mwm6 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 If the rock you purchased was truly cured, you will not experience much of a cycle without any bioload in the tank. The minimal die-off of living organisms from transport and establishing your rock formation (unless rock was set out of water for many hours)will not produce an ammonia spike. In fact, with no bioload and cured rock, the bio capacity of the rock is limited to that which is required to support the life within the rock. So, yes, adding living organisms to the tank promotes nitrifying bacteria growth which in turn converts the ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate, etc, as the bacteria multiply to absorb the active bioload. It is only when the bioload increases, that the resulting bacteria increases. If the rock was shipped uncured to the LFS, and they just initiated the curing cycle, and sold it as "cured" rock before cured, then yes, you will experience a cycle without any additional bioload in tank, and yes, adding additional life will increase the ammonia level, which is most harmful to fish, etc. I've had 6 reefs since 1987 and I've set up 2 on uncured live rock, having to cycle, and the others with cured rock. The last being a 37 gal in which I literally brought home cured live rock and fish simultaneously from a LFS 3 hours away, tank NEVER experienced an ammonia spike over its life, and original fish never missed a breath. I'm not trying to promote adding six fish, five corals and all the fauna at once. Merely the fact that you're not assisting the population of nitrifying bacteria if the rock is cured and no living organisms exist in the display. Hope I didn't confuse you! Link to comment
SecondBreath Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Aqua, temp range has ranged from 79 to 83 degrees with the built in heater set at 78 degrees. Socal has been experiencing some fairly warm days lately (Sunday was in the high 80's) and the tank never went past 83 but the lighting does heatup the tank by a few degrees with the lights on, so I can't imagine what an MH setup without a chiller would be like. Especially during a Socal winter like this. =) Mliu, exaclty! I've looked at all the other all-in-one setups as well and the RSM is just so hard to beat. Poeple try to bash it by saying it's to expensive but I found a great deal on it. They say the skimmer doesn't work, but mine is working just great even though there's hardly been any die-off. They also say the lighting is weak but my SW experts/friends tell me it's plenty bright for a stock system. Again, I'd love to have MH IF I wanted to buy a chiller and stock SPS. Althogh I even read some posts by the Red Sea Tech in these forums that the RSM lighting has allowed them to grow some forms of SPS! Mwm6, what you say makes sense. I've barely saw my amonia go up before all levels died. Now I only have trace levels of Nitrate in my tank. The LR looks like it's got some growth on it but I think they were well cured by the time I bought them. Upon the advice of my LFS I puchased two turbo snails in the hopes that they'll add some amonia to my system and help start my cycle. I tried to be sensitive and not put a damsel through this, I just hope the snails do the trick! Link to comment
aquamac Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Thanks Second...79-83 is reasonable... I have seen a lot of posts saying that Red Sea is expensive, that it doesn't have metal halide, and the skimmer doesn't work. Of course, if you outfit most any other similar sized tank, it will cost about the same, maybe more. Add a heater, a light timer, a skimmer, etc. Metal halide is very tough to do with a small tank without temps shooting into the stratosphere. And none of the people that criticize the skimmer have seen one, let alone used it. I ordered one today. Link to comment
SecondBreath Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Congrats! I'm glad to see more people buying this setup... We'll have to start a RSM Forum soon! Link to comment
gkimble Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Great tank I am sorry I just got to bloat. I got a 30 gallon finnex tank with 150HQI 14K 2x24 watt t5's, built in 13 watt light for a refigerum, plus a protein skimmer for $540. Now my didn't come with a stand, I am going to build my own. I love the way how the RSM only has one cord and built in timer. That is very cool. Sorry I am just excited about my tank. I probably just made an ass of myself. Really nice tank man. Link to comment
SecondBreath Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Ha! I really looked into the Finnex as well. I really liked the setup and the way it looked. Did you get a glass or acrylic one? And yes, the convenences and design of the RSM are pretty cool. Even the flip up hood that has built in slots for Red Sea's test tubes and hydrometer make testing alot easier and faster. It's all about the little things! Link to comment
