Need help with sump planning

[JoeD]

Long story short..... Not a Plumber.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way.....

I have a recently acquired 40ish tank that I plan to drill and plumb into a 15H sump that will serve as a low flow refugium. I purchased an overflow kit from glass-holes (super nano con diente). I am wondering about overflow and return placement, and also about return pump size. I also plan to incorporate an external media reactor into the sump.

Looking for advice.

[bitts]

First thing is your plane for flow in the. Display.

 

If its powerheads. Korilas, vortechs. Then the placement may be defrent thanif the return woud be the main point of flow.

Assuming that with the fuge being low flow then should be alright placing the overflow in a corner. With the return anywhere along the rear wall. If doing a single return. Multipule returns could be done the same way or with the overflow in the center.

 

Pump size will be based on the head prusure chart. Starts at flow rate @ 0'. Untill there is an amount of vertical water above the pump. Which the pump can not move. This would also include bends.

Each pump has there own flow chart. Working out to be this pump @ this head will give this much flow.

Question is how much flow do you want.

 

Try not to exced the drains flow rate. And all should be good.

 

 

That should give you a start.

[JoeD]

Try not to exced the drains flow rate. And all should be good.

 

 

That should give you a start.

Thank you for your reply Sir Bitts... I was hoping you would see my post.

Flow in the display will be provided by a MP20, so this is just supplemental. I am looking for low flow in the sump to increase dwell time and let the fuge do it's work.

The over flow kit I purchased uses 1" plumbing. I'm planning to use 1 " for the return unless someone tells me otherwise. I think a single return will suffice. Overflow on left return on right... whatever seems to work once I figure out the sump postion in the cabinet.

Pump size and type (in sump v. external) are my big question marks. I understand the head height concept (I think), just uncertain about plumbing a smaller pump output (1/2" maybe) into the larger 1" plumbing for the return.

Probably making this more difficult than it is, but as I said, not a plumber. Any guidance is appreciated.

 

For the fuge design, I think I've come across a drawing of yours that shows a 3 pane/compartment design as a bubble trap, with a few other compartments... main fuge area,etc.

 

Regarding the media reactor, I am thinking a separate small pump for it just pumping water out of the sump through the the media and back to the sump. This, as opposed to having the media reactor inline.

 

This make any sense?

[bitts]

For placement yes opposite ends is good

 

As to return plumbing. Use the same size as the pumps out put.

 

Chosing a pump is how ever much you would like to spend for the amount of flow needed. Eheim is good quite one is cheap. External adds less heat to the tank.

 

1" plumbing for the drain is fine. Should allow for plenty of flow. Assuming that flow through the fuge will be minimized & then supplemented by something like a korilla nano.

 

The best standard sump that I have floating on here was in a thread started by bones. Should be linked to in, I believe the sand link in my sig.

 

Reactor is yes a separate pump.

[JoeD]

As to return plumbing. Use the same size as the pumps out put.

 

Considering the Eheim 1250 or 1260. I was hoping to use the same drill for my return... Would the extra output of the 1260 compensate for plumbing it into 1" PVC. Couplings to make the transition from 5/8 to 1" shouldn't be a problem.

 

Is this a case where saving the $20 for another hole saw is a dumb idea???

 

Thanks for you help.

[bitts]

Changing size while its passes through the bulkhead won't matter. But using the larger plumbing for the entire run would have huge a affect.

 

A 1" bulkhead would need a coupling to use 3/4" or 1/2" locline

[JoeD]

Changing size while its passes through the bulkhead won't matter. But using the larger plumbing for the entire run would have huge a affect.

 

A 1" bulkhead would need a coupling to use 3/4" or 1/2" locline

Duh!!!! sometimes I just need someone to talk me through things.

 

Thanks

[bitts]

No worrys mate.

 

Plumbing would be easier if it just went over the tank wall. Would help to prevent back siphon. Allowing for the sump to be simpler to plan.

 

Tank will look better with it plumbed through. Just be aware of how much water will drain back into the sump when power is cut.

[bitts]

Any news.

[JoeD]

Any news.

Funny that you should ask... I was going to get in touch with you tonight.

Picked up my 16H yesterday. Top is going to have to come off of the stand to get it in. Hadn't planned on that. I'm getting the rest of the plumbing supplies today.

The Eheim 1250 at 4' head height drops to around 200 gph... a little lower than I want. The 1260 puts out more flow than the overflow will handle. Ball valve on the return to dial it down?

