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24 gallon Atlantis


megan

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I agree with Tiny.

 

 

O.K., so the mushroom ate it, or should I say the starfish ate it! :o It was looking really nasty and kept falling down and finally I guess the starfish figured he'd put him out of his misery. My other shroom that was the same kind on the same rock has since split. It isn't the prettiest split I've ever seen (its the only one I've seen), but I think it will look a little less tattered in a day or two.

 

My Mandarin is doing great! He looks so good. :P I haven't fed anything in a few days since I added the copepods on Tues. I hadn't fed the blenny anything either cuz I think he eats those and the green algae, so just this morning I put a bit of seaweed in. I pulled out my two pieces of LR that had the most red algae and brushed it off and I just syphoned my sand to get any poo. It is looking really nice. I need to clean my filter in a minute.

 

I'll take my water to a different store today and see what they say. I want someone else to test my water and I'll let you know what my perams are as I always find them to be just fine. I think you answered my question about the water. It is not cloudy like there is mung hanging out, it just seems to have lots of particles floating. The water at the fish store is like looking straight through crystal clear glass. You are right though, I cant spend 24 hrs working on it. As it is, I mess with it daily for an hour or so.

 

I'll get some new pics in a little bit, and thanks for all of the help. I feel so flattered that you guys are watching my thread and am sure that it is like a million others out there. It is a huge resource for me. My kids are learning a lot too. They love to help and watch and ask questions. We go out a lot during the day to Sea World and our local Science Center and parks and stuff, but their favorite thing is going to the fish store! I heard my 4 year old explaining why the clean up crews are good for the tank and what their job is to the store owner the other day! :D

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fraggle rockette

you know, i've had no trouble keeping corals EXCEPT mushrooms, and that started when i tried to propogate them and they sat in a gross cup for too long before i realized it. that being said, they still off and on spit their guts in my tank and dont like it- the only thing i think is that the Ca levels might be too high? there's really nothing else... idk, this might be the same for you too tho.

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I'll check that out. I do additives, but I only add them every 3 or so nights. Good point.

 

I'm glad to see you here! You are so cute! You remind me of a cuter me when I was your age and doing this stuff. I was obsessed, but that was pre-internet and the LFS was gross. No one was doing this but really wealthy people who could afford to pay someone to keep it up.

 

How long have you been doing this and what are your tank specs?

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alexmurovec

awesome close up of that one mushroom, you are getting a hang on your camera. your pictures probably take alot of room and take longer to add to posts and what not, so there is a way to make it smaller...

 

just open microsoft paint, in accessories, then click open, and get your picture and press ok. your picture will then appear pretty big in the paint program, but dont worry. all you need to do, is just go file, save, and it will compress your picture way smaller, and the size should still be the same.

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firstimereefer

What kind of additives are you using? Is it a part A & B? What kind of starfish do you have? I would suggest just testing your own water instead of having to always run to the store to do it. Be patient it will come along I ran into problems my first couple of monthes, but my ticker says it has been 6 monthes since I started does that qualify me as some what knowledgable now??? :D

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I am on a Mac. I think I will start using Photobucket. Thanks for the advise though!

 

I am using an A and B additive. I only use it every couple of days. My starfish is a brittle star. I had one before who is wasn't aggressive and this one keeps to himself, but I guess the mushroom was too far gone and begging for it.

 

And, I can't wait to get to 6 months. I will totally feel like a pro then! :lol:

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alexmurovec

i have a mac too, but use my family's pc for simple pictures like that. maybe when i get some corals i will use the mac for pictures and enhance them and what not.

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I took a bunch of photos this morning, but then I went to the store today and bought a bunch of stuff. They replaced the shroom that died, I got a cool orange one instead and then I bought some orange zoos, a small torch, and a gorgonian-sp??? (I gotta look that up) with some zoos on the base of it. I'll post pics of all that tomorrow when I have daylight.

 

Here are the photos I took today...

 

Fire Shrimp Finally Came Out

 

PC300040.jpg

 

Serpent Star

 

PC310061.jpg

 

Mushroom Split

 

PC300007.jpg

 

Still Connected on One Side

 

PC300026.jpg

 

My Baby is Bulking Up

 

PC310075.jpg

 

 

PC310074.jpg

 

Good Shot

 

PC310073.jpg

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firstimereefer

I have heard they can be aggresive the bigger they get. The only starfish I keep are the ones that get fed to my pair of Harlequin shrimp. I know serpent star can get huge, I have seen massive ones at my lfs.

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I might have to get rid of him then. I have had two mushrooms vanish, including the one that was splitting in the previous photos. They had fallen off of their rocks way too many times and I kept moving them, but now I can't find them. The starfish doesn't look like he's eaten, but I can't think of any other possibility.