aquamac Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I don't look at this as a competition between tanks. All the brands bring good things...the Red Sea just seemed like to best choice for me. Other tanks might be better choices for other people's needs, and I wish everyone the best results with them. Reasons I went with the Max: First, it's bigger than any of the others. For reasons I won't get into here, I'm downsizing from a 90 gallon, but didn't want to go all the way down to 24 or 28; 34 is the biggest all in one, so that was a major point for me. Second, the location I'm planning for this tank needs to have something that doesn't show plumbing or wires and it needed to be covered. That ruled out the Cadlights and the Finnex. Finnex was also eliminated as I had an acrylic tank once and I just know I'll scratch it. Other pluses for the Red Sea: built in control panel, timer, heater, skimmer, and a single power cord. And early reports indicate the skimmer appears to work well. My guess is the lighting is going to be sufficient for almost anything. I have another open top nano with MH lighting underway, so worst case, SPS can go in that tank. Link to comment
gkimble Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I agree with that you made a good choice. My tank is glass.I would have never bought the acrylic. Also the plumming in the finnex is hidenn very well. Well yeah you see the light fixture. But I think t looks cool. Just a preference. I really lookked into the RSM I just went with a better lighting system and it had a refigerium with a light so I could grow algae. I might have jumped on a RSM for $650 with stand. I will post a pic when teh tank is up and running. Link to comment
aquamac Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I like the Finnex glass...is this the one? http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/m..._Code=Aquariums I assumed they only made acrylic, as the Finnex website only lists acrylic models. The only thing with this tank is the open top...that wasn't an option in my case. Good that it is glass...I'll never buy another acrylic tank. The coralline algae grew like crazy on the tank sides and it was very easy to scratch the acrylic when removing it... Link to comment
gkimble Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Actually I took teh last glass 30 gallon M tank. They stoped making them based on teh cost of shipping them. They were spending most of their money on packaging and shipping. Link to comment
chris r Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 mwm6 is dead on. If you have fully cured live rock&live sand, there will be no cycle and you can start your tank immediately. This is the purpose of spending the big money for fully cured rock. I started an eclipse hex5 with LR&LS four years ago and the first day had a purple pseudochromis,fire shrimp,1snail and 4 hermits. I have only had to replace the cleanup crew due to old age dieoff. You started off smart, now it's time to stock up. This is the fun part, don't deny yourself any longer. Link to comment
SecondBreath Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Chris, I'd love to believe that my tank's ready to go but some people tell me it's better to experience a cycle than not to? Is this true? I'd hate to give in to wishful thinking... I introduced two turbos yesterday and today they're speeding around the tank looking for algae that isn't there! Hopefully they spark something. I think I'll wait until this weekend and continue to test in the meantime. If things stay as they are with no detectable levels I may just have to take your advice and start adding some fish! And yes I agree with the earlier posts. All the tanks mentioned, especially the Finnex are great in their own ways and it really comes down to personal choice. I'm just happy to see other RSMs popping up in case I need help with mine! Extremely excited! Thanks everyone! Link to comment
pico1 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Quick question, how loud is the skimmer and what kind of skimmate are you getting? Also when the tank evaporates does the sump water level change or does the display tank's water level change? TIA. Link to comment
SecondBreath Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 Pico, the skimmer does produce some noise (not sure if it's louder than other skimmers?) but I'd say it's no louder than the canopy fans running when the lights are on... But to be honest I haven't really paid that much attention to the noise as I have two puppies running around the house as well as the TV on in that room. All of which can be pretty noisey! I've only had the tank running since Saturday and from what I've read it takes a few days for the skimmer to really break in. That combined with the fact that I haven't had begun a true cycle or introduced any real livestock yet leads me to beleive I shouldn't expect too much from the skimmer at the moment. However, the skimmer is producing a fair amount of fine bubbles and as of yesterday there was some brown skimmate in the riser tube and a little in the collection cup already. Not sure why people rag on this skimmer though. It's fairly large, fits perfectly behind the false wall, the collection tray is easily accessible but doesn't show via a panel door, has a built in on/off switch on the side of the tank and more inportantly IT WORKS! =) And I beleive the display tank's water level changes along with sump but I've been very careful to top off as much as I can, so I haven't seen any dramatic evap... Hope that helps! Link to comment
