stallen Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 With this closed hood system, I've found that top-offs are hardly necessary with the lack of evaporation. The first singn of evaporation is the level in chamber 3. I do a water change about once a week. In between water changes I maybe top-off 6-8oz to maintain the level in chamber 3 that I want. When it comes time for my next water change I just make sure that chamber 3 is at my desired level at the end of the water change. Increased SG may be your concern. I don't have problems with SG shifts. I use a refractometer and I keep a consistant SG of 1.025 in my tank. I do that by making a SG of 1.024 for my water changes. A typical water change of about 15%-20% isn't enough to show a significant drop in my SG using 1.024. During the week I dose with B-ionic 2part. The B-ionic cause a slight increase in SG. So long story short I don't think 6-8oz of top off per week is worth the trouble of setting of an ATO. You may find that you have more evaporation because of things like humidity level in your house. I mentioned all the stuff about SG because that is why we want to keep topped off frequently is to keep frome having SG swings. I don't have SG swings because of little evaporation and I compensate for the B-ionic by using SG 1.024 with water changes. Bottom line is we all do what works best for ourselves. Link to comment
trob Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I'd hold off on the ATO for awhile. I top off like 6-8oz a week! Hardly even worth it. If you are doing weekly waterchanges you might not need to top-off at all. I follow and agree. I loose more water changing the filter floss than a week of evaporation. What stallen is saying is if your going to fool around with a water change more than once a month your not going to see any benefits from a ato. If you had an open hood with mhi lighting it may be a different story. Just top off your tank before doing the water change and you will be good. Link to comment
stallen Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I follow and agree. I loose more water changing the filter floss than a week of evaporation. What stallen is saying is if your going to fool around with a water change more than once a month your not going to see any benefits from a ato. If you had an open hood with mhi lighting it may be a different story. Just top off your tank before doing the water change and you will be good. Ahh, a good point that I didn't think of. Yes, when I remove my filter floss every couple days I am probably removing more water (and that's actual SW being removed) than what is evaporated. That's probably another reason why my SG doesn't get higher than 1.025... because I replace the SW that is removed with RO/DI water (and water changes of 1.024) and I dose with B-ionic which helps compensate for the removal of salt. Link to comment
GMan Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 Thanks for the input and advice. I have a peristallic pump sitting around, and I was planning a very simple implementation of drawing RO/DI water from a repository I use for my other tank and simply adjust the pump rate to match the evaporation rate. I certainly agree that if I didn't have the equipment lying around it wouldn't be worth the effort ... but since I do ... I'm going to continue with the "Pimp My Cube" effort. Nice job, I really like your attention to stay as close as possible to the stock look. I'm really interested to see how the temperature will do with your setup. Have you plugged it in to test out your work? Can you tell any noticeable difference in the amount of noise being generated by the fans? Also what did you do as far as bulb selection? I did attempt to keep external aspects as close to stock as possible. I have pulled everything in and let run for several hours. Unfortunately I took no measurements of flow/temperature prior to mods, so I have nothing to compare to. However, the hood itself gets warm, but not hot or noticably warmer than before. The fans are definitely quieter than before (my stock fans were loud), but I can still hear them starting at a distance of about 4 feet. The fans seem to push and pull more air then previously and I would say that the outputed air is warmer then before. All and all I'm am quite happy with the fan upgrade and the related noise reduction. The impact of the mod on temperature and light output are yet to be determined. I went with an extra 50/50 bulb. Link to comment
stallen Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Thanks for the input and advice. I have a peristallic pump sitting around... ... I went with an extra 50/50 bulb. I'm currently looking for a pump like the Nautilus two from innovativeaquatics.com to dose my b-ionic two part. I'm getting tired of doing it everyday, not to mention if I'm away for a few days at a time it will be nice to have a pump do the job for me. So what bulbs do you have? 1x actnic, 1x 10000k, and 1x 50/50? What is your plan for timer schedule? Link to comment
