Killing the Canister Filter Myth

[ninjafish]

Hello all,

If there is one thing that I can contribute to this hobby, it is putting an end to the phrase "canister filters are not for SW" or "they are nitrate factories".

Some nights I lie awake in bed thinking about all the nano tanks I've seen that would have been really nice if they didn't have a crummy little hang-on filter that has been stuffed with 3/4 of a lb of LR rubble, with a powerhead crammed beside it for extra flow.

 

The origin of the CF Myth

A canister filter will add nitrates to the water if:

1) You run it with all the crappy filter media and floss that's usually included.

AND

2) You don't clean the filter media properly.

 

But what if you filled the canister filter with LR rubble (and in my case, chaeto) like you do with your hang-on?

How is that any different? It is different - it's better:

1) the canister filter will hold many times more LR = better filtration capacity

2) will provide more flow, eliminating the need for extra powerheads

3) only the intake and outlets visible in the tank, making the display look much cleaner.

 

Please pass this on the next time you hear someone say 'canister filters aren't for saltwater'.

 

Without a canister filter, this tank would not have been possible:

http://www.truenorthreef.com/PicoMovie.wmv

 

Good luck out there,

 

- Chad

[Dustmop336]

If you do decide to run it with just LR, do you still have to light the canister filter? Most of the canister filters are not clear enough for light penetration except for the magnum.

[ninjafish]

Hey Dustmop!

No LR does not need any light - it will still do all its filtering in the dark.

The only reason I added light to my canister is because I wanted to grow macro algae inside it too. And I drilled through the top and added submersible lights to the inside .

 

Cheers,

 

- Chad

[Dustmop336]

I have an Eheim canister as well, one of the old ones though. Can you show me exactly how you were able to accomplish this light modification and create a tight seal with out water leakage, and what kind of light. Thanks

[ninjafish]

I lucked out on my first try and found that a 5watt halogen bulb is more than sufficient for growing macro algae. I don't want to tell anyone to drill their canister filters... but... if your gonna, this is what I did :

 

I bought a submersible 5w halogen pond light (get the kind that allows you to replace the bulb - they do burn out). I cut the plug off and drilled a tiny hole in my canister filter housing - so small that I could barely thread the power cord through while pushing and pulling from both ends (this alone makes it practically water tight), after that, I siliconed the inside and outside of the casing - just to be sure - and wired the plug back onto the cord. HTH

 

- Chad

[DudE31]

to be honest with you i use both canister filters and a few HOB filters and to say the least the canister filters aren't the greatest in terms of flow... i have a fluval 104 canister filter (i got it for free:)) on my 25 gallon and it barely does a four times turnover rate... that is with nothing in it ... i tossed some liverock and carbon in there and i can honestly say it reduced that turnover rate to about 2.5... although the canister filter has the advantage of being hidden the flow rate in comparison to a HOB and the price is not enough to justify switching over from a HOB to a canister ... i do like my canister but the flow is dismal and in order to get a decent turnover rate for a nano (if it was the only means of circulation as you are saying with no more powerheads) i would have needed as a minumum to go with the fluval 404 or 405 as my only means of circulation and that would only provide me with a tunrover rate of approximately 13.6 times per hour and i can assure you with a single intake and output that i would have dead spots and algae problems ... i think that i canister filter and a few powerheads would be a good combo or what i have with a canister 2 HOB and a powerhead would be optimal but a canister on its own would not cut it IMO

Edit: and look at the canister you have on ure pico... it works but doing that on a larger tank is not practical IMHO

[Daemonfly]

"Canister filters aren't for SW" is true, in general, for the most part

 

We just don't use them as normal "canister filters". Same way we don't use AC500 fuges as regular "HOB filters". They become "HOB 'fuges" & "Canister 'fuges".

[ninjafish]

"Canister filters aren't for SW" is true, in general, for the most part

 

We just don't use them as normal "canister filters". Same way we don't use AC500 fuges as regular "HOB filters". They become "HOB 'fuges" & "Canister 'fuges".

 

Haha right on - here's another one.

 

 

 

Dude31,

I don't have any experience with Fluvel. I have always stuck with eheims and my last one put out 280gph and gave me almost too much flow in my 12" (7.5gal) cube. I guess all canister filters aren't the same.

 

- Chad

[ryzilla]

best canisters for price and flow are the rena filstar. 250gph for xp1 $59 through $65. You can even find free shipping for them on websites.

[ninjafish]

Ya, I have actually been watching them on ebay. I have a FW friend who uses one and is really impressed.

I guess if you were going to do my lighting mod, you wouldn't feel so bad drilling a $65 canister - the first eheim I did, my hands were shaking - I thought I was about to destroy it

 

- Chad

[wav3form]

I don't think you really demystified anything about canister filters. You modded it to work as a sump and added a light. Creative but hardly ground breaking.

