[Custom] seabass

[sandlot13]

keep fighting hard! i really want to see you figure this one out!

[seabass]

keep fighting hard! i really want to see you figure this one out!

Thanks sandlot13, I’ve been tempted to throw in the towel a couple of times, but I’m dedicated to making this work (at least as long as the Star grass is still alive).

 

The tank was suffering from Blue Green Algae (BGA or Cyanobacteria). Even after a dose of Chemi-Clean, the tank could not shake this problem. So I will be changing my feeding practices; I was thinking that a little overfeeding was OK, as I wanted to sustain nutrient levels anyway.

 

Before cleanup:

 

Now I feel that I should be maintaining stricter water quality practices, and rely solely on dosing KNO3 and KH2PO4 to maintain adequate nutrient levels. On a side note, I’ve also started dosing Seachem Reef Plus (to provide vitamins and amino acids for the seagrass).

 

I’ve also shortened the light cycle by, a very minimal, 30 minutes; and in an attempt to maintain good water quality (and high O2 levels), I’m reintroducing my Taam Rio Nano Skimmer. Increasing the oxygen level and lowering the amount of organics in the water should help to keep the Cyano at bay.

 

In order to make room for the skimmer, I removed the HOB filter which the CO2 system was attached to (as the flow was less on that filter and I wasn’t all that happy with the minimal CO2 output); however, I’ll continue to dose CO2 via carbonated water. I’ve also rinsed and moved the Aqua Chargers (bio-media) to the skimmer, in an attempt to help control the micro bubbles.

No luck though, I might try moving them into the other chamber, and adding some carbon in a mesh media bag to this last chamber.

 

After a 50% water change and adding a carbon filter cartridge to the HOB filter, I dosed more nutrients to raise the levels back to my new targets. Nutrients after water change (before dosing):

• Nitrate: 5 (new target level: 10 or less)

• Phosphate: 0.1 (new target level: 0.5 or less)

 

As you can see below, there is some new growth; but the leaves are still very young and small. I’m afraid that they are not very resilient in this state, so I’m watching them (and the nutrient levels) very closely.

 

After cleanup:

[Seanano]

great tank, this maybe a little out of line as i knw very little about these types of tanks. however, i havent had aproblem growing caulerpa wish i could slow it down... but anyways have you thought about reusing the skimmate from the Remora, maybe adding a teaspoon or two at a time to see if any of the organics can feed the grass? just a thought on possibly adding safe nutrients(in small numbers) as opposed to searching out stuff from stores. Just a thought....

[seabass]

Thanks Seanano, I really appreciate all the helpful suggestions that everyone has been giving me. Throughout this contest, I’ve been learning a lot from trial and error, all the helpful posters, and information found online (not in any particular order).

 

great tank, this maybe a little out of line as i knw very little about these types of tanks. however, i havent had aproblem growing caulerpa wish i could slow it down.

I was also thinking that seagrass was going to be more similar to a macro tank; however, this Star grass seems to be more demanding. Plus, for the time being anyway, growth rates don’t seem to be even close to that of macroalgae.

 

... but anyways have you thought about reusing the skimmate from the Remora, maybe adding a teaspoon or two at a time to see if any of the organics can feed the grass? just a thought on possibly adding safe nutrients(in small numbers) as opposed to searching out stuff from stores. Just a thought.

That’s a good thought; I was thinking along the same lines (that bio-load and excess feeding might also help). However, I’m recently finding that the seagrass needs the nutrients (not the organics), and the excess organics seem to have been causing the tank problems. So now I’m thinking that the use of a skimmer, to remove excess organics, might be the way to go. I’m going to try adding the nutrients without the organics and see how that works out for awhile.

 

Picking seagrass from the intakes seem to be a regular event lately:

The micro bubbles are a bit unsightly; I’ll see what I can do next week to resolve this problem.