GMan Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 I may change my mind and switch the peristallic pump to do dosing ... This will be my first reef and I haven't had to deal with dosing. Get a peristallic pump on ebay ... basically the same thing you are looking at above. Should be able to get one for about $50 I have the bulbs you stated. I wired my new ballast into one of the existing switches so that one switch turns on one bulb and the fans and the other switch turns on the other two bulbs. My plan is to leave the switches permanently on and control the light timing via timers built into my DIY controller. I was originally intending a full cycle ... moon light (ML) & fuge, actinic & ML, actinic & 50/50 & ML, actinic & 50/50 & 10K & ML, actinic & 50/50 &ML, actinic & ML, ML & fuge, etc. However ... I only have room in my DIY controller for three timers thus I plan to go with the following cycle ... moon light (ML) & fuge, 50/50 & ML, actinic & 50/50 & 10K & ML, 50/50 & ML, ML & fuge, etc. I haven't determined the exactly on/off times and would welcome some input. Link to comment
flyingjeff Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I have to agree with Stallen and trob. Top-off is almost a non-issue for me also. I run my lights on a 12 and 8 schedule Actinic - 12 hours 2 x 10K - 8 hours Fuge - Currently 24 Hrs I am running only two timers, and recently had a nice relay fall into my lap, so I am thinking of wiring my fuge light to just run opposite my Actinic on one timer. Looks good so far! Link to comment
GMan Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 I am running only two timers, and recently had a nice relay fall into my lap, so I am thinking of wiring my fuge light to just run opposite my Actinic on one timer. That's a great idea and would allow me to implement my original plan of cycling my three main lights separately. What type of "relay" are you talking about, and how would it be wired? Link to comment
flyingjeff Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 It was an old surplus job from the stores room here at work. I have it at home, and can look at it again. Basically, it has to be wired to break the contact to the fuge light while the timer is "ON". Power goes off to the actinic at night, the relay goes back to the NC (Normally closed) contacts, and the fuge light comes on. Link to comment
GMan Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 Great ... I'll do a little research. If I understand correctly I could then do the following: Timer 1: ON-10K on / OFF-10K off Timer 2: ON-50/50 on / OFF-50/50 off Timer 3: ON-actinic on, fan on, fuge off / OFF-actinic off, fan off, fuge on Well this sounds perfect ... more research ... longer delay for LR ... Thanks! Link to comment
flyingjeff Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Relay I am running my fuge on 24 Hr light currently, and it is doing well. I don't think you need to delay live rock for that! Shouldn't you be cycled before you fire up the fuge anyway? Link to comment
GMan Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 Relay I am running my fuge on 24 Hr light currently, and it is doing well. I don't think you need to delay live rock for that! Shouldn't you be cycled before you fire up the fuge anyway? I agree that I don't need to delay, however I'm dealing with the "wife" factor and need to complete my DIY controller so that initial implementation looks clean. Regarding cycling prior to fuge/chaeto ... I've read varing reports on this subject. Most people seem to believe that ammonia and nitrite do not hurt chaeto and that it is OK to cycle with an operational fuge. I plan to start cycle ... order chaeto so that it arrives at tail end of the cycle and there is some nitrate for it to munch. Link to comment
SaltyVT Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I'd hold off on the ATO for awhile. I top off like 6-8oz a week! Hardly even worth it. If you are doing weekly waterchanges you might not need to top-off at all. Man those were the days. After the open top i went to like 1/4 gallon a day!! Little in the morning a little at night!!! I like that wave machine, hows it goin? Link to comment
flyingjeff Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 The WAF is nothing to take lightly! Can you post more specifics about your DIY controller? Link to comment
