Dream Tank

[avalanche1201]

I;ve always enjoyed looking at fish, and finally about a year and a half ago or so I took the plunge into SW. Everytime I'm on here I love looken at the tanks and keep dreaming about the one I want and I finally settled on a custom cube. I dont have the money to afford it yet but later this summer I will and be able to start construction on it.

 

Right now I have designed and modified and redesigned to fix flaws in my ideas that were pointed out through various members such as Ninjafish and Darkdevil, I would also like to thank Ninjafish and Darkdevil again for there inspiration from there amazing tanks

 

So now I am posting what I have looken for ways to improve what I have or just general suggestions....now on with the pics:

 

Line Sketch:

Iso: Top: Front: Left: Right: Back:

 

Rendering:

Iso: Top: Front: Left: Right: Back:

 

Edit: Excluded from the rendering is the Mag pump I will use, as well as check valves to prevent reverse siphon and ball valves to block off the water when I clean the check valves

[ninjafish]

I know that you will do a good job of keeping your check valves clean but I am still a little leery of trusting them. If you were taking the risk to achieve full 360 degree visibility then I could understand the dilemma... but you already have a visible overflow in the tank. Just seems like a big gamble for such a small payoff. It would look just as clean - and would be a lot safer - just to bring the return pipe up over the side of the tank beside the overflow. That way, you can sleep at night and go on vacation without constantly worrying if the check valve has been compromised.

 

You have done an excellent job on the renderings - looks very professional. Keep up the great work!

 

- Chad

[DarkDevil]

couple things still, first, I see you are using similar idea of a bubble tower in your sump. after my tank have been running for more then 7 months now, I see some problem with my bubble tower design. it does work really well taking out a lot of bubbles going into the sump but at the same time it created a LOT of salt creep around and near the bubble tower. So I would think of a way, like let's say a lid of some sort on top to cover the opening, and the lid have to span at least 5-8 inch from the corner to prevent really bad salt creeping. or simply make the sump way taller then it suppose to be but keep the water level low. the reason why mine is like that is because of the competition, so if I have to do it again, I will keep the water level right now, but the side of the sump I would make them 10-15" higher.

 

second, when salt water flows through the acrylic teeth, like the overflow or the baffles in your sump. it will push the water level way higher then it suppose to.

i.e. your water level = bottom of teeth + flow rate of your pump. so it seems a little bit too high for your overflow teeth, make sure you did the calculation right, otherwise the water level will be too close to the edge, a little movement in the tank will spill the water out. Also the third baffle at the sump, i.e. the baffle next to the return pump, make sure you make that teeth at least .5" lower then the first baffle, basically for the same reason, because it push the water level way too high. just my personal experiences after I ran my tank.

 

also, your return in the middle, just as ninjafish said, it may be better if you move it into the overflow as well. there are pros and cons for each design, totally up to you, I haven't had any problems with mine yet (knock on wood). the reason why I choose to design like that is because I want to keep the overflow as small as possible so I can get more visible/usable space for the nano competition, so I move the return out of the overflow wall to achieve that. second, at first I thought this would generate more flow coverage through out the tank since I am using a small return pump, hence no dead spot. it does work very well and as intended, but if you are using a larger pump, it should work just as fine without being in the middle, but you just have to position and point the outlet carefully to achieve that.

 

one thing I forgot to tell you before is that, if I have to do the competition again, or building a tank like you designed. I would still keep the return pump as small as possible, like 300-500gph range, but I would add a couple more holes at the bottom or side for doing close loops. I mean the bubble tower and the baffles did a great job of killing all the microbubbles, and I have absolutely no microbubbles in my main tank even when I am using a 500gph pump, but if you decide to use 900 gph, I don't know if that will be way too fast to eliminate the bubbles in the sump. that's why you can't really upgrade the return pump when you feel like not enough water movement for the same reason, you will be running into more problems if the return pump is way too big. so as I said, I would keep return pump small, but leave holes for close loop, and you can always upgrade close loop pump if you feel not enough. just keep that in mind.

 

I guess I type too much, maybe it's because I am way too bored at work. anyways, all in all nice work and keep it up, ask more questions if you have. Good luck!

[malla1ml]

I also agree with moving your return pipes behind your overflow. You could potentially run into some major problems. It looks as if you've done your homework but I think the risk to benefit ratio just isn't there. What your risking outweighs the benefit of having a center return. You could setup your overflow box to have multiple return nozzles built into it pointing in every which direction you choose and it would look just as nice and you would be able to randomize the flow. Otherwise beautiful tank and I can't wait to tag along this summer watching you spend your money . Good luck

 

Matt-

[avalanche1201]

Alright, so the main thing im seeing is the middle return....the payoff doesnt outweigh the risk...

 

Now I just need to decide if I want the return to come through the overflow, or to have it come through the back wall at 3 spots or so and have the return come through that.

 

Any ideas on what way the return would look better and be better?

[Maeda]

I would be careful making your display so much higher then your sump area, if noise is a concern.

 

Have the overflow come through the overflow and then just drill a hole in the overflow box and plumb it from the bottom of the tank -> overflow box wall -> locline

 

IF you're trying to achieve 360 viewable... why not make a 4 sided overflow in the middle of the tank with the returns plumbed as stated above?