 

The skimmer is skimming and there are no signs of BGA today:

 

February 10th, 2007:

[travisurfer]

ouch, the seagrass really has declined. hopefully it will make it since its soo cool though. best of luck.

[clifford513]

Nice setup. Hope you get everything figured out

[seabass]

ouch, the seagrass really has declined. hopefully it will make it since its soo cool though. best of luck.

Thanks; the seagrass is much smaller than when I got it, but I feel that it’s finally starting to look healthier. I’m noticing that the roots are growing too. I was going to pull out a ‘dead’ rhizome and noticed what looked like new root growth (so I put it back). I’m not sure if it’s possible for a rhizome without leaves to survive, but that would be neat.

 

 

Nice setup. Hope you get everything figured out

Thanks clifford513, I’ve been keeping reefs for years, but I sure feel like a newbie when it comes to seagrass. Most of the practices that I’ve grown used to, result in a poor environment for it. However, I’m hoping that this project will eventually help others keep these interesting marine plants (even integrating them into their reef setups).

[seabass]

Asterina Starfish:

 

Seagrass:

 

 

 

Nuisance microalgae on plants:

 

 

Corals:

 

Fan worm and shrimp:

 

10 Gallon Star Grass Lagoon

February 28th, 2007

 

I think the decline of the seagrass has finally stopped. New growth is evident, although the new leaves are still quite small. Unfortunately, microalgae is partially covering some of the plants, so I’ve cut back the light cycle another hour in an attempt to control it.

 

I’m still dosing nutrients to avoid total nitrate and phosphate depletion. However, nutrient uptake seems to be relatively unpredictable. I’m not sure what to attribute the daily differences. I have also started dosing vitamins and amino acids in the form of Seachem Reef Plus.

 

October 31st:

 

November 30th:

 

December 31st:

 

January 31st:

 

February 28th:

[Uploadead]

Is the seagrass virtually a gonner ?

[seabass]

Is the seagrass virtually a gonner ?

Yes, it has substantially declined, but it is still holding on. I’d even go so far as to say that it has begun recovery. I believe (as others have also speculated) that nutrient depletion was the culprit.

 

I suspect that it is much harder to revitalize seagrass in this state, versus maintaining already healthy specimens. However, I feel that I have recently started providing the nutrients that it requires.

 

Seagrass is a true plant with roots; and I believe that it normally obtains the bulk of its nutrients from the substrate. However, in this instance, the substrate started off virtually nutrient free. In addition, the water was also relatively free of nutrients (which, I believe, is why the plants declined).

 

While I was practicing methods which would normally increase nutrient levels, nutrient uptake surpassed its production. Without testing, I was unaware of this deficiency until after the seagrass had already substantially declined.

 

Now I am supplying the water with nutrients in reef safe levels; basically utilizing hydroponics to provide its nutrients (although the relatively low levels still seem to be a limited factor). In addition to nutrients in the water, the substrate has slowly been maturing over the last few months.

 

I anticipate that sustaining nutrient levels will allow the seagrass to recover and eventually thrive. The question now is how long might this take?

[Uploadead]

The best thing to do (may sound stupid, but really works), is put a pellet of rabbit or guinea poop near the roots. It is free aswell.

[seabass]

The best thing to do (may sound stupid, but really works), is put a pellet of rabbit or guinea poop near the roots. It is free aswell.

Thanks, you’re probably right. However, at this point, I think that I’m more interested in seeing if I can maintain them via hydroponics, versus achieving the maximum growth. To me, this project has been more of an experiment and learning opportunity than a contest entry.

 

The skimmer seems to be working much better now. This seems to have taken care of the Cyanobacteria issue that I once had. I also feel that it helps to maintain more balanced CO2 and O2 levels (ultimately keeping pH steadier).

 

I kind of wish that I had a bit more biomass, to better observe the effects of photosynthesis on pH (as well as the increased nutrient uptake). It’s hard to believe that there are just a few more weeks left in this contest; it sure has been interesting (for me anyway).

