Can it be done?

[Signmom99]

I messed up.  Could have bought the eclipse 12g with a top that would accept a 32w retrofit, but no I let the LFS dude convince me the 13w compact light would be better.  Not happy now.  Retro won't go into this hood.  Anyway can corals that need lower light levels grow in a hood that has the 13w pc light?

 

Secondly, for all you reefers who have tried both methods - skimmers vs no skimmer, which way produces the best effect or affect on the tank when keeping fish & corals?  New thinking says it really doesn't matter, is this true.  And if a skimmer is needed how does that attach with an eclipse hood.  

 

Let me know what you think..................one more, is it possible to cycle in less than a week with minimal readings of ammonia, nitrite, nitrates if the tank has in excess of 1 for 1 LR?

[REEFKEEPA]

Relax.

Do not rush things.

Do carefull water changes and don't try to keep corals for at least a few months.

A skimmer is probably going to rob your tank of trace elements faster than you can replace them.

[NanoReefer53]

13w is not enough for any corals becuase that's just a little over 1 watt per gallon. For a 12gallon size, 4 of those would be better if you can cram them in. Like most people, I would just go for the 32w CSL retro that actually fits inside.

 

Skimmer is a big question. A skimmer will keep your water clean but will take out little organisms and nutrients so you'll have to dose daily.

 

After one week with the live rock, check your parameters and make sure everything is good. Then you can slowly add snails, crab, etc. Let it all settle in for a while then you can add fish. Remeber like ReefKeepa said, relax, do not rush things.

 

Happy Reefkeeping !

[printerdown01]

Is there any way to stick another 13W in there? If so then you are just looking at an upgrade down the road. In the mean time your coralline will take off! Def. no need for tons of light when cycling... Another thing: do they make a 50/50 type bulb for a 13W, and if not what are you using as a light source for a full spectrum?

[gabe3eb]

Hello lights has a 50/50 13watt bulb. :-) hth

gaber

[gabe3eb]

My bad, I guess hellolights.com doesn't. The smallest I can find is 28 watts. You might want to check out URI VHO lighting, they have the smallest TRUE ACTINIC bulb around, not sure how many watts, I think like 8 or so, but it is 15 inches. GL,

gaber

[Maniac]

OK, I don't understand how someone can say a 13w bulb is not enough for a 12g tank because it is only 1w per gallon.  Now, maybe this isn't enough but how can you make the watt per gallon comparison on a small nano?  This bulb is probably inches above the water which is probably very intense compared to a metal halide which is probably 12" or more above a large tank which may be up to 3 foot to the tank bottom.   Not to mention, the square footage of a larger tank that could be 24x24x24 versus a 10x10x12.    Not sure of exact tank specs but you get the idea.

 

-Tom

[fish04]

13W in a 12 gallon is too little light no matter what ratio you use. In nano's we all know that w/gal isn't that relevant, but it's a good start.

 

I would take that 13W retro back!  Get what you had planned..at least 36W. Just for comparison I run 72w of PC on my 10 gallon. IMO 36W is probably the bare minimum you would want to run in a 12. Using the old w/gal ratio that would bring it up to 3w/gal.

 

Just so you know, the reason Maniac brought up the fact w/gal doesn't work is that it is usually held as a standard for larger tanks. Although it is still a good starting reference point for nano's, there are many other factors to take into account. But...IMO nano's should at least have 3w/gal then you can talk about what the pro's and con's are for more or less light. There has to be a cut off point for where corals are going to survive, and I think 53's point works. 1w/gal is, in fact very low, so when planning a tank I think 3w/gal woulsd be a fair place to start regardless of your take is on the w/gal issue...but....that of course is only my opinion.

 

FYI-I have 13W on my 2 1/2 gallon and I don't think it's enough, I bumping up to 26W this week, a 6400K and a 10,000K....FWIW.

 

(Edited by fish04 at 9:45 pm on Feb. 24, 2002)

[Signmom99]

LFS won't take tank and/or hood back.  Chewed him a new one explaining that he steered wrong.  Trusted this guy since I have been dealing with him for the last, well let's just say many years.  So....I'm SOL and stuck with this hood.  This tank has a bow front so am limited as to my options.  So, reefers, any suggestions.  I found a 32w retro compact that will fit.  But again, it has a compact light in it.  A single with two tubes.  In the sign biz we call these u-lamps.  Is that my only option.  I'm not good with electrical stuff, but do know that I need to stay within @ 17" in width.

 

Your thoughts............................

[NanoReefer53]

They have 13watt 50/50 bulbs at www.marinedepot.com

 

13watts is just 13watts. It's not enough light no matter how bright it looks. Ex: on a 20gallon with 110watts of lighting. That 110watts will spread out to the whole tank instead, oh say....5 watts in each square inch.

[fish04]

Why don't you sell the 13W lights to someone...*ahem*, I'm looking for 13's :smile:! Then take your lumps and go get what you really want.

 

Don't feel bad, I think everyone in this hobby has bought something they weren't happy with. You just sort of have to suck it up and live and learn.....unfortunately.

 

I'll give you $15.00 for the ballast, endcaps, and lamp. Let me know!

[Toyfreek]

I have never seen the Eclips 12 gallon so take this with a grain of salt.

My logic is that a 12 gallon tank in a square or rectangle has to be at least 16 inches long, I got a 32W retrofit for $35 dollars shipped with a smartlamp 50/50 from E-bay that is 15 inches long and 3.5" wide. why couldn't you mount that in the rear and keep your 13W  for the front of the tank? build a hood if you want or gut the existing one. I have heard that the biowheel is detremental to healthy live rock (competes) anyway. you could use a whisper hang on in the back to put your heater and floss in. good to go with triple the light for like 50 bucks, as well as better dispertion. If you dont wanna go that route please sell me the 13W kit so i can ) its kinda what i wanna do for my 7gal bowfront.