GMan Posted January 26, 2007 Author Share Posted January 26, 2007 I'll post more detail and pictures when it is done, but it is basically a 6x6x4 PVC box with 9 duplex outlets. 3-Normal power (for accessories) 3-Normal power connected to three seperate digital timers (for lights) 3-Alternating power (for pumps). I took the alternating timer circut out of a "Natural Wave" power strip and wired it to these outlets. Each of these outlets will also have an independent switch so they can be easily turned off for feedings. A few miscellaneous pieces of candy ... master power switch, 15A circut breaker, etc. I'm now looking into relays mentioned a few posts ago to handle lights as indicated. I also figured that I would use a DPDT relay to turn off both the actinic/fans and one of the pump outlets (the one used for my CLS) when the fuge light is turned on. This would simulate the "calm night sea" effect and still keep circulation pumps going. Link to comment
GMan Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 DIY Controller First a pic ... I had to forego the 6x6x4 PVC box mentioned above because I couldn't get everything to fit in the box. The frame is 1"x2" with 1/4" plywood facing. I labeled items in the picture so that this can be more easily explained. Outlets - O1-O8 Timers - T1-T3 Switches - S1-S4 Circut Breaker - C1 Rotary Switch - R1 I started with the Natural Wave wakemaker power strip. This device alternates power to two outlets based on an adjustable time, and alternates a third outlet at twice the set time (e.g. 1-on/2-off/3-off, 1-off/2-on/3-off, 1-on/2-off/3-on, 1-off/2-on/3-on, 1-on/2-off/3-off, etc.). I disassembled the unit and used the timing circut board, S1, C1, and R1. The timers are Intermatic SS8 in-wall timers which I obtained on eBay. S1 is the master power switch, S2 switches O1, S3 switches O2, S4 switches O3. C1 is a 15A circut breaker. R1 adjusts the timing for alternating O1, O2 and O3. T1 controls timing of O5, T2 controls timing of O6, T3 controls timing of O7. O4 is a standard constant power outlet. I added a DPDT relay (RadioShack 275-217) that provides some special power switching. When power is supplied to O5 ... power is cut to O8. When power is cut to O5 ... power is supplied to O8, and cut from O6, O7, O3. I plan to connect my equipment in the following manner ... O1 - Circulation pump 1 O2 - Circulation pump 2 O3 - Closed loop circulation pump O4 - Heater O5 - Light ballast 1 (Actinic and fans) O6 - Light ballast 2 (50/50) O7 - Light ballast 3 (10K) O8 - Fuge light and Moon Light Bottomline is the the controller will control my system as follows: - The circulation pumps will alternate 24/7. - T1 will switch the actinic, fans, and CLS on in the morning - Shortly after T2 will switch on the 50/50 - Shortly after T3 will switch on the 10K - Towards evening T3 will switch off the 10K - Shortly after T2 will switch off the 50/50 - Shortly after T1 will switch off actinic, fans, CLS and switch on fuge and moon light - The timers I'm using allow 7 daily or 49 weekly events ... thus ... I could simulate cloud cover by periodically switching 50/50 and/or 10K lights periodically throughout the day of week. - S2-S4 will allow me to turn pumps off for feeding or maintenance - R1 will allow me to adjust the rate which the pumps alternate - The system is wired such that the 50/50 and/or 10K lights can't be turned on unless the actinic and fans are on. This is to prevent a potential disaster if the relay were to fail. Here is a really lame wiring schematic ... Hey I needed something ... Tips for anyone who may follow this plan ... make the frame an 1" larger in each direction. I had dremel out inside portions of the 1"x2" frame to get everything to fit. WOW ... almost ready for water! Link to comment
stallen Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Wowsers! A little too complicated of a DIY job for me. Sure looks like it will be a useful though. So Mr. electrical DIY guy, I've got a challenge for you (like you need more challenges ha, ha). I like to keep my pump turned off for 10 - 20 minutes when I feed to give my corals and CUC a chance to finish eating at feeding time. I have a concern that I might one day forget to turn the pump back on. That would be very bad! I would like to have my pump plugged into a timer switch of some sort. I'm thinking about how some bathrooms have those heat lamps connected to a dial/timer switch. You know how they work, right? You turn the dial to run for so many minutes the bulb turns on and when the timer dial turns itself back to zero it turns itself off. Well, I want it to do the opposite. I want to turn the dial to let's say 10 minutes to turn the pump off then after the 10 minutes is over the pump turns back on. What do you think? I'm sure it could probably be easily done. I just don't have the electrical know how to do it. I don't want to hijack your thread, but I bet this is something that you and many others would probably think is a pretty good idea. Link to comment