[SunsetApisto]

This thread has been a very interesting read.

 

I'm sure you know this but in your pseudo-failure with the seagrass you've really taught the forum a lot about keeping it (what does and doesn't work) and that in itself is a substantial victory.

 

It's amazing how hair algae grows so easily but some of these macros never work out for us when we try and get them to stick around.

[seabass]

This thread has been a very interesting read.

 

I'm sure you know this but in your pseudo-failure with the seagrass you've really taught the forum a lot about keeping it (what does and doesn't work) and that in itself is a substantial victory.

 

It's amazing how hair algae grows so easily but some of these macros never work out for us when we try and get them to stick around.

Thanks SunsetApisto. Although hair algae hasn’t been a problem in this tank, you’ve hit on what I've come to believe is the main problem that I’m currently facing. It is difficult to supply the water with enough nutrients for the seagrass to thrive without triggering micro-algae growth (which covers the leaves and impairs growth of the seagrass).

 

Since macroalgae doesn’t have roots, it obtains its nutrients from the water and will often out compete micro-algae. However, since seagrass is a plant with roots, I believe that its natural environment is probably a bit different (more pristine water with more nutrient rich substrate).

 

Although supplying the water column with reef safe nutrient levels seems to help, I feel that Uploadead’s suggestion about substrate fertilization is on target. I think that tinyreef and WarEagleNR88 had also suggested that substrate fertilization or a mature substrate might help.

 

Besides the nutrient levels in the substrate, the makeup of the substrate that I’m using might also be questionable. It does not feel (or move) like a typical aragonite sand bed. This could also be affecting its ability to get the nutrients that it needs.

 

Therefore, now I’m thinking about replacing the sand bed by moving the sand bed from my 40 gallon tank to this lagoon. It sounds weird, but there is a lot less total sand in my 40 gallon breeder than what is currently in this lagoon. However, the root structures of the seagrass are currently fairly short (so it might be alright).

 

 

Although I don’t have the time or space, I feel that it would be interesting to setup various ten gallon tanks with different specifications:

• with natural nutrient rich lagoon mud, nutrient rich aragonite from a mature reef tank, new aragonite enriched with refugium based products, and non-enriched new aragonite substrate

• dosing to maintain moderate and low levels of nitrate in the water

• with and without dosing low levels of phosphate

• with and without supplementation of iron, magnesium, potassium…

• with and without supplementation of vitamins and amino acids…

• with and without CO2 supplementation

• with and without a skimmer

• with and without sand sifting critters

• providing high, moderate, and low flow

• providing high and moderate light intensity

• providing long and moderate light cycles

• and so forth

 

During this contest I’ve tried some of these combinations, but obviously there are too many to try in the time constraints of this contest. Plus without proper control tanks, it is often hard to tell when something is working better or not.

 

The first nano contests helped demonstrate the success of nano tanks; however, crashed nanos are now relatively unusual. So something like keeping seagrass in a nano might make for an interesting future competition, as it would provide the hobby with much needed information about an increasingly popular aspect of reefing. Just a thought.

[Alastair]

Seabass,

 

I've been following this thread for a while, and I'm interested in your results and observations. Topping and tailing the thread to review, you're using the star grass Halophila engelmannii. I'm wondering if it's over-lit (even at 4W/gallon)?

 

If you look at the information here it would seem that this species grows in relatively deep water compared to other seagrasses and even under a canopy of other species in some locations. It might be that this species just can't out-compete the algae under aquarium lighting conditions. You could try partially shading 1/3 - 1/2 of the lawn and see what happens over 8 weeks or so. I would also be tempted if I was trying this to establish the seagrass first, in low-light, without any filtration media or liverock. There is a comment in the link I gave that some grazers might selectively graze the micro-algae from the leaves of the star grass.. . too much to hope for that we will be able to find a nano-compatible member of this tribe.

 

Good luck, and keep up the updates.. .

