adinsxq Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 For those of you who stalk me, I'm sure you're familiar with my long-time desire to culture Halocaridinia rubra (Hawaiian Red Shrimp, "Opae ula"). Having finally moved into a larger place (where I could set up additional tanks), I recently placed an order with Ocean Rider, Inc. (seahorse.COM). 1 order - Hawaiian Red Shrimp (100 pieces according to the website) $100 1 order - Hawaiian Ogo Red "Gracilaria spp Red" $20 The internet transaction went fairly well. My CC was processed quickly and I received adequate notice and confirmation via e-mail. The package arrived on time and was well packed. Each order was double bagged and encased in a 2 piece styrofoam. The contents of each order was, however, unsatisfactory. The ogo was brown with elongated branching, not nearly as similar to the "red ogo" listed on the site as to the "brown ogo." I could easily have purchased what I received from the local LFS for a much lower price for the same quantity. The order of shrimp was what really disappointed me. I called them. The woman I spoke to was very nice. I even felt GUILTY after speaking to her for raising the complaint about number of shrimp. Afterall, she assured me that the product description clearly states that the shrimp are sold by mass and that they are an endangered species. I checked the website again. The description very clearly stated, "100 pieces per order." I wrote to them. (slightly modified version) April 5, 2007 VIA U.S. MAIL Seahorse.com | Ocean Rider, Inc. 734460 Queen Kaahumauna, Suite 118 Kailua Kona, Hawaii 96740 Re: Order Number 1--- Dear Sir or Madam; On April 2, 2007, I placed an order on Seahorse.com for one portion of Gracilaria spp. Red and one order of 100 Halocaridinia rubra. Thank you for processing my order very quickly; I received the package earlier today. Unfortunately, I do however have a complaint. I’ve attached a printout of item listing for the “Red Volcanic Shrimp” of which I used in my order. As you’ll see on page 2, it clearly states “100 pieces per order.” My subsequent order was based on this information. Upon receiving the package, I immediately opened it in the presence of the FedEx delivery person who was curious to see what was inside. He and others at my office will attest to no more than 80 shrimp at most, in the bag. I voiced my concerns to a very friendly woman at (808) 329 6840 who informed me of two things: 1. The shrimp are packaged by “bio-mass,” and not count. This should be clearly noted on the website. 2. The shrimp are very rare and may no longer be offered in the near future. As I’ve already said, I based my purchase on the information provided by your website. I do not see any mention of the shrimp being sold by mass rather than individual count. Also, I understand the situation of Halocaridina rubra as regards to rarity, wild-population, and culturing. I’ve done a fair amount of research on internet message boards (seahorse.org, petshrimp.com) and scientific research (Santos Labs). Ocean Rider Inc., I applaud your commitment to research, captive breeding, and public education, but please, if you continue to have this item listed on your website, modify the description. Sincerely, B--------- ------- 9400 ---- ----, CA ---- Enc. Well, I'm fairly certain they've received the letter. The price for the shrimp has changed to $150 (originally $100) and the item description now reads, "Quantity is measured by volumetrically so expect to receive between 75 and 100 pieces depending on biomass of each individual shrimp" in place of the original "100 pieces per order." I'm not posting this to say "DON'T ORDER FROM OCEANRIDER." From the research I did before making the order, they've generally got a good reputation. I've even read stories where they've replaced livestock for only the cost of shipping. Maybe I approached this wrong? Maybe I'm somehow in error here? I don't know... I just thought I'd share my personal experience with this company. I know that was a long post, sorry. Photo of shrimp still in bag attached below. (take into account those occluded by the rounded ends of the bag) Link to comment
Fishfreak218 Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 I dont like oceanrider.. I hear to many complaints. www.seahorsesource.com all the way! Link to comment
mvite Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 sigh. Congrats on bringing forth some change so that it doesn't happen to someone else. And--I stalk you and I've never picked up anything about the shrimps. I guess having someone go through your trash isn't enough. And you're right---your place is much bigger now. Very nicely written as well. Link to comment
Scott Riemer Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Adin, I know "people". Link to comment
Fishfreak218 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Congrats on bringing forth some change so that it doesn't happen to someone else. And--I stalk you and I've never picked up anything about the shrimps. I guess having someone go through your trash isn't enough. And you're right---your place is much bigger now. Very nicely written as well. lol, i remember him awhile ago talking about a group buy of those shrimps... Link to comment
adinsxq Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 Adin, I know "people". The attorney I work with was itching to make the call for me, but I did it myself. I was hoping they'd respond with at least some sort of remedy, but unfortunately the didn't. I mean seriously... in the end I paid about $1.25 per shrimp when I could have easily gone elsewhere (inlandaquatics) and paid $0.75. I guess I've learned a lesson. Buying direct from the source may not always be the best option. I haven't posted this on any other reef or seahorse forum. I don't have the time to keep up with any resulting thread. Moreover, I'm pretty sure it would depress me even more each time, having to re-live it. Link to comment
