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PICTURES UP Beginner needs help with 20g


Helpinsmepls

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Helpinsmepls

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Sorry bout the messy glass, have not had time to clean it today. Most of the haze is comming from inside the tank because of the water being cloudy. Im going to change my background for a blue I think.

 

Added question: When I get my Fiji Live Rock what will grow on this dead white coral I have in my tank?

 

Hi,

 

First this is a really nice fourm to look at. I went to my local library and checked out all marine books I could find that were made in the 90's on up. None of them lists this valuable information the way it is listed in these forums. That said even after reading most of the books and probably 5 lists of forum topics I still need help. I want to start out right.

 

 

History

 

I would like to add one more bit of history before I get started. Ive been a freshwater nut for about 10 years. I had one saltwater 7 years ago (this is why most of my equipment I will list later may seem old) It was a 15g high aquarium with one clown and an anenime for him to play in. Durring that time 7 years ago a icestorm poweroutage decimated my aquarium collection. To make this fast ill just say I had about 15 aquariums going. Mostly 10g's. The outage lasted 4 days and nights and was very cold. Needless to say I was mostly helpless. I tried my best to save the critters :)

 

 

 

Now the current setup

 

20g glass

skilter 400

100w topfin heater

2 Hagen 50 AquaClear Powerhead Water Pumps

20 pounds Crushed Coral / Sand Substrate

10 pounds live fiji rock (on the way, 3day shipping) (Make that 4 now, Damn UPS!)

Regular Walmart hood and floresent bulb

I had a 5 inch woodstone protien skimmer that works inside the tank. Was hard to put in so I took it out and made a mess with it. I hooked a few water bottles to the top and bottem of it and used some UG uptake tubes to make it longer. Works well but knowhere to put the ugly thing. So if I want to use it I have to dump it in the front and take it out when im done.

 

(I have the powerheads running on lowest setting and am happy with the output. Its enough to aggitate all the water in the aquarium. I dont have the venturi tubes turned on but I turned them on to check water movement and everywhere in the tank is getting movement. I have the powerheads pointing toard each other and they are located tords the back of the tank on the left and right side.)

 

(The Skilter has the purchased type filtermedia in them. I threw in a ammoniareducing bag, carbon bag, and a filter media (all from a aquaclear new filter i have) Also I could not find the complete uptake tube so had to make one out of some old UG filter parts.

 

After reading the books I thought I was set. But now I see that I have done things differntly than what is being used by you's guy's. When compaired my system looks like a fish killer. (to me, but I obsess over my aquariums)

 

I started the aquarium with freshwater over a week ago to check to make sure this equipment would not leak on me. 2 day's ago I added the coral substrate and salt and a dab of flake food to get things started. My water is still a bit cloudy but by reading 2 to 3 days is normal. If I dissrupt the substrate I still get a small amount of additional cloudyness to come up.

 

 

 

What I want in my tank

 

Ok well for sure I want my LR I ordered to be healthy. 2 tankraised clowns says max size 2" on these guys, Some sort of shrimp, and a goby.

 

Not sure what the correct size or what type of CUC to get. Also I need a good place to order from. No stores around here look safe to buy from.

 

 

 

Additional stuff I have to work with

 

With all that said im running a bit low on cash. Even thou some of this stuff was used from the old saltwater I had. One last note, I have homedepot giftcards I need to use. Not a FS but still lots of stuff can be used in aquaria.

 

I am wondering if this could be an option http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-filter/111.asp I would take out the potscrubbers and put in bioballs. The problem with this is the system would be in my bedroom and I would need a quiet pump to get the water back into the tank.

 

 

I am listing now what I have to work with, just extra stuff I have laying around and it's up to you guy's and gal's "masters of the nano!" to rip my build to shreds if you want and help me think of a new one before liverock hits the door.

 

Aquaclear 30 filter

Skilter 250

Ug filters plasics tubing, uptakes and the like

Many hang on back mariland, whisper's filters

14 or so 10g empty tanks

6 ugly small hang inside canister filters

4 or 5 10g airpumps. and a 60g airpump

varrious airhoseing

 

Ok the rest is up to you. Please no glass or acrylic cutting. Im not good at it.