[seabass]

Thanks Alastair, that’s an excellent link. Lower light levels might also help with the micro-algae. I think that I will finish the rest of the contest with the original 50/50 bulb on a 12 hour light cycle.

 

Come to think of it, I had noticed that the best growth had been in the back corner (with the lowest light); however, I didn’t connect it to lighting. I figured that it might be related to flow or something else, so I moved it to the center and increased the lighting.

 

In addition, I noticed some Cerith Snails grazing on the seagrass; however, I didn’t see any real damage to the leaves. They would occasionally uproot the colonies, so I moved the larger ones to my 40 gallon tank. It seems that I have been taking one step forward and two steps back.

 

This tank is very interesting, but it does take a bit of my time. There are lots of variables that need to be favorable. It seems to be much less forgiving than most coral or macroalgae; however, I feel that we are getting closer to a formula that works.

[seabass]

Tonight I removed the sand bed from the lagoon. I replaced it with about 10 lbs of sand from my 40 gallon tank and 10 lbs of Nature’s Ocean Bio-Activ Live Aragonite Reef Sand. I also added a piece of LR from my 40 gallon to help balance the aquascape.

 

Everything went well, but I thought it was strange that the micro-algae on the lagoon's original LR turned from green to brown.

[seabass]

OK, I finally figured out the white balance on my camera. Here are the struggling seagrass colonies:

 

I’m giving Alastair’s suggestion a try, and I’m partially shading the seagrass with some cardboard that I put on the glass top:

 

Close up of the seagrass:

 

Pic of the lagoon in my 40-gallon reef stand (with day lights on):

[ezcompany]

can you tell me where you got the barlett? nice tank

[seabass]

can you tell me where you got the barlett? nice tank

Thanks ezcompany! I love the pair of Bartlett’s Anthias that I got from LiveAquaria.com. LiveAquaria is great; plus they offer a 14-day Arrive Alive, Stay Alive Guarantee. However, I wish that they would separate the male and female Bartlett’s into separate item numbers like they do with some of their other Anthias.

 

Because various people read these threads, I always feel that I need a disclaimer when discussing the Anthias in my 40 (closer to 45) gallon tank. The 40 breeder (648sq inch surface area) is as small as I would go with Bartlett’s and I probably wouldn’t try any other Anthias in such a small tank with other fish.

[adinsxq]

oh wow. i haven't been reading very many tank threads lately

 

both of yours are excellent! good work!

[seabass]

Thanks adinsxq, I appreciate the compliment. My little lagoon might be 4 times as small as my 40 gallon reef tank, but it has required at least 4 times as much of my time. I just wish it was further along at this stage in the contest.

 

I’m now using the original 40W hood with the stock 50/50 bulb. I also removed the skimmer to clean up the look. This makes the tank 100% stock (not like it really matters).

 

Lastly, I am thinking that I should finally put in the heater. All contest, I’ve run the tank without one and the temperature has always stayed between 72° and 74°F; however, I noticed that the temperature was down to 70°F today.

[seabass]

 

 

 

 

10 Gallon Star Grass Lagoon

March 31, 2007

 

I haven’t had much time to spend on this tank over the last two weeks, and the nutrient levels have been suffering. In addition, transplanting the seagrass into the new sand bed (a couple of weeks ago) wasn’t very good for it. While it hasn’t completely died off, it is barely hanging on.

 

The Clown Gobies are destined for my 40 gallon tank. While one of them begs for food, while the other just nibbles at it a bit; therefore, I think that I will leave them in the 10 gallon tank until the other catches up.

 

The corals and other livestock are still doing quite well. They seem to be appreciating the lower nutrient levels. There is a certain balance between providing nutrients for the plants in the water column and providing a healthy environment for the other reef inhabitants.