Kool-cat Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Going through peoples trash. Link to comment
supernip Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 its ok. maybe tomorrow will be a better day for you Link to comment
adinsxq Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 lol, i remember him awhile ago talking about a group buy of those shrimps... That was back when they were priced $50/100shrimp http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...c=84640&hl= its ok. maybe tomorrow will be a better day for you MAYBE! Link to comment
bluebastion Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Adin, will these shrimp be simple to breed? Are they harder to breed than mysis? What is your plan in breeding these shrimp? I'm curious because I'd like a live source of food for my wife's seahorses. Link to comment
adinsxq Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 ***NEWS ALERT*** Apr 11, 2007 7:13 PM subject Order Update #1--- mailed-by seahorse3.tempdomainname.com Seahorse.com ------------------------------------------------------ Order Number: 1--- Detailed Invoice: https://seahorse.com/shop/index.php?main_pa...p;order_id=1--- Date Ordered: Monday 02 April, 2007 The comments for your order are: Aloha B-------, Thank you for your letter! We appreciate your thoughts and we wanted to let you know that we have changed the website to reflect that our shrimp orders are done volumetrically and is not necessarily a count! We hope to keep you as one of our customers and hope to see another order from you in the future! Mahalo, Lyndsey Your order has been updated to the following status: New status: Update Please reply to this email if you have any questions. sigh. Adin, will these shrimp be simple to breed? Are they harder to breed than mysis? What is your plan in breeding these shrimp? I'm curious because I'd like a live source of food for my wife's seahorses. Both H. rubra and M. bahia are difficult to culture in the average hobbiest situation for different reasons. H. rubra, though very easy to care for, have a much slower reproductive rate (most sources say only a few times a year). M. bahia on the otherhand are cannibalistic, requiring segregation of the culture by developmental stage, but reproduce more frequently. Link to comment
mvite Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 That's wild--weird timing! Does that mean you gets more shrimps? Link to comment
adinsxq Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 Does that mean you gets more shrimps? I didn't get that impression from the e-mail. It seems Lynsey just wanted to let me know that they've updated their site to reflect what it should have said before I was mislead by the false description. Link to comment
Gerber77 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Are you trying to breed these shrimp as a food source or what is your purpose? Link to comment
r20crazy Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 if all else fails, tell her/them where to stick their tiki torch. and that you have posted this situation on a well known forum to alert possible future customers. I didn't get that impression from the e-mail. It seems Lynsey just wanted to let me know that they've updated their site to reflect what it should have said before I was mislead by the false description. Link to comment
mvite Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I hate that. I frequently find myself in that spot. Like you did a public service--but WIIFM??? Since you know you aren't getting anything you can poop all over their name now. Just keep it as factual poopin like you have---and I guess that's all you get. I hate things sometimes. That reminds me of this really frustrating situation I am having with my "Pair of True Percula Clowns" vendor..... Oh--and that shirt you wore today really brings out your eyes. Although I can't really tell too well---it's a phone cam pic. Link to comment
adinsxq Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 and that you have posted this situation on a well known forum to alert possible future customers. They are aware of my involvement with this site. That reminds me of this really frustrating situation I am having with my "Pair of True Percula Clowns" vendor..... Better be careful... "Percula Clown Pair" may arrive as one single fish marked as "bio-mass equivalent" Link to comment
r20crazy Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 They are aware of my involvement with this site.Better be careful... "Percula Clown Pair" may arrive as one single fish marked as "bio-mass equivalent" Link to comment
mvite Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 They are aware of my involvement with this site.Better be careful... "Percula Clown Pair" may arrive as one single fish marked as "bio-mass equivalent" eew Could you imagine if other stuff in our hobby was sold like that? DOWN WITH BIO-MASS EQUIVALENTS <pitchfork and torch> Link to comment
adinsxq Posted April 21, 2007 Author Share Posted April 21, 2007 the shrimp are all alive they're all BIGGER. most are .5" (adult) haven't seen any berried females. it's so unfortunate that these little guys are so expensive that very few hobbyists will even consider keeping them Link to comment
juin21 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 The whole biomass equivalent is bs. What they are saying is, we will scoop out 3 cups of water and if your lucky there will be some shrimp in them. Link to comment
er1c_the_reefer Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 that's a good idea. i'm gonna start selling zoas by biomass. Link to comment
adinsxq Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 SHRIMP HAUS (they're hiding... they don't like the bright light) Link to comment
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