 

Im going to need a good protien skimmer. If you know of somwhere I can order a good one please post it.

 

If you know of any good florecent bulbs I can put on my walmart 20g hood pls post em.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read my rants and ugly long (and im sure you've heard it all before) post.

 

:P

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you could use the aquaclear 30 as a refugium. so lil pods can hang out in there and be free fish food:)

 

i wouldnt use any bio balls of any sort (NO3 city!)

 

lots of liverock is key

 

no need for that dead coral you have in there. fine for decoration early, but its just gonna get layed with yuck. it wont be be pretty anymore. but if you want it in there, so be it:) its your tank

 

not sure what else i should write.

 

not sure what the heck a skilter is. i have a custom sump in my 37 gallon, and i'm using the aquaclear 50 without the stuff, just live rock rubble in my 10g nano.

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elchicodelgado

Just a few quick thoughts-

---Crushed Coral-usually not very bueno-creates high nitrate levels. I would ditch it now while the ditchings good. Sorry, I know it sucks but it is sooooooo much easier now than later. If you look around the site a little bit I think you'll find that I'm not making that up :)

---Lighting needs a BIG upgrade for corals but it is fine for fishies and live rock. You need more later but hey you will just be cycling now and you've got time. You don't really wanna hit it w/ too much right now anyways b/c you'll get algae.

---Honestly you are fine w/ everything else. HOB filters kinda suck but i've got no filter in my nano at all except some purigen so do your water changes and you will be fine!

----Also, if you want fish only then you can leave it as is b/c the nitrate issue with the crushed coral won't really hurt those guys, it's the corals and inverts you gotta worry about.

----Oh yeah, one more thing-clean up crew!!!! Get 4-5 hermies, 4-5 astreas (not as efficient as turbos but not as lunky and disruptive either) and a good variety of ceriths, nassarius, etc.

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Helpinsmepls
Just a few quick thoughts-

---Crushed Coral-usually not very bueno-creates high nitrate levels. I would ditch it now while the ditchings good. Sorry, I know it sucks but it is sooooooo much easier now than later. If you look around the site a little bit I think you'll find that I'm not making that up :)

---Lighting needs a BIG upgrade for corals but it is fine for fishies and live rock. You need more later but hey you will just be cycling now and you've got time. You don't really wanna hit it w/ too much right now anyways b/c you'll get algae.

---Honestly you are fine w/ everything else. HOB filters kinda suck but i've got no filter in my nano at all except some purigen so do your water changes and you will be fine!

----Also, if you want fish only then you can leave it as is b/c the nitrate issue with the crushed coral won't really hurt those guys, it's the corals and inverts you gotta worry about.

----Oh yeah, one more thing-clean up crew!!!! Get 4-5 hermies, 4-5 astreas (not as efficient as turbos but not as lunky and disruptive either) and a good variety of ceriths, nassarius, etc.

 

Thanks for the post. So what should I buy instead of the coral in the pic's? I was told that eventually my LR would make the coral live as well.

 

As far as live corals I was not planning on buying any unless LR comes with them on it. This is a grey area for me. I really still dont know anything about this and if my tank can live without buying live coral thats what I would want to do.

 

Same thing on the inverts the cleanup crew would be considered inverts right? So im lost on what to do and when I absolutly must do it.

 

Thanks

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alexmurovec

well i pretty much forgot all the questions you had by the time i got to the end of the thread, so i'll try my best.