 

October 31st:

 

November 30th:

 

December 31st:

 

January 31st:

 

February 28th:

 

March 31st:

[seabass]

10 Gallon Star Grass Lagoon

Final Summary, April 2007 (Introduction - part 1 of 5)

 

Thanks for all the help and encouragement that I’ve received throughout this contest. I was totally new to seagrass, so this project was definitely a learning experience for me. Although it’s not very flashy, I’ve enjoyed dealing with the challenges that it has presented me. I hope that it has been as interesting to those who have been following along.

 

I had a few years of experience with marine setups to draw on; but I found that traditional reef keeping methods alone (in a non-mature aquarium) was not sufficient to provide the seagrass with what it required. However, during the past six months, I feel that I’ve learned a lot about its requirements.

 

While my entry focused primarily on the seagrass, the other aspects of this project have proved to be more successful. During the last six months, this tank has been the home of two fancy fan worms, four fish, four shrimp, as well as a number of starfish, crabs, snails, and coral (which have done quite well).

 

October 2006:

 

November 2006:

 

December 2006:

 

January 2007:

 

February 2007:

 

March 2007:

[seabass]

10 Gallon Star Grass Lagoon

Final Summary, April 2007 (Equipment - part 2 of 5)

 

Equipment:

I used a standard AGA 10 gallon tank and stayed pretty close to the stock requirements for this project. However, throughout this project I changed a number of different pieces of equipment. Ultimately, I even ended up meeting the stock requirements.

 

I started with a 40W Current compact fluorescent fixture (with SunPaq Dual Daylight 6700°K/10000°K 40W bulb). Later, I switched this out with two 32W CustomSeaLife Super Nova Retrofit kits (with a 50/50 SmartLite and a 10K bulb).

However, since light didn’t seem to be a limiting factor, I ended up switching back to the 40W Current fixture with the original 50/50 bulb (in retrospect, I’d still recommend using daylight bulbs).

 

I used a number of HOB filters during the contest. I tried to incorporate bio-media with the Bio-Wheels. However, I must have gotten the Penguin Bio-Wheel 150 HOB filters from a bad batch, as I had three of the motors fail during the contest. Therefore, I ended up using a couple of different Aqua-Tech filters as replacements. The constant, additional nitrate from a Bio-Wheel might have proved to be beneficial.

 

I occasionally used a Maxi-Jet 600 powerhead to provide a redundant source of flow. This powerhead does a good job, but it takes up a bit of room in such a small tank. Since the HOB filter provided good flow, I ended up removing the powerhead.

 

I also played around with a new nano skimmer. The inexpensive Taam Rio Nano Skimmer is alright for the money; however, I did fight a problem with excessive micro bubbles. My thought was that a skimmer would help with gas exchange (equalizing O2 and CO2, thus helping to maintain pH). In addition, the skimmer helps eliminate dissolved organics (helping to maintain water quality without stripping nutrients from the water). I ended up removing it due to the micro bubbles, but I still feel that a skimmer is an excellent addition to a seagrass lagoon.

 

I also experimented a little with a CO2 reactor. I purchased the CO2/ Red Sea Turbo CO2 Bio-System:

I used an Aqua-Tech HOB filter to diffuse the CO2. Unfortunately, I was disappointed with the CO2 production and gave up on it. I believe that between check valves and how deep I put the outlet, the pressure might have reduced the output. Possibly reducing the depth might have helped. Although CO2 probably wasn’t a limiting factor, I continued to dose CO2 by adding carbonated water (Canada Dry Sparkling Water).

 

I’m usually a little lax about testing; however, with a nutrient poor substrate, it is critical to maintain nutrients in the water column (taking care not to raise levels too high). Therefore I discovered that my test kits were vital to keeping seagrass. Due to frequent testing, I decided to organize the kits to make things easier:

 

I originally had plans to use a heater, but ended up not using one. The temperature tended to stay between 72°F and 74°F. The fish, coral, and other livestock didn’t seem to mind the relatively cool temperature; however, I’m wondering if the seagrass would have done better around 78°F.