 

Here are some pictures of my tank finally looking a little less bare and more like a little reef.

 

Full tank shot...

 

PC310001.jpg

 

Closer up...

 

PC310002.jpg

 

Orange zoas

 

PC310004.jpg

 

Blue/Purple Gorgonia

 

PC310008.jpg

 

Gorgonia again

 

 

 

PC310009.jpg

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A little. That has been my problem. I don't think it is bad, but like I was saying on pg 3, it is not like the tanks at the store. I'd say that the first pic is a good representation. What do you think? I have cut way back on the feedings, but we have been fiddling a lot b/c stuff keeps getting knocked around by my turbo.

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Anyone, anyone??? :huh:

 

Also, I would love some suggestions on what last fish to get. I have a starry blenny and a mandarin. I really like the red fire fish, and I like all of the triggers, but I don't know what is compatible with who and I want something that swims, not just hops around the rocks.

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with the mandarin in there, you really don't have that much of a choice of fish to add imo. most fish will outcompete it for the food. you don't want to overfeed even more to compensate as that starts a spiraling-effect of growing problems.

 

plus, the bioload factor of the size of the tank is another concern. don't get me wrong, i'm not saying you can't fit another fish in there eventually. i'm just saying you're adding them a lot quicker than i'd recommend. sometimes it takes me months or a year to determine if the system's strong enough to take another "whatever". (i reef a lot different than most though)

 

if you still want to go ahead though, maybe a clown or citron goby. or neon goby if you want something that moves. but with most other fish, you run the immediate risk of bullying the mandarin and longer term risk of needing to feed a lot more nutrients than your system can currently handle. i think you still need to let your entire reef filter mature more. this includes the typical biofilter, the cryptic-zone filter, and the microorganism filter (some call the last one their 'detritivores' but i include livestock much smaller than even 'pods in my definition). the latter two can take up to a year to mature, hence the popular concept of a "mature tank" needing a year to qualify as "mature" or "stable" imo.

 

i'd wait and see for another month or so. then start looking around if something catches your eye and plan accordingly. hth

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Tiny...

 

Thank God you're here!

 

I am not adding any fish for 4-6 months at the earliest!!! I am still concerned daily about water quality, filtration and current bio load. I am just doing basic research now to make sure I don't make the same mistake I did in jumping right in with the mandarin. I really want to focus on my corals now anyway. You are a reefing master and I want to do it like you!

 

Please explain the filters that you mentioned and what I need to do to manage them. I know I have said it before, but I do not plan on adding any more animals short of a snail or two as needed. I may even give back my star fish, but I found the mushrooms I thought I'd lost, so I guess he is not a problem after all.

 

Did you see I got some corals this weekend tho? Do you think that is a problem? I was hoping that would be bennificial and it satisfies my need to spend $$$ and add to the tank. :bowdown:

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firstimereefer

Wait on another fish for now, let you tank mature. I waited a month in between each fish with the exception of the pair of clowns.

 

Are you testing your water at home yet some tank params would help us out at determining why your tank is cloudy. What kind of filtering media are you using? Even though the star didn't eat you mushrooms, I would still consider trading it in. I think he is going to cause you troubes in the future. The only good starfish is a dead one that my Harlequins ate.

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You are a reefing master and I want to do it like you!
thank you for the compliment. (i'm going to skip the dirty joke on the 2nd part. :lol: )

 

less is better, is my motto for reefing. let the reef run itself, just make sure things don't go too out of the "norm".

 

Please explain the filters that you mentioned and what I need to do to manage them.
the biofilter is just the beneficial bacteria most people indirectly measure for with the nitrogen cycle. this will establish and repopulate itself as the tank ages. there might be ups and downs but most of it is done by "itself".

 

the cryptic zone filter is something/term steve tyree coined a few years back. it's not strictly the zone underneath the rock but for ease of discussion that's where i'm discussing. this zone comprises mostly sessile organisms that filter feed, e.g. sponges, bacteria, forams, etc. it's my opinion that these significantly aid the overall filtration of the system (i'm talking about besides the bene bacteria most speak of when talking about LR).

 

my current display tank was setup partly to be able to actually peer deep inside the rockwork and observe inside as well as outside/top of the rockwork. most of the space/area of LR is internal. from what i've seen, as much life occurs inside as on top of the rock (maybe not in equivalent biomass but just sheer numbers).

 

most of the time you can't really actively "raise/keep" this cryptic zone (very difficult). best thing you can do is to just keep a very rich calcium input and a well-rounded ecosystem. i've found more (visible) growth with richer calcium addition but this is mostly sponges and more easily seen organisms and not a true measure of everything in that zone.