 

you are going to want to replace that crushed coral, which i believe you know already. i wouldn't have added that flake food, let your cycle go naturally, but its a little to late now. nothing too harmful, people do it all the time. i dont know what will grow on that dead coral, i would assume just algae, and maybe a coral if you super glue it on there. i think you would like a blue background better than the one on there. you say your powerheads are putting out a lot of flow, so as long as there are no dead spots you should be fine. i think 2 clowns and a small goby would be good in your tank. a yellow watchman goby would be nice. as for CUC, you could start off with a couple snails, and a couple hermits. i started with 2 astrea snails (best snail in most peoples eyes) and 2 red scarlet hermits (get mexican red legs if you can, not blue legs, scarlets are ok). later on once your water is a little mroe stable you could then add a shrimp. for lighting, you are going to need to upgrade, unless all you want is live rock and fish. live rock doesn't need any special lighting, but even if you dont want corals and have higher output lighting, you will see stuff grown back that was on the live rock at one time. a decent start at lighting would be compact floruesant. its a higher output flouresant bulb, but you cannot just get the bubls, you will need to get a hole light strip fixture. you could also go metal halide or T5 lighting. um i think i might have got at least half of the questions, post anymore if you got em.

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Helpinsmepls
you could use the aquaclear 30 as a refugium. so lil pods can hang out in there and be free fish food:)

 

i wouldnt use any bio balls of any sort (NO3 city!)

 

lots of liverock is key

 

no need for that dead coral you have in there. fine for decoration early, but its just gonna get layed with yuck. it wont be be pretty anymore. but if you want it in there, so be it:) its your tank

 

not sure what else i should write.

 

not sure what the heck a skilter is. i have a custom sump in my 37 gallon, and i'm using the aquaclear 50 without the stuff, just live rock rubble in my 10g nano.

 

Theres a pic on this forum of dead coral like this starting to be covered by coriline alge. I think it would look nice.

 

Now for an update for those who are interested. I took out the crushed coral and added CaribSea Aragonite Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand. The arago-live around here is all expired and smelled and was more cource than what I just purchased.

 

I will post some more pictures once I get my rock tommorrow. Wish my rock luck so it wont have any bad hitchikers.

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i think your going to want more LR then 10 pounds in a 20g tank... it should be more like 1+ pounds of LR per gallon, keep in mind that this is your main filtration for the tank... 10lbs in my 10g doesnt even look like enough

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Helpinsmepls
i think your going to want more LR then 10 pounds in a 20g tank... it should be more like 1+ pounds of LR per gallon, keep in mind that this is your main filtration for the tank... 10lbs in my 10g doesnt even look like enough

 

Your right. Im waiting to see the quailty of my first batch before I buy more. Also I have 2 large pieces of the dead coral im going to add to also serve as a surface to be populated by bactiria. Also the place I ordered from finishes curing batches of LR once a week. Im thinking if what I get looks good I will order 10more pounds and add a bit of bio diversity because it will be a different batch.

 

I realize im opening my tank for unwanted hitchikers twice. But im also opening it to welome ones as well.

 

Also wanted to add that I purchased a aquaclear 300 and threw in some walmart pollyfiber in.

 

I rinced my sand a few times and the water became cloudy. I know that it will clear up. It already is clearing much faster with the pollyfiber. That stuff works great and a great price. 1.98 for a large bag. Thanks for the idea guys. I got the idea from here: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=117717

 

I also have a funny story from today. I went to a LFS and I asked him if he had any peppermint shrimp. I knew he did not by looking at his tanks first before I asked. Then he said yes I have 1. So I said ok, and he shows me the following:

 

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Di....cfm?pCatId=696

 

then http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Di....cfm?pCatId=697.

 

LOL,

 

Some of his snails looked nice but none were marked. and to me they look allot allike so I did not bother asking what kind he had.

 

I know im not to add anything till my rock gets cured again, and my tank cycles and gets the brown alge then green. I just was curious what he would say.

 

I truthfully don't have any good LFS around.

 

I have petco and I went there today to look around and all the tanks were empty, anouther lol. and closer inspection there were fish. but only pieces of fish. They removed the bodies but theft small pieces like eyes and heads. I expected no less.

 

Then I have 2 other personaly owned salt/fresh fish pet stores. One had dead clowns in the tank. Wich made me crindge. I love clowns thier personality is so interesting.

 

The the other that I told you about above the one with the shrimp. So im stuck with online ordering and taking my chances. Allthough a smaller chance then any of my local stores :)

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alexmurovec

i thought i had it cheap buying little boxes of poly filter from the pet store. then i read that same forum and found out 100% poly fill is the same stuff, and they sell it at walmar! sure does the trick.