Also, thoughts about having the media reactor in line (before) the protien skimmer?

[Codeman]

Funny that you should ask... I was going to get in touch with you tonight.

Picked up my 16H yesterday. Top is going to have to come off of the stand to get it in. Hadn't planned on that. I'm getting the rest of the plumbing supplies today.

The Eheim 1250 at 4' head height drops to around 200 gph... a little lower than I want. The 1260 puts out more flow than the overflow will handle. Ball valve on the return to dial it down?

Also, thoughts about having the media reactor in line (before) the protien skimmer?

 

The 1260 will be too much even after head loss?

 

If so, you may just have to throttle it back with a ball valve.

[JoeD]

The 1260 will be too much even after head loss?

 

If so, you may just have to throttle it back with a ball valve.

Yeah, overflow is rated at 300gph max. At 4' head height the 1260 is putting out a good bot more than that. (400+ gph based on some of the charts I've seen)

[bitts]

Go for the 1250 then if its actual not producing enough flow. Look into some eductor nozzles.

 

As for the skimmer plumbing should always go straight from the drain to the skimmer with nothing between. At the skimmers in take use a large tee like 2 inch or so. With one side open & the other fed by the drain. This way the skimmer can draw from both sides, but when powered down the drain water can just pass through.

 

I would keep the reactor either as a separate system or feed by the return pump.

[Deleted User 6]

I wouldn't ball valve your return pump. The 1260 is what I'm using on my 40B with a 1" drain, fwiw.

[JoeD]

Thanks all...

 

Go for the 1250 then if its actual not producing enough flow. Look into some eductor nozzles.

 

This makes my head hurt.... maybe I'm over thinking it. At just under 200 gph at 4' head with (3) 90 degree elbows the 1250 should be adequate turnover for the fuge... the eductor nozzles at a glance seem to increase turbulence/pressure???

 

I wouldn't ball valve your return pump. The 1260 is what I'm using on my 40B with a 1" drain, fwiw.

 

I'm trying to sell myself on the 1260, but agree with you about the ball valve. I had several people local tell me the ball valve would be a good option, but in my mind, restricting the output of the pump creates back pressure that could shorten pump life???

The design on the Glass-Holes overflow kit(teeth and baffles) looks to slow down the water movement through the drain... yours is toothless if I remember?

 

If I mount the pump externally, the extra plumbing might help decrease the flow into the range I need, but further complicates the system...

[bitts]

Plumbing the pump to be external would be my recommendation.

 

 

Eductors do work off pressure & the difference there in to increase the rate of flow. Using the same principle as an airplane does to create lift. They work best with a pressure rated pump at which point they can move an extra 4-5 gallons per gallon from the return line. But even with a normal pump there will be increased flow. Maybe 1.5-2 gallons for each gallon from the return. There's more info on them in my sig.

 

The 1250 vs 1260 is mostly a power issue from my perspective (electric bill). Breaking down to how you want to archive the needed flow. The eductors could help. But another option with the 1260 would be to tee off the return line back into the fuge. Then use a gate valve to control the flow rate into the fuge. If you're willing to pay for the extra power the 1260 may be worth it for the added flexibility.

 

 

Another thing to consider is whether the return pump will be the sole source of flow or if it will be supplemented with korilla/vortech style power heads. Enabling you to reduce the tanks power needs.

 

 

By know you've probably noticed that I have a strong bias to using as little power as I can to operate the tank. But I will say that there are times that you need to meet the needs of the tank, & place these needs over the power bill.

[JoeD]

OK... settled on the 1250 for the return(flow in the display will be controlled by an MP 20), gathering my thoughts to finish this setup.... Everything in place, and ready to go but I need to determine spacing for the bubble trap baffles... 1/4" to 1/2" between baffles????

[bitts]

the more room you can give the baffles the less bubbles will be pulled though.

[bitts]

any news.

[JoeD]

Things slowed down a bit... I dislike silicone work as much as I dislike house painting.... messy and hard to do for people with little patience...

Plumbing is assembled and painted... just trying to figure out how to cram everything into the stand/cabinet

Hopefully get tank wet tomorrow...

 

Uglies...

 

Uglies covered...

[bitts]

Got to love silicone.

Build looks great though. Nice job.

[JoeD]

Got to love silicone.

Build looks great though. Nice job.

Thanks for the help on this, it's been an interesting experience... results and further thoughts will be in my build thread... here