 

10 Gallon Star Grass Lagoon

Final Summary, April 2007 (Seagrass - part 3 of 5)

 

Seagrass substrate:

Nutrient rich substrate might be the most important aspect to successfully keeping seagrass. Since they have roots, they are designed utilize the nutrients within the substrate. However, when not present in the sand bed, the seagrass must get their required nutrients from the water column.

 

In addition, transplanting seagrass can be stressful to the plants; therefore it is important to leave as much of the original substrate on the root structure. I had noticed that the roots were really starting to take hold when I had transplanted them the second time (putting additional stress on the struggling plants).

 

For my project I originally used Nature's Ocean Bio-Activ Live Aragonite Reef Sand, Refugium Mineral Mud, and Seachem Gray Coast Calcite:

 

Towards the end, I changed replaced the original substrate with sand from my 40 gallon tank and some new Nature’s Ocean Bio-Activ Live Aragonite:

I now feel that the composition isn’t as important as the nutrient content of the substrate.

 

It would be ideal to use a deep wild mud substrate from a tropical seagrass bed zone, topped with a layer of aragonite to help buffer pH. However, a deep mature aragonite sand bed might also provide enough nutrients for the plants.

 

Live rock:

Live rock is commonly the primary biological filter in many marine aquariums; however, unlike other environments, nitrate reduction isn’t a primary concern when keeping seagrass. I might go so far as to say that steady nitrate production could prove to be quite beneficial. Therefore, the use of bio-media (like Bio-Wheels and bio-balls) is not necessarily something that should be avoided. During most of the contest, I had around 3lbs of LR in my system.

 

Dosing:

I’m normally not a proponent of dosing, as water changes are usually enough to provide the necessary elements (I used Catalina’s Real Ocean water for this project). However, I realized that it would be necessary to supplement nutrients that were lacking in my setup.

 

During this contest I experimented with dosing a number of elements including:

• ESV B-Ionic Calcium Buffer and B-Ionic Magnesium (for additional calcium and magnesium, plus alkalinity and pH control)

• Seachem Reef Plus (for vitamins and amino acids)

• Kent Marine (Super Chelated) Iron and Manganese

• CO2 (via yeast fermentation and sparkling water)

• And most importantly, KNO3 (potassium nitrate) and KH2PO4 (monopotassium phosphate)

Care should be taken while dosing phosphate (it was pointed out to me that diluting a small amount of KH2PO4 in water is an easier way to measure and dose small amounts of phosphate)

 

Nitrate is probably the most important nutrient for seagrass. Ideally it should be present in the substrate; however, it might be necessary to supplement it in the water column. Unfortunately, excessive nutrients in the water column can lead to nuisance algae and even cyanobacteria.

 

Star grass (Halophila engelmannii):

 

Developed roots:

 

Declined, but still hanging on:

 

10 Gallon Star Grass Lagoon

Final Summary, April 2007 (Livestock - part 4 of 5)

 

This contest tank functioned as a quarantine tank for a couple of Clown Gobies and a Clownfish.

Original Yellow Clown Goby (Gobiodon okinawae):

 

Ocellaris Clownfish (Amphiprion ocellaris):

 

New Goby:

 

In addition, this tank was the home of 2 Dwarf Feather Dusters:

 

Blastomussa merleti:

 

 

 

For a cleanup crew I kept:

• Dwarf Blue Leg Hermit Crabs

• Caribbean Nassarius Vibex Snails

• Astraea Snails

• Caribbean Cerith Snails

• Pacific Nerite Snails

• Trochus Snails

• Stomatella Snails

• Hawaiian Reef Brittle MiniStars

• Asterina Starfish.

 

I also kept two Peppermint Shrimp to rid the tank of Aiptasia (but they started picking at the coral, so I gave them away):

 

I replaced the Peppermint Shrimp with two Skunk Cleaner Shrimp (which ate my Stomatella Snails):