 

post us some pics when it clears up B)

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Helpinsmepls
i thought i had it cheap buying little boxes of poly filter from the pet store. then i read that same forum and found out 100% poly fill is the same stuff, and they sell it at walmar! sure does the trick.

 

post us some pics when it clears up B)

 

 

Thanks for looking in on me :)

 

Pics will be up tommorrow after I get my LR in. I intend on posting pics at every stage of my rock growth. Im sure Ill be asking "is this a good critter" "is this bad critter" "what is this thing" lol.

 

So bare with me.

 

and after all the hype my LR better do the trick. If I have to order from somwhere else it will be a long wait because im broke.

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alexmurovec

who knows, maybe you will have very porous rock, and 10 lbs will be alot more than you thought it would be. then again, you could have lots of dense rock, and it could be alot less than you think. is there any pet stores close by that sell live rock? you could go with the 10 lbs you will get tomorrow, and add like 5 lbs from the local pet store. then theres no wait on the next batch of 10 lbs, which will just extend your cycle alot.

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Helpinsmepls
who knows, maybe you will have very porous rock, and 10 lbs will be alot more than you thought it would be. then again, you could have lots of dense rock, and it could be alot less than you think. is there any pet stores close by that sell live rock? you could go with the 10 lbs you will get tomorrow, and add like 5 lbs from the local pet store. then theres no wait on the next batch of 10 lbs, which will just extend your cycle alot.

 

So far ive not found any good Local Pet stores. The guy that tried to sell me the "peppermint" had some LR but he had a Aiptasia Anemone growing from under one. This LR was centered in his large display tank and the Aiptasia Anemone was displayed like it was a good thing to have. I was suppried he only had one growing but then again the LR looked like it was just placed in the tank with a sticker on the glass saying not for sale yet.

 

I plan on making a trip sometime when I have the time to check petstores an hour or two away from my house.

 

The petstore with the dead clown in the tank I called this moring to check for a blub they were alittle pricy but they said they did have peppermint shrimp. 2 for $25. Are Inverts more apt if they are sick just to make themselfs or other inverts sick or would what they have be bad for fish also?

 

What do you guy's think about quarenteen tanks for new purchased livestock (fish LR and inverts) do they all need to be quarenteened or just some?

 

Oh and this is the bulb I ended up with: http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_det...030061&Ne=2

 

Mainly I purchased a different bulb than the one that came with my walmart hood because I wanted something for my inverts (by inverts I meen CUC guys) and coralline algae. Do you think this bulb is any better than what came with my hood from walmart? Im not sure about if the bulb I have listed will help the coralline algae much. The only life I plan on having in my tank is the Fish inverts and whatever comes on my LR. Plus the price was right for the bulb.

 

Do you think I will need a calcium additive to keep my corraline algae alive? I would rather not have to put any in my tank if I don't have to.

 

I plan on getting some cheato later. I have the aquaclear 300, is there a way I can keep cheato in there along with the pollyfiber as long as I change the fiber when needed? Im thinking I can buy some eggmesh type plastic to make a additional divider in the aquaclear so I can have both?

 

Ive read on here that Purigen is a good filtration media if used correctly. Any harm in using Purigen / carbon/ ammonia absorber pouches? I purchased a bag but am going to wait for my LR to cure and my cycle to complete before using it.

 

Any harm in putting this in the fuge/ aquaclear with cheato and polly fiber?

 

One additional question, can I put cheato in while the tank is cycling?

 

Thanks for the answers. Will be interesting to read what you think.

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Helpinsmepls

Ok got my rock about 3 hours ago. Here it is. I also need a ID on some floating things I found after I put the LR in. These appeared even thou I prerinced the rock.

 

post-27630-1177026244_thumb.jpg

 

an an id on this as well, may be to early to tell (will put in anouther post out of room.

 

ID pls:

 

post-27630-1177026671_thumb.jpg

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Helpinsmepls

I forgot to add my test resolts.