Good luck,

Matt

[NanoReefer53]

i have xtra 36watt PC bulbs =)

[Signmom99]

Ok Toyfreek, I like your idea.  Some guidance will be appreciated though as I dare not ask my husband.  He is supportive as long as I can do this on my own.  (We had a very expensive go around with SW years ago, it soured him on SW).  So, I am capable of handling tools and am a great 'copy artist' however, lack in the designing department.  Are there any rules of thumb for building a custom top, especially when dealing with a bow.  Am I better off to do a top that does not sit directly on the tank and have it raised?  Can not have a top suspended from the ceiling though.  Eventually, I will convert my 29g to SW, but really like this little guy for right now.  Please help.  You all at nano-reef are great and the info is awesome.

 

So, bottom line- want to keep the 13w and add lighting to it.  Where do I start?

 

As always, thank you for your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KoAps]

Don't listen to these people telling you the light is too small for the tank.

 

The stupid watts per gallon thing will only give you an idea of how weak the light is at the bottom of the tank, who cares, If you have a nice Live Rock Stack, you simply put the coral on top then they can be anywhere from 6" to 2" from the surface and the lights, thus making the watts per gallon extremely powerful. I did this exact thing on my tank, placing the more light demanding coral higher on the rocks and the low light coral at the bottom, I have also run my tank for over a week on nothing but 8w blue light and non of the coral suffered, they just changed their cycles to react when the blue lights come on, like star polyps coming out during the start of blue light instead of white.

 

You can setup a tank with 13w, just you will have limited areas for the coral to be, and limited growth of coraline algae, but it will happend non the less.

 

(Edited by KoAps at 12:28 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)

[OscarBeast]

I wouldn't go as far as not listening to people that have been doing this for a while.

 

You are just going to have to be very careful of what and where you place things in the tank with this type of lighting.

 

The watts per gallon thing may not work but, you might want to consider that there are many people with 72 watts of PC lighting over their 10-gallon tanks that do VERY well.  13 watts is a far from being 72 watts, not to mention your tank is slightly bigger.

 

Just something to think about.

[Signmom99]

I have since put in the 32w pc smartlite mounted behind the 13w pc.  I was advised to run my lights for 3 days straight to activate the LR (which was doing absolutely nothing under the 13w lamp).  After 24hrs with the 32w and 13w lights on continually, my LR is showing beautiful color, etc.  But I will be turning it off.

 

I now own a star polyp and a tomato clown.  The star polyp opened up last night (bought yesterday) and seems to be very happy under the intense light.  I have ready they need lower light so will move down in my tank.  

 

Have not done a water change as of yet.  But do top off with either distilled water or tap water treated with de-chlor.  Everything seems to be doing well.  Am still confused on the whole water thing.  Everyone says all different things, so am thinking about trying the water from my fridge that is filtered and seeing what happens.

 

Will keep updated.

[Toyfreek]

Sorry I didnt get back to you sooner i forgot about this thread...sorry

Great job on installing the 32W retro that should be enough to keep just about anything if placed on your rock correctly.

As for the green star polyps they are light hogs in my expierience dont worry aboput giving too much light to your corals, with your setup you cant fry em. I have 400W 10K MH over my 35 gallon reef everyone is fat and happy. you now have enough light to keep most softies, LPS, and even some of the lower light SPS. The biggest step here is GO SLOW.  by the way Watts per gallon is a myth and misleading at best. It really boils down to Par and Spectrum from what I've read. If you are planning to buy an animal read about it before you buy, I have purchased animals at the LFS on impulse and I know its hard not to buy that really cool thingy. In the long run though you will save alot of money and some lives as well.

Good luck!

Matt

[Toyfreek]

Oh yeah,

Dont use the fridge water. get a source for Reverse osmosis some grocery stores have R.O. stations to fill your own jug for like  $.35 p/Gal if you use it always, you will have less problems with phosphates and in turn algae growth IME.

I use A piccalo skimmer stuck inside a whisper 200 power filter it rocks for its size i take out about 1/4 cup dark goo every other day. as for taking out trace elements your weekly 1 gallon water changes ( in your case maybe 1.75) will more than replenish them. I add calcium via Kalkwasser drip, and once in a blue moon alittle magnesium.

that clown will grow pretty big prolly just in time for your 29 gallon upgrade project:)

sorry about  the length of these posts i ramble....

GL

Matt

[Signmom99]

Is there a good website on corals and the different types.  Perhaps something that goes a little deeper than 'oh, these are pretty'?  I would like beginner info as well as a little advanced info.  Placement, feedings, light, flow, different varieties, etc.  Any ideas?  

 

Toyfreek - Your rambles are helpful and I appreciate you getting back.

[brandon429]

I like what KoAps said.

 

Caulerpa reserves do MUCH for a tank if you arent going to skim it to keep down doc's

[Toyfreek]

really beginer...http://saltaquarium.about.com/

 

advanced beginer.....http://www.reefcorner.com/reef%20keeping_101.htm

 

for your clown....http://www.biodiversity.uno.edu/ebooks/intro.html

 

inverts and fish....http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/reef/index.html

 

Good e-zine....http://reefkeeping.com/

 

 

Theres a few, By the way this is the best Nano site I have found. Chris really put together a good thing here.

HTH,

Matt