[formerly icyuodd/icyoud2]

alright, heres my take on the subject of filters, hob or canister.

 

the idea of adding lr rubble to a filter (canister or hob) is based on increasing the amount of lr in the system. the idea is to add more area for the bacteria's that live in oxgen rich and oxygen void areas of the aquarium. the bacteria's in the oxygen rich area's change ammonia to nitrates. these bacteria's can be found on virtually any surface in the aquarium with good water movement. its the oxygen void area's that really need to be increased.

 

so adding tiny pieces of lr to a hob filter or canister is useless imo.

i mean your bombarding rubble with highly oxygenated water 24/7.

theres not much chance of oxygen void areas in any of those tiny little pieces in your filters.

 

now there are some exceptions. in a fish only tank with no lr (or a fresh water system) we have to insure these bacteria's have a safe place to hide when you clean the tank,sand etc. the filter/canister filter/bioballs provide a safe area for the bacteria's that live in oxygen rich area's so there always present in the system.

 

in a reef tank its redundant. ya might as well just add bio balls to the system. your just increasing oxygen rich areas.

[ninjafish]

I don't think you really demystified anything about canister filters. You modded it to work as a sump and added a light. Creative but hardly ground breaking.

 

My modifications to my cannister filter are not what the thread is about (there are other threads on that subject). I am saying, to the nano crowd, that a cannister filter (even unmodified) will provide better filtration, and look better, than the HOB filters that are so popular. The only reason people don't use cannister filters is because everyone is always quick to quote that "canister filters are not good in SW". This myth is simply not true - in fact, when it comes to nano tanks, they are ideally suited to the job!

 

- Chad

 

Formerly.

 

More LR and water volume and circualtion will always be a good thing for your system. You are trying to make an argument for anaerobic reactions - I would be really surprised if there are any nanos that have oxygen viod areas (there aren't that many larger tanks that do either). The Deep Sand Bed and coil denitrifier crowd are the only ones that have areas in their tanks where there is no oxygen.

This thread is posted in the nano forum for a reason. In most cases, HOB filters are the only choice people make for nano filtration - I am stating that a canister filter will be a big improvement over that. I believe that more people would use them if they weren't always getting the advise that canisters "are not for SW". Actually in the case of nanos, they are ideally suited for saltwater.

 

- Chad

[Raskal311]

I think the Myth is more for wetdry then a canister. Bioball + co2 = bad. A canister is great since its enclosed and does not introduce air bubbles in to the canister. But as far as macro in the canister, there wouldn't be any light for it to feed off of so that wouldn't work.

 

I have advice many of my customers to use a canister on a smaller tank and add rubble rock instead of bio balls. I also advise them to keep the mechanical media and clean them often.

[formerly icyuodd/icyoud2]

if you search the net, you'll find many of the leaders in this hobby saying things like this.

 

 

 

 

'Canister filters have several down sides. They have the potential of becoming clogged. When this happens, water stops flowing through the unit. As a result, the filter then becomes a growth bed for algae, slime, and hydrogen sulfide from the anaerobic decay of organics caught in the filter media. Thus, canister filters must be checked regularly to ensure that they are not clogged.

 

Alone, canister filters would have a hard time providing adequate filtration for a saltwater aquarium. However, they are a great supplement for other filtration devices, such as wet/dry filters. I recommend that if used, they be accompanied by an additional filtration device. "

 

 

 

as for oxygen void areas in the aquarium, our lr and sand are full of them, thats why we add it in the first place.

[ninjafish]

I think the Myth is more for wetdry then a canister. Bioball + co2 = bad. A canister is great since its enclosed and does not introduce air bubbles in to the canister. But as far as macro in the canister, there wouldn't be any light for it to feed off of so that wouldn't work.

 

I have advice many of my customers to use a canister on a smaller tank and add rubble rock instead of bio balls. I also advise them to keep the mechanical media and clean them often.

 

 

Sounds good Raskal,

Check out my threads or videos some time. I added submersable lights to the inside of my canister to grow macro. It does work, it works very well

 

- Chad

[Chupacabras]

I'm not sure this Winston Vaughan Schoenfeld character is a leader in the hobby, Icy . I do agree that a cannister filter, run as the instructions recommend, is of limited value in reefing.

 

The reason for saying they're not good for a reef is that you'll need to be fastidious in your maintenance to keep the cannister doing more good than harm and frankly, cannister maintenance is a PITA which I can't imagine undertaking every couple of weeks.

 

Even when dealing with rubble, that's a risk since all the crud that comes off of rock could very easily snag in the impeller.