 

Here is from 2 day's ago when I had the Crushed coral:

 

Temp: 76

 

Ph 8.2

Amonia 5.0

Nitrite 0.2

Nitrate 2.5

Alk 2.5

 

From today after LR addition, remeber I changed out the Crushed Coral for Argonite Sand last night:

 

Temp 76

Ph 8

Amonia 5.0

Nitrite 0.2

Nitrate 5.0

Alk 2.5

 

Thanks for looking.

 

ditch the plastic

 

The 2 artificial fake purple coral are gifts. Im keeping them.

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Ok got my rock about 3 hours ago. Here it is. I also need a ID on some floating things I found after I put the LR in. These appeared even thou I prerinced the rock.

 

post-27630-1177026244_thumb.jpg

 

an an id on this as well, may be to early to tell (will put in anouther post out of room.

 

ID pls:

 

post-27630-1177026671_thumb.jpg

 

I have both of these in my tank too... anyone know what they are?

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alexmurovec

Post 13

 

maybe the guy at the lfs was curing the rock in his tank, and that is why it was not for sale. if so, it probably would have been an all rock tank, not a display tank though.

 

the light you just bought is a flouresant, and to everyone on here, that is not good enough. but being provided the info that you are only keeping fish, live rock, and whatever else might grow on it, that light will be fine.

 

coraline algae will start to grow over time, and it doesn't only feed on light. the light you bought wont help it too much like it said, but its still a little help. as for dosing, i would not dose, especially if you dont even have any corals.

 

you can put cheato and polyfil in your HOB filter. you dont even need a divider, i just have the polyfil stuffed in the first part of my filter, the part that seperates the intake tube from the main unit, if you know what i mean. then in the main unit, i have cheato and live rock in there. what you can do, is break off the sides of your filter cartridge thingy, and use the bottom part as a grate so nothing espaces from the cheato and goes into the main tank. you can have cheato in there from the beginning of the cycle. thats what i did.

 

i do not have any experience with using carbon and all that other stuff. from what i've read, most people just use polyfil and cheato. some people use carbon, and more and more often i have heard of people using phosphate cartridges if they have algae problems.

 

Post 14

 

the first picture is really couldn't tell you what it is, looks like a shell to me. more clarity would be helpful.

 

the second picture is to far from a distance, maybe looks like some kind of tube coming off the rock, i dont know. you seem to know what aiptasia is, so i'm assuming its not that, otherwise you would be aware of it.

 

hope this helped,

 

alex

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Helpinsmepls

New pictures and tests. Also moved my rock around to give fish more places to play when I get them.

 

I added my protien skimmer now. The Silicone has cured so I put it in. Now you will see my slapped together skimmer. It makes the yucky brown froth in the cup so im pleased.

 

And there is a pic of my walmart pollyfiber. This is a new batch I put in 24 hours ago, works great, and yes I replace it often. My Ph has been .2 points lower ever since I put in the argonite. Im thinking crushed coral kept my tank a bit more buffered than the argonite.

 

Salt: 1.024

Temp: 77

Ph: 8

Amm: 5

Ni: 10

Na: 10

Alk: 2.4

 

post-27630-1177198835_thumb.jpgpost-27630-1177198852_thumb.jpgpost-27630-1177198861_thumb.jpgpost-27630-1177198874_thumb.jpgpost-27630-1177198886_thumb.jpgpost-17231-1131849762_thumb.jpg

 

Couple more pics.

 

Thanks for looking

 

post-27630-1177199182_thumb.jpgpost-27630-1177199193_thumb.jpg

post-27630-1177198901_thumb.jpg

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Looks good...

 

How much LR do you have? I might add some more.

 

Still no one identified those pictures in post 14 :angry:

 

Did you make that skimmer from instructions in the DIY forum?

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alexmurovec
Looks good...

 

How much LR do you have? I might add some more.

 

Still no one identified those pictures in post 14 :angry:

 

Did you make that skimmer from instructions in the DIY forum?

 

some good DIY work bud. rock work looks good, but personally, i dont like the dead coral thing. i think your tank has alot of potential though. if it was my tank, i would add a decent amount more rock to try to cover up the filter tubes, heater, and all that other stuff in the back. but its up to you. looking foward to seeing progress.

