lead to a bigger problem later.

[varybarry]

yeah my crabs are doing great!

[stingythingy45]

Well,here's a little update as to what's happening with this snail dying problem.

As stated before, I changed out at least half my water over the coarse of week with Walmart RO/DI water(tap water before).I also changed my salt mixture from some Petco brand(Aquatic Gardens) to I.O. First two things I noticed was that the calcium dropped and the PH as well.Before my calcium level was 360 without any dosing.PH has always been low but this needed quite a bit of buffer to bring it up to 8.2.

I've also checked the PH in the morning and after lights on for a while and it was 8.2 both times.Saturday I picked up one large turbo that was stuck to the top of the glass in a tank at the LPS.There wasn't much of a selection and I never did see the snail move much(dumb move,I know).Anyway,I drip acclimated it for well over an hour before introducing it to the tank.It moved around some and just parked in the corner back by the filter(hardly ate any algae).Last night I picked up a Tiger Turbo snail.When I got home the large turbo seemed to be hanging from the glass by it's foot.I started the drip for the new tiger snail and watched the turbo slowly slip down the glass.It was terrible,like help me......I'm falling.After an hour I added the new tiger and it went right to work.It basically cleaned the whole short side of the tank while the other snail slowly slipped to the bottom down by the substrate.Perhaps this dying snail was sick to begin with.I plan to do another 3 gallon water change Saturday and watch this new snail for signs of trouble.

I'm sure i'll be plucking that other large turbo from Saturday out of the tank when I get home.

[stingythingy45]

Another update:

The large turbo died today(one week) and the tiger turbo isn't really moving around on the glass much.Friday I removed an artificial rock that had lots of holes and was a grayish color and placed it in my 10 gallon quarantine tank.After that I did another 5 gallon water change with RO water from Walmart.I also put a Whisper HOB filter that was on the Q. tank on the main tank(new filter pad and carbon).I finally got a copper test and checked both tanks an hour ago.No copper was found in either tank(tested near silicone).The Q. tank still had original tap water in it and the suspect artificial rock.Tested all other parameters also,everything was fine.Also added a emerald crab to help the CUC.He's doing fine and went right to work.I guess this tank will be a snailess one unless the tiger turbo pulls through.

[stingythingy45]

I'm considering getting a new tank and switching everything out.

The big question that remains,is it worth it for snails dying?

Could this problem have adverse effects on corals?

Was the reason the yellow polyp frag closed and the small ricordia frag died due to an old poisoned tank?

Or did they die because something I did?

I will consider my options over the next few weeks.

[soundtweequor]

You definitely can't go wrong with RO and I've known other enthusiast to buy RO water at the local market for about $1.50 per gal, but should be able to track RO being distributed at your LFS for no more that .50 a gal. The ones that do sell them will also sell 5 gal holders when I strongly urge for you to get because it comes in handy for water changes especially if you change weekly. I also recomend a 2 part (Ca/Alk) and some trace elements which well help stablize the water and maintain the PH. I use esv B-Ionic for my 2 part and Reef Sulotions for my trace elements. These additives along with the RO water is the best thing you can do for your tank. Good Luck!

[stingythingy45]

Yes,I plan on getting the Bionic 2 part but right now i'm balancing alk and calcium with Kent liquid calcium and PH 8.2.

The tiger turbo snail is working it's way back around the glass again.

But it doesn't put it's mouth on the glass.Last night I watched it for a while and it seemed like it wanted to barf.....wierd.

I guess that's the terrible irony of this whole mini-eco thing.It's unfortunate to lose such fasinating creatures when things go wrong.I'm crossing my fingers and hoping I've found what could be the problem.

Or I'll be doing a switcharoo on tanks soon.

[stingythingy45]

Well,I looked at the tank this morning and the last snail has closed it's door for good.

I'm looking into buying a new tank,drilling it for and overflow and return and switching out with this tank that seems to dislike snails for some reason.My only guess is that a previous owner(my cousin) or myself had used copper at one time in this tank years ago(about 25 yrs ago).Strange how something like that could stay in the tank silicone for so many years.BTW......tested for copper and had no results.Crabs seem to be doing fine still.Also picked up another peppermint shrimp the other day.And it's doing fine also,came out to enjoy a shrimp pellet yesterday.The only thing I have found that seems to be strange during testing my water parameters was the KH is very high (12-13).

[stingythingy45]

Ok.......another update.

I visited a lfs a few towns over that has a real life Aquarium Guru running the place.