 

the microorganism filter is partly a detritivore crew and partly the rest of the lit zone's microorganisms that help complete the ecosystem. some of this is brought in via live sand/rock or fragments of very "live" rock, e.g. bases of corals from the wild. some packets of detritivores are also very rich in a wide spectrum of these organisms (worms, pods, other crustaceans, bacteria, etc.).

 

this discussion really is a bit more complicated than a typical setup and i don't really want to confuse the discussion with it. suffice to say, more time is needed to allow each of the above a chance to develop into a functioning aspect. there's a lot of factors that help or deter each.

 

imo, your best option now is just time/waiting though. without indicators to guide you, we'd be shooting in the dark. i'd follow the general guidelines (good water, good light, ca/alk, not too much bioload) and that should get you in the "right" direction. later on, you can tweak it further (tyree's books are also good aids). hth

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Megan, what filtration are you running? There are several different ways to "polish" your water, depending on what you are running in your system.

 

1. Stop messing with your tank. This is the main cause of your cloudy water IMO. Some stiring of your substrate is inevitable, but my tanks have always done better when I keep my hands out of them. This will help with water clarity and probably water chemistry-no matter how well you wash, your skin oils, etc. still leach into the tank when you are messing with it.

 

2. ALGONE. IMO this is the #1 filtration and water polisher must. I cannot recommend this enough. It helps flatline your nutrient spikes and since your tank has been setup for awile, it shouldn't have negative effects on your bio-filter. Again, Algone rocks. It has to be changed periodically, but for 9 dollars per bag, it is the way to go.

 

3. Carbon. Activated carbon will ionically attact particles from the water column and trap them within the mass of the carbon, effectively removing them and polishing the water. Most people will only run carbon for a week or so every month to few months because particles removed from the water column begin to break down, effectively creating a nutrient trap in your filter. So, if you go with carbon, dont leave it in your tank for more than 10-14 days before removing.

 

Let me know what you are running now, and we will figure out what is best for your filtration and for polishing your water.

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I am not testing at home yet. I had it done on Sat. and they said everything looked great. My numbers were o.k. (they said). I think my nitrites and trates were 0 and the others were 8 and -0.01???? I don't remember b/c I don't totally understand them.

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As for you, Tiny...

 

I have three babies, I don't do "it" anymore!

 

Hold on I gotta finish watching Heroes. I'll be righ back!

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Alrighty then...

 

For filtration, I use a Pura Pad. I have two pieces stacked on top of the other so as the water has to go through it. My LFS says to keep it as natural as possible so they don't do sponges and carbon and such. They just have a small piece of the pura pad in the first chamber.

 

I am trying really hard to leave everything alone. I have had some stuff get knocked around so I put it back and I had been trying to syphon poo so it doesn't throw everything out of whack. I am barely feeding, like a tiny bit every other day.

 

I hadn't heard of Algone. It sounds fabulous. And the filter suggestions too, but I'm scared of introducing anything unnatural. What do you think Tiny?? First Timer?? I love the notion of "polishing" my water!

 

:grouphug: Thank you so much Tiny for taking the time with me. I really apreciate it! :grouphug: I really hope it is not wasted on me. I want to do this right and can't believe how much there is to know. Although, I have learned so much already. I told another newby today to slow down as they were PACKING a 10g full of fish!

 

I love you guys!!!

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As for you, Tiny...

 

I have three babies, I don't do "it" anymore!

that's funny. i can say the exact same thing! :lol:

 

altho my big baby's bigger than me now! :unsure:

 

i'm worried one day he'll realize when i tell him to do something (e.g. clean his room) and he says "no", well there's not much i can do about it. :P

 

as for the water polishing, i'd second the carbon. i use it 24/7 and change out every 2~4 weeks (but i'm a lazy sob). i also run a lazy tank with predominantly softies so "need" the wide-spectrum chemical filtration. at least i think i do.

 

as for algone, i've never used it. so i can't really comment on it. i've heard of it but i thought it was an algae-oriented product. i don't find algae as an "issue" but rather an "indicator" so i don't really prescribe to "algae products". but again, i don't know anything about that particular product, sorry.

 

but i do use Poly-Filters as my other wide-spectrum chemical filter media. i like Poly-Filters because it changes color as it becomes saturated. an easy/quick indicator, plus the actual media/pad can be shaped into any form and fit any filter. a little pricey $4~$5 a pad but it can be cut up into multiple "units".

 

i'm still of the school that the water could always be cleaner but i'm not an absolute believer of such anymore (long story). still an advocate though so almost any additional appropriate filtration should be good. hth

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