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Helpinsmepls
Looks good...

 

How much LR do you have? I might add some more.

 

Still no one identified those pictures in post 14 :angry:

 

Did you make that skimmer from instructions in the DIY forum?

 

Hi, It's 15 pounds of LR. The shipper gave me 5 extra pounds. The skimmer was made from a old skimmer I purchased years ago and never used. I tried to get the link to work from the coralife website but it's busted or somthing.

 

Anyway I took the uptake tubes from a Undergravel filter and 2 waterbottles. Put on some plummerstape and silicone to make sure it stay's together and put it in.

 

I paid including shipping $50 for the LR, but if I go to buy the 5 more pounds to make it 20lbs of LR it would cost me almost $40 because the shipping is so much. And my two local shops are a joke. I told you about the one with the "so called peppermint shrimp" and the display tank, and that's what it was his display tank lol, he not only had LR with the aiptasia anemone but corals and zoo's in that tank also. It would not have been hard for him to zap that aiptais becuase each of the rocks were seperated far appart.

 

Then the other store I have is anouther story (the one with the dead clowns). I went there because my mom wanted a few livebearers. So I asked him to grab me 2 male guppies and a female. He told me they were too small to sex. (These guppies already had thier colors on thier tails. Thats how old they were.) I don't know about you guy's but I think guppies are pretty easy to sex. So we ended up with 3 males ;)

 

Then I asked if he had any chaeto for sale.... He's like "what?" "What's it do?"

So I told him it's a alge that absorbs nitrates and as it grows you cut some off of it and throw it away so your effectivly getting rid of unwanted nutriants and you put it in a fuge. "what's a fuge" is his next statment.....

 

So he takes me to the chemicals for saltwater tanks and points all allong the shelf and tells me that's all he has. So I asked him who I would talk to that runs the saltwater tanks. He says it's him, and he has a pristine 400g tank at home that he never changes the water in or does anything cept feed the fish. I understand that some stores might not have the chaeto, but I would think anyone running a wet/dry filter would have come accross an artical or somthing about photosynthetic organisms.

 

So anyway, yah im not 100% pleased with my tank because I have all the pictures in this fourm to compair it with and well mines not even close. But so far this has been a $300 bill when I thought I was just going to easily get back into saltwater keeping and just have to buy some salt.

 

My prievious setup from years ago was 15g tall and a skilter and a heater and a walmart hood and Crushed coral. I kept a clown and anemone. They were both from petco wich makes it more interesting that I was able to keep them both alive. Then I had a poweroutage that lasted for 4 days. I know you know what happend to them so I wont explain and im just repeating myself because most of this is in my first post :o

 

Im going to save up for when I need my cuc that I found online for $24 shipped. Down the road if this tank works out the way it is I plan on buying a larger one or just moving it to my 70g if my albino channel catfish ever dies. I read they can live for 30years. He's around 10 now.

 

Thanks for your opinions. Im not ignoring your suggestions it's all bout the money B)

 

Also one question: I have a cat that loves to watch my protien skimmer, once I turn off my lights to go to sleep she knocks off the collection cup and makes a mess so I turn it off at night. I don't want to get mad at her. (I think she is protecting me from it, and she does the same to ppl that come over to visit she hits them in the leg if they get near me.) Plus she's had a hard life, her old owner left her for dead when he moved away and lied to the police and said she was just a stray he was feeding. (He moved to live on his fathers "farm" and put his family in a tent because this guy's father said he had no room for his grandchildren in his house!)

 

This was a deadbeat dad that thought if he gave his son a cat that it would make up for him being a lazy drunkin bum. You know the type, screen door swinging and banging the house all night. The police having to settle family disputes every other day. I have pictures of the police drawing guns on him :lol: And the kids were no better. They used to throw this cat to each other like a softball in the yard.

 

So with all that said I'm just wondering if my tank will be affected very much from the skimmer not running at night. Fully stocked this tank will have 2 clowns a goby and a cuc.

 

Thanks

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