After explaining how my snails died and then how my crabs got sick and died he asked me many questions about what products I use on the tank.When I got to the salt mix I used to set up with(Petco,Aquatic Gardens) a red flag went up.Also at this point I had hair algae on the live rock that made them resemble Tribbles from Star Trek.

He said the water is definetly poisoned and attributed it to the Aquatic Gardens salt mix.BTW,he has no less than several hundred snails in his tanks.I had changed to I.O but had only done one large 5 gallon change with the new salt.Saturday I mixed up fresh seawater with I.O. and R.O. water and got a 10 gallon up and running.Also took out some C.C. substrate from the 20 L. and used for the bottom.After temp and PH matched I moved my live rock(after scrubbing the algae off) into the new 10 gallon.Then I acclimated the few crabs I had,a peppermint shrimp and the 2 Damsel fish to the 10 gallon's water(drip for 20 minutes).As of this morning everything was doing great.I plan on getting some sugar sized aragonite sand today and also getting a new tank(20 L).I'm a little concerned about causing another cycle when I start up the 20 L again.Should I consider putting the substrate in a stocking in the new tank for a while to help build the bacteria level?Or will the live rock be enough?

[Jackopus]

LR should do it, but adding the live sand would always help..

 

just dont dose with Cycle or TLC products to boost your bactria.

 

avoid adding any artificial dosing elements from what I have learned these last few years. my 55 fowlr is rocking for 18 months. I am in the process of making more Reef oriented. my MC24 was my first attempt at a live reef tank, and it has been a new experience for me..

[stingythingy45]

I have learned a valuable lesson here.

And I hope the people that followed this thread(newbies) will never go through what I had too.

I believe I have found the reason why snails died in my tank shortly followed by crabs.

It has turned out to be a substandard salt mix sold by Petco called(Aquatic Gardens).

This product is made in China and distributed by Petco.My only wish is that I still had the bag so that it could be checked for poisons or whatever caused death in my tank.All this time doing water changes to try to make things better only to add more poison to the tank.The 10 gallon that I moved everything into from the 20L and mixed up I.O. water is thriving.Snails,crabs,shrimp,fish and even life is even coming out of the live rock(peanut worm).And NO......I don't endorse any particular mix.I just want my fellow reefers to avoid this terrible experience.Yes......I have learned that all salt mixes are not the same.I will update after the new 20L is up and running again.

[el_vulture619]

I hate those bigbox chain stores. Made in China eh?? Every thing that is coming out of that country is piosing and killing everything! exp. toothpaste with antifreeze in it! Tiretread that comes flying off! Down with the WTO, IMF!!

 

Thanks for that info, but where are all the other salt mixes made? Anyone have a list?

[stingythingy45]

I just wrote a letter to Petco.

I wonder if i'll get a visit from an agent now.

What happens if this is really something big?

I know,it will be all my fault..blah,blah....blah...

[althefishguy]

Most snails don't have very long life span and You never know how old they are when You get them. I think You're a little too worried over snails dying. As far as the guru telling You not to shop at petco thats his job. I would worry about the ph problem instead of the snails. You should'nt have to add ph adjust with any good salt mix. If You keep changing You filter You kill the bact. in it and start a mini cycle everytime

[MDeth]

So you should never change the filter?

 

If you have enough LR...there is no mini-cycle when you change a filter....

 

The bacteria also live/thrive in the sand and any surface really.

[stingythingy45]

Hmmmmm......so fish guy,you are saying that tiger snails(zebra) grow to the size of golfballs and die within a few months?Snail dying to me means there is something wrong that will lead to bigger problems later.Also,the"Guru"at the LFS never told me not to use Petco products.He only stated that it was not a tried and true salt mixture that is used in the hobby.We are all leaning how wonderful products from China are turning out to be.The PH problem is corrected now that the salt has been changed.Mini cycle everytime?I moved the substrate and the live rock from the other tank to the 10 gallon to avoid this problem.

[c est ma]

I just wrote a letter to Petco.

I wonder if i'll get a visit from an agent now.

What happens if this is really something big?

I know,it will be all my fault..blah,blah....blah...

 

Or perhaps you'll be a hero...esp. if word gets out...

 

BTW, has everyone read that the Chinese just executed a man accused of adulterating products?

 

Most snails don't have very long life span

 

According to Shimek: "[snails] are sophisticated, advanced animals capable of long lives...," and "Some temperate turbinids will live more than 50 years. For tropical species, lifespans of a couple of decades should not be unusual." (pp293 - 294, "Marine Invertebrates.)

 

--Diane