 

you're not going to rely on your sump return for flow are you? how big is this tank?

[supahtim]

check valves are no good. they all have metal in them, and metal will rust in a sw environment (except for stainless steel, but even that isn't good).

 

Tim

[ninjafish]

Alright, so the main thing im seeing is the middle return....the payoff doesnt outweigh the risk...

 

Now I just need to decide if I want the return to come through the overflow, or to have it come through the back wall at 3 spots or so and have the return come through that.

 

Any ideas on what way the return would look better and be better?

 

I think that the safest would be to have the return pipe come up and over the back wall (put the closed loops in the wall or floor if you want). Remember, if you have the return come through the wall, the water will still drain down to the opening when the water is turned off. If you are considering having three bulkheads in the back wall then you are obviously not concerned about 360 degree visibility - this consideration is what dictated my design and is the reason why I had to go without a sump. If your tank is against the wall, then it would probably look better if you couldn't see through the back anyways. In this case, I would use black acrylic to make a false, weir-type wall so you could use a quiet "herbie" drain. Or you could cut a notch out of the back for an external overflow box and cover the back wall with acrylic so you don't have to look at the plumbing. Either option would look cleaner, and take a thinner layer of surface water which would make the overflow quieter and make your skimmer more efficient. Here is a picture of my tank with an external overflow box like what I was describing:

 

 

 

 

I think that DarkDevil made a good comment about the benefits of a closed loop. In fact even on my current tank I am using a closed loop because I want to achieve good flow (40x) without shooting a crazy amount of water through my sump. I'm sure that people will disagree with me but I think that strategic placement of returns to eliminate dead-spots is only really an issue when you don't have enough flow in the first place. I don't think you could fire 20 or 30 times the total volume into an enclosed glass box without achieving random turbulence JMO. One final note... you can never have too much flow, but too much velocity can be a problem. To slow down the speed of the water, without sacrificing flow, I oversize the return plumbing or split one return into two - that way, each is half as fast, but the total amount of water is the same. Whew, sorry for the long post... but now you know everything I know

 

- Chad

[Maeda]

you can never have too much flow, but too much velocity can be a problem. To slow down the speed of the water, without sacrificing flow, I oversize the return plumbing or split one return into two - that way, each is half as fast, but the total amount of water is the same. Whew, sorry for the long post... but now you know everything I know

 

- Chad

 

I actually ran into a problem with too little velocity.

 

I had a 1200gph closed loop with 4 return nozzles, and my water movement was pretty dismal. My sps did not like it at all so I added 2xKoralia #3's.

 

 

Upon revising the tank setup I cut the nozzles from 4 down to 2, and was able to remove the koralias.

[avalanche1201]

I would be careful making your display so much higher then your sump area, if noise is a concern.

 

Have the overflow come through the overflow and then just drill a hole in the overflow box and plumb it from the bottom of the tank -> overflow box wall -> locline

 

IF you're trying to achieve 360 viewable... why not make a 4 sided overflow in the middle of the tank with the returns plumbed as stated above?

 

you're not going to rely on your sump return for flow are you? how big is this tank?

 

Thats a great Idea, I never thought of a center overflow like that for a 360deg view. Ill have to see how it looks

 

Ninjafish Im curious, I really like that setup and might end up going w/ something more like that b/c this tank will have to travel from home to school w/ me...and I dont want it in the main room of a college dorm room, so It will be a while before it could be viewed on all 4 sides anyways.

 

But what are u making that overflow out of? Acrylic? And by the slot do you mean just putting a small slice in the side of the tank near the top so the water flows through that and into the overflow? Im just a little confused about that

 

I still love the 360deg look, the Only reason I really want a sump is for pods to grow and to have cheato, b/c that has helped my pico tank out greatly.

 

Im going to make a few more renderings...just the tank though prob not as detailed as my previous ones and see what I like.

 

The tank will be about 20gal

[avalanche1201]

you're not going to rely on your sump return for flow are you? how big is this tank?

 

I was thinking about that....but now im not to sure...might have a slower pump in the sump so it can filter longer, and set up a few closed loops for added flow

[Maeda]

+1 for closed loop.

[avalanche1201]

yea i think im gonna set up some closed loops and do something kinda like ninjafish's rendering. I just dont fully understand his plumbing yet

[ninjafish]

One of the return pipes is my sump return and the other return pipe is my closed loop return. The closed loop intake is the bulkhead you see on the back wall. I did that just so I could achieve good flow without putting too much through my sump and I was trying to keep plumbing inside the tank to a minimum.

And I agree with you - sumps are king and I am really enjoying having one again. With my nano and pico cubes, all my design decisions were influenced by the desire to have full visibibility from the top and all four sides and no equipment or plumbing in the tank. I came up with my cannister filter modifications so that I could grow pods and chaeto as well - but I still could not run a skimmer .

Running your system with a sump is an improvement over the cubes in my videos because you can use a skimmer, have more room, and your auto topoff options are a lot more affordable than what I was forced to do.

Best of luck!