polkiejoe Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Pico, the skimmer does produce some noise (not sure if it's louder than other skimmers?) but I'd say it's no louder than the canopy fans running when the lights are on... But to be honest I haven't really paid that much attention to the noise as I have two puppies running around the house as well as the TV on in that room. All of which can be pretty noisey! I've only had the tank running since Saturday and from what I've read it takes a few days for the skimmer to really break in. That combined with the fact that I haven't had begun a true cycle or introduced any real livestock yet leads me to beleive I shouldn't expect too much from the skimmer at the moment. However, the skimmer is producing a fair amount of fine bubbles and as of yesterday there was some brown skimmate in the riser tube and a little in the collection cup already. Not sure why people rag on this skimmer though. It's fairly large, fits perfectly behind the false wall, the collection tray is easily accessible but doesn't show via a panel door, has a built in on/off switch on the side of the tank and more inportantly IT WORKS! =) And I beleive the display tank's water level changes along with sump but I've been very careful to top off as much as I can, so I haven't seen any dramatic evap... Hope that helps! Does it look like there would be any way to add a refugium to the tank at all? Link to comment
pico1 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Thanks for the info. You could plumb an external refugium using the chiller in/out space. Link to comment
SecondBreath Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 I agree: There's quite a bit of space behind the false wall for a chiller and if you modified the filter materials you could get even more space. Not sure I'd ever do this myself, but I don't see why you couldn't. Link to comment
aquamac Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 A fuge is the first thing I'm going to investigate when my RSM arrives. Link to comment
pico1 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 sorry for all the questions but is the false wall glass or acrylic? TIA. Link to comment
SecondBreath Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 I'd love to see someone modify this to accomadate a refuge! I believe the false wall is acrylic so I can't imagine it'd be that hard. I also just noticed that there's a popout right above the return pumps/valves in the rear left corner for an additional fan! The manual and the spec sheets don't mention it at all, but after playing with it I found that's exactly what it's for. Really cool since I'm worried about this coming summer and the inevitable rise in water temp. These are exactly the kind of features that make the RSM so awesome! Link to comment
polkiejoe Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 how much is it? www.CustomAquatic.com direct link http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic...ubcatID=aq-mini Link to comment
bourbon Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hi - saw this tank in the store the other day and the salesman and I couldn't figure out where the moon lights are? where are they ? how many are there? how do you turn them off and on ? Link to comment
SecondBreath Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 Yeah, custom aquatic rocks with the deal they have on the RSM! Bourbon, There are two Moonlight LEDs positoned between the daylight bulbs. These are brighter than you'd imagine and flood the entire tank. These can be turnedd off/on by one of the following methods. -The master on/off light switch located on the side of the tank near the other on/switches -The dedicated moonlight on/off switch located near the built in light timer at the top of the tank I'd suggest reading more at www.redseamax.com and I'd also suggest you go to another LFS next time. =) Link to comment
illuminum Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 A few questions: 1. Is the back of the setup as all similar to the NC? The back of Nano's are glass, but have a black backing which is an actual sticker which can be pulled off carefully (perfect if you want to have a fuge in the back). 2. How do you think the stand and the tank would hold up in an earthquake? I see too many stands that are not at all earthquake proof. It looks like the stand would hop right off the stand with the slightest tremor. The ends of the stand don't have "lips" on the edges to keep the tank in place do they? 3. Do you think the outlets of the return pumps would be compatible with a hydor flo? 4. How easy is it to get to the back compartments? It seems a little tricky to get to the mechanical filtration since you'd have to remove the pumps to get to them. 5. Does the hood open all the way up, or do the hinges lock them into that slightly open position? Link to comment
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