rev138 Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I bet this is something that you and many others would probably think is a pretty good idea. I'd be one of those others Link to comment
flyingjeff Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 The turn fan timer would work great. Wired to a relay the same as Gman's fuge light. I'll do a schem in paint and post it later tonight. Unless someone can beat me to it! My Paint skills SUCK! Link to comment
GMan Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 Well I'm far from "Mr. electrical DIY guy" ... but ... the difficulty I see with this project would be that the readily available 10-20 minute timers provide power for the timed period. You need to suspend power for a timed period. The only way in which I can think to perform this action is to use a rotary timer switch, a relay, and an outlet. The use of the relay would allow you to reverse the power flow. You could plug the pump into the outlet and when the rotary timer switch is engaged ... the power would be cut to the outlet and when the timer disengages the power would be restored to the outlet. This is a really good idea ... I wish I had thought about it, as it would have been fairly easy to implement on my controller. Well there is always next time! Link to comment
alpha Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 This is sickdiculous. My tank is garbage. I'm gonna start over. Link to comment
stallen Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I don't wanna hijack GMan's thread any further so if anyone can contribute to the DIY feeding time timer please post your ideas here... http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...p;#entry1029314 Link to comment
GMan Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 Up and flowing! Picked up some Chaeto, LS and an assortment of LR (fugi, marshall, and tonga) from a generous member of the local reef club (Thanks Mary!). I would highly recommend that everyone try to find your closet reef club and get connected. The one in Minneapolis is top notch! After the dust settled ... Sorry the pics are lame ... they certainly don't do it justice. The rock came from an established tank and thus I have had no detectable cycle. 0-Ammonia, 0-Nitrite, 0-10-Nitrate after 24 hours. Current chamber configuration: Chamber 1 - Blocked bottom inlet grate, Solid divider spliting chamber, Purigen, ChemiPure. Chamber 2 - Filter floss, Drip tray, Fuge (chaeto), Rubble LR. I'm still waiting for my submersible fuge light to arrive as I decided not to mod the back of tank. Chamber 3 - Side by side MiniJet 606's alternating main returns, MJ900 CLS. So .... been so busy with DIY and pre-cured LR was a last minute thing ... I hadn't put together a stocking plan and could use some advice ... I'm assuming next step is clean up crew ... When? What? After that fish and coral ... Link to comment
stallen Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Your LR looks really nice! My CUC is 3 nassarius snails, 2 trochus snails (I think, I can take a pic if you want), 1 margarita snail, 2 blue leg hermits, 2 red leg hermits. They do one heck of a job! I made the mistake of adding the CUC after fish. I had a ton of various macro algea before my CUC. I nearly dropped my jaw when I when I woke up the next morning to find that about 25% of the algea was gone. Wiped it all out after 2 weeks and it's been algea free since. I keep my 10K's on 12 hrs so I'm sure I'm growing some algea, but they eat it up before it's visible. Was your LR out of the water at all? If it was out for more than about 5 - 10 minutes you'll have some die-off. It would have needed to be transported in buckets of SW for there to be no die-off. Either way. I'd test every day for a week and it your numbers are still at zero (especially ammonia must be ZERO) then put in the CUC. I would not run the lights at all until the CUC goes in. Link to comment
GMan Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 Thanks for the compliments and advice stallen ... I am happy with it ... especially for $3.50/lbs no shipping, free LS, free chaeto! Lots of open swim throughs and space between rocks. You can't really tell in the picture, but there is a fair amount of purple, pink, and red coraline on the rock, lots of small dusters and other unknown hitchhikers. It was out of the water for the trip home ... about 20 minutes. It was still plenty moist and I'm sure the die off was minimal ... especially after initial testing, but I agree ... better safe than sorry. Curious ... why no lights until CUC? Just to minimize algae growth? I was thinking a CUC of ... 4 - Scarlet Hermits 3 - Nassarius Snails 3 - Cerith Snails 3 - Astraea Snails I would like an Emerald Crab and/or Shrimp or two, though I'd probably wait on the shrimp ... thoughts? Link to comment
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