 

- Chad

[avalanche1201]

whats best for a closed loop system...Powerhead or water pump? Or doesnt it really matter?

[Raskal311]

Use a "Y" check valve if you’re going to run the return this way.

[Maeda]

whats best for a closed loop system...Powerhead or water pump? Or doesnt it really matter?

 

External pump. You won't be sorry.

[avalanche1201]

any good suggestions? Think a maxijet or something like that would do the trick? Or should I go for a more powerful mag drive and have it split into 2 returns from 1 intake?

[avalanche1201]

Re did the plumbing. I added a closed loop, will prob be run off a mag 9.5. and re did the overflow, its now an external box. The sump pump I dont know what I want yet, I want something that will add some flow but nothing so powerful so the water down there gets alot of contact w/ cheato and more LR etc for better filtration

 

I will get the renderings up later 2day, or 2morro

[avalanche1201]

Here are the new renderings...I noticed during the screen shots some of the plumbing isnt 100% and I left out the renderings of the connections for the plumbing on the return pipe. I just wanted to get this online thats why I have not done it yet. I realized my errors in my previous design thanks to the responses and PM's. I also have noticed I will not have a need for a ball valve in this design to cut off the flow for when I do WC's etc. I feel this is a great improvement over my previous design. I believe there is still a chance for a reverse siphon if theres a power failure from the sump return...is this true or no? I think I may have to move it up more

 

I got rid of the middle return, added a closed loop that will be a mag 9.5 and the sump returns on the botton of the back wall for some added flow to help prevent dead spots down low.

 

And now on to the renderings....both follow the order of: iso, top, front, right, back, left

 

X-Ray:

 

Rendering:

 

 

Also the stand (if i do a DIY) will most likely be 2x4 now instead of 3x3

 

enjoy

[ninjafish]

Again, great looking renderings. And you are right the water will drain down to the return bulkheads - it isn't even a syphon, it is just gravity and water draining... kinda like if you had a bucket full of water and you put a hole in the side of it. You can move the bulkheads up higher, but if you put them too high you will reach a point where the return flow is hitting the front glass and causing the water to splash over the side. If you put them too low, than you have to have a huge sump tank to hold all the water that empties out of the display when it drains down to the bulkheads. I would have loved to do bulkheads into the back of my tank, but I couldn't overcome either of those problems - mostly because I didn't have a lot of room for sump space. That is why I had to bring my returns over the back wall. My pipes shoot down at 45 degrees so the water doesn't lap over the side and they aren't in very deep so not too much water gets syphoned out when I shut the pumps off. I have a line marked on the side of my sump which is the maximum water level when running... so that I know there is still enough room in the sump to catch the water when it isn't running.

 

Looking great - I love cube shaped tanks!

 

_ Chad

[avalanche1201]

So 3rd times the try (i hope). Im pretty sure I've got it all rigged up so the tank wont drain onto the floor if theres a power outage.

 

Ill get the renderings up later 2night or 2morro, I dont have photoshop on the laptop and using MS Paint is really slow and annoying.

 

Sooooo....renderings coming soon, let the drama build

[aparker]

Again, great looking renderings. And you are right the water will drain down to the return bulkheads - it isn't even a syphon, it is just gravity and water draining... kinda like if you had a bucket full of water and you put a hole in the side of it. You can move the bulkheads up higher, but if you put them too high you will reach a point where the return flow is hitting the front glass and causing the water to splash over the side.

 

What a great, thorough design process. This will be one heck of a tank. For the power failure sump drainback issue, you can deal with it without having to raise the return bulkheads. Simply make the return plumbing come up to the level of the water in the tank, then back down to your desired bulkhead height. Now make a very small hole in the top of the return tubing, and glue in a piece of rigid airline tubing, or use a reducing T with a very small side arm, and run a small piece of flexible airline from this into your tank or better yet your HOB overflow box (making sure the open end is not under water). When the return pump is running a very small amount of the return water will flow out this way instead of through the bulkheads. When the return pump quits, air will backflow through this line and break the siphon. If that's not clear let me know and I will make a drawing (but not nearly so nice a drawing as yours).

 

Good luck with it

 

Alex

[avalanche1201]

hmm, never thought about alex, although it would work. O well, not having the bulkhead there though is not only a fool proof way but it also saves me some money on the drilling cost.

[avalanche1201]

I dont have time to load up all the views, So I got what I feel are the two most important. The Iso view and the back view.

 

Color Code:

The red plumbing is for my closed loop system. Intake will be towards the bottom to have a good circulating flow through out the tank. I will be run by a mag 7 or mag 9.5

The white plumbing is for the return from the sump, I am unsure what Kind of pump I will be using for this right now. I want something powerful enough to be able to give me some decent flow return (~200gph) after the head pressure, but not so powerful as it sucks all the water through the sump rather quickly. I might be looken at a smaller mag drive pump for this as well, as the stand will not be as tall as it is being shown.

The off white is plumbing leads down into the sump. It will be gravity fed using a durso styled drain.

 

Furthermore the PVC pipe will be 3/4" Diameter.

 

Line:

 

Rendering:

 

enjoy