 

I've never run any type of filtration in my reef tank, and I don't intend to start. The benefit of an unmodified cannister is of limited benefit in a properly set up reef, so much so that I would call it detrimental due to the required heavy maintenance schedule.

 

Edit: And yes, I'm talking cannisters being run as cannisters... when we're talking heavily modified cannisters acting as small refugiums, that's something else and I don't really think the two discussions have anything to do with each other.

[Kelpie]

I don't think you really demystified anything about canister filters. You modded it to work as a sump and added a light. Creative but hardly ground breaking.

 

 

It solved a lot of problems for many of us. It was a different way of thinking and I like it. In fact I'm modeling a system after it. I don't think anyone said that it was "groundbreaking" but no one to my knowledge had done it before either.

 

There sure are a lot of naysayers around here LOL.

[wav3form]

I think the main reasons people use HOB filters are ease of use and cost effectiveness. Quality canister filters are expensive and harder to maintain in comparison. All you're doing, and I said it before, is modifying a canister into a self contained refugium. That's it. You're not killing any myths here.

[ninjafish]

Formerly,

 

Haha that is what I am saying... your so called leaders have nixed canister filters and as a result, no one is using them.

 

As I said in my very first post - the problem with canister filters and the reason the leaders have said that, is because they are trying to run them with all the filter media and floss that come with the filters. I am saying not to do that - I am saying to take all of that out and just put LR rubble in - now it won't clog up and decrease your flow etc ect. It will be no different than if you put LR in your tank or HOB filter - except you will be able to add even more.

The supposed "problems" with canister filters in not specific to SW - if the FW guy doesn't clean his filter and allows it to get so plugged up water can't pass through it = that will cause problems too.

It is frustrating that this myth has become so deeply entrenched because the whole concept is absurd. It is baisically like saying "canister filters are no good because you can't totally neglect them without them causing problems"

I can call myself a leader in this hobby and tell you what to believe too. Or I can suggest that people stop and actually consider what this myth is talking about.

 

If you just run LR in the filter, it will increase your water volume and filtration capacity - but you won't have all the other media that can trap detritus and clog the filter.

 

A cannister filter is not the best form of filtration. I personally use sump/protein skimer/macro algae in my big tank. I am just suggesting that for those of us with nano tanks, a canister filter is much better, for a number of reasons, then the HOB filters that we are often forced to use.

 

- Chad

[MrAnderson]

I think what needs to be demystified is the point of this thread. The device used doesn't really make a difference as the type of filtration the device is performing.

 

Canister filters are designed primarily for mechanical and chemical filtration. Can they be modified for use as a biological filter? Sure. Used like that, I'm sure they're great.

 

Otherwise, any form of mechanical filtration in SW = a high maintenance proposition.

 

For my next trick I will be demystifying the myth of the overheating tank from a hanging pendant. All you have to do is retro in a CF!

[Sea Slug]

I've used them in the past and will never go back , IMO they are one big pain in the a** . Although they are effective , you MUST be on top of them ALWAYS ....to much work . If you don't have an overflow system HOB is the only to go for me effective and much easier to maintain . That being said thumbs up on converting your Ehiem into a mini fuge , looks good .

[wav3form]

This guy's delusional, he really thinks he's on to something here. You should see his thread at reefcentral.com. Now i'm convinced this guy is smoking meth or something crazy.

[formerly icyuodd/icyoud2]

I've never run any type of filtration in my reef tank, and I don't intend to start. The benefit of an unmodified cannister is of limited benefit in a properly set up reef, so much so that I would call it detrimental due to the required heavy maintenance schedule.

 

i totally agree, i've never run any sort of mechanical,chemical filtration in any of my systems. debrit settles in the slow area of my sump (bare bottom) and is easily removed during water changes.

 

right now i dont have a skimmer, have an over stocked aquarium and still maintain pristine water with minimal water changes (bi-weekly)

 

 

i've seen way too many canister filters fail (leak) it's messy.

 

15 years ago, along with the bio-life wet dry filtration, canisters where all the rage.

the fad passed quickly, and with good reason.

 

 

i'd be willing to bet in a year, you'll have removed the canister fuge from your system.

[ninjafish]

Sorry guys if you think I am crazy. And no crack here I promise.

 

Mr Anderson was really pointed out what I was tying to describe. Not using the canister as a mechanical filter with all the floss and filter media that can in turn trap detritus and polute your water - but use it as a biological filter the same as a sump with LR.

 

I was trying to state that if used that way, they don't have the drawbacks that give canister filters a bad name in this hobby and are the same as the HOB that have been converted to be biological filters - exept they are bigger and look better in the display.

 

Sorry for making it all more complicated than it needed to be. And thanks, Mr Anderson for adding some clarity.

Used as a boilogical filter, canister filters are a great option for SW.

 

Thanks,

 

- Chad