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Cycle Again?


Snow_Phoenix

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Hi, I have a question - several actually.

 

I have a 10G nano equipped with a back-sump, skimmer, light, chaeto and the works. The tank was doing really well until I fell unexpectedly ill last year and had to rush for emergency surgery, in which nearly everything essentially died one by one due to lack of care. The few survivors (corals and inverts) have been moved to a separate 5G QT tank.

 

I have started to re-cycle the 10G with new cured LR for more than a month now (since 2nd week of Dec 2016), but I wish to swap out the old LS because it is clogged with debri, some patches of Cyano and GHA. I have not changed the water since this new re-cycle process began around a month ago.

 

Now the tank has finished cycling after 4+ weeks. But I wish to swap out the old LS with new LS. Will this cause a new cycle? If yes, will the cycle be very long, or will it be minimal (soft cycle)?

 

-If- there appears to be no cycle after the new LS is added, how long should I wait before adding my first tester coral frag or sacrificial snail to appease the water Gods?

 

I'm nervous tbh. The LR itself is encrusted with coralline and fully cycled so I'm assuming it will seed the new LS, but I'm still unsure if there will be another major cycle afterwards, and if I should wait another few weeks just in case.

 

In short, I'm trying not to lose anymore livestock, even if it's a derpy snail.

 

Would appreciate some advice and feedback - many thanks in advance.

 

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It will not recycle :)

 

http://reef2reef.com/threads/the-official-sand-rinse-thread-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

 

There's several sand swap examples and painfully long detail on the matter

 

If you pulled out all the sand and didn't put any back, no recycle

 

If you changed out all of the sand for dry sand, no recycle as long as its done in the order we show there

 

Lastly, changing out for new wet pack sand is still no recycle

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  • 2 weeks later...

It will not recycle :)

 

http://reef2reef.com/threads/the-official-sand-rinse-thread-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

 

There's several sand swap examples and painfully long detail on the matter

 

If you pulled out all the sand and didn't put any back, no recycle

 

If you changed out all of the sand for dry sand, no recycle as long as its done in the order we show there

 

Lastly, changing out for new wet pack sand is still no recycle

 

Hi Brandon,

 

Sorry for contacting you like this (your PM inbox is full, I think), but I need your help.

 

I followed the instructions on the R2R thread, swapped out my sand carefully and did a tank transfer which went smoothly...at first. Then my major stock pump failed completely. When I removed the stock pump, there was a layer of thick debri and dead Chaeto underneath the pump which I didn't notice before.

 

Some of this debri and Chaeto unfortunately made it into the main DT while I wrestled with the sump's plumbing to detach the pump (My sump is at the back of the tank, not underneath it). I encountered a major nitrate spike, which I managed to keep under control for about a day before everything went to hell.

 

Took a quick reading few mins ago and now I'm suddenly registering around 2ppm ammonia in the tank and have successfully killed off 4 hitchiker crabs, 2 turban snails, 1 cowrie snail and possibly 2 duster worms. My remaining corals are in bad shape and melting - I moved any survivors (both my fish made it, thankfully) back to my QT with immediate effect.

 

My question is this - do I just let the current tank re-cycle again and wait it out for another month or so, or do I siphon out as much debri as I can and slowly re-rinse my sand?

 

I'm quite devastated to lose my livestock. Angry at myself for this whole mess-up, but upset otherwise.

 

Can you please point me in the right direction? You're the expert in tank cycles, so I figured you'd know how I can get the tank back on track.

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Snow thank you for posting we need cpr for your setup. In my opinion we need action while most would consider inaction the safest mode, we should arrest the ammonia portion of the event and the other two params won't matter immediately. Can you post us a current tank pic

 

 

Can you get some prime to add to the water? If you have access to a full water change matching temp and salinity of the current water that's the best bet in my opinion but we need to see a full tank shot if possible

 

I'm thinking the new setup already has rinsed sand such that it won't need reworked

Any debris that got back in the tank should just collect on top and be accessible...the full water change is what I would do and prime can be used if that's not available for quick neutralization of ammonia. It takes quite a big store of wastes to cycle a tank I'm hoping the tank pics will show critical details. A recycle always associates with waste stores so we like to isolate those waste stores in these swaps where possible

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Snow thank you for posting we need cpr for your setup. In my opinion we need action while most would consider inaction the safest mode, we should arrest the ammonia portion of the event and the other two params won't matter immediately. Can you post us a current tank pic

 

 

Can you get some prime to add to the water? If you have access to a full water change matching temp and salinity of the current water that's the best bet in my opinion but we need to see a full tank shot if possible

 

Yes, we do need CPR for it - it's in a really deep mess.

 

I will take a pic shortly and stick it up - give me a minute.

 

I think I do have some leftover Prime - I also have some API Ammo-Lock - so I think I can use that too, right? Right now, it's 1 hour+ away from midnight. All the equipment is locked out in the second kitchen, and we've bolted everything for the night. The earliest I can do a WC is tomorrow after I return from my appointment at the hospital. Water temp is around 26'C, salinity is still at 1.025.

 

I'll get that FTS for you. Hang on for a bit.

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Hi Brandon, here are the pics under white light (no blues):

 

1. Feather duster crown.

 

145f9e5c1401434a8d51b87371381d00.png

 

2. Dead tiny duster worm (just died):

 

3282a8ed1b7d49549f832ba347b22f6d.png

 

3. Debri and dead Chaeto all over sandbed (sand was originally pitch-black):

 

1126ceefd23942e3bd208a19865bbd1e.png

 

dc7dd60ebfa643eaa05cb05786d34642.png

 

4. FTS.

 

afd436ae72bf4f49816856e74c6a015c.png

 

This is the current state of the tank. Should I remove all the sand? So far the debri hasn't permeated the lower parts of the sandbed, but the nitrate levels are pushing 100ppm - which is extremely high.

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That is excellent documentation of a stressful situation I can see. It's no celebration that someone's $ and animal menagerie are under stress but for science purposes those photos and measures are cycle thread important

 

It's really helpful for others to see I'm glad you posted it. The filter bacteria will not die from a final rinse clean do over, and that is the cpr for the tank. A full export and rinse and cleaning all in one pass. In all our threads I've never seen a picture of detritus-localized ammonia pocketing and that above is it. Your tank will show the ability to stop leaking ammonia quickly as soon as all detritus is removed

 

 

We get a protein density hint about that detritus loading by your high nitrate measure

 

It's ironic that more access/cleaning would be the mode

 

 

8/10 would not address it other than top cleaning out of concern of another cycle, they'd deal with the nitrates via carbon dosing or ATS installs

 

I'd use a light brush and brush off all rock accumulation outside tank in clean saltwater

 

Full sand rinse as you said

 

Final rinse in sw, then set up all clean zero silting it will arrest the cycle as the true cure for the condition.

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That is excellent documentation of a stressful situation I can see. It's no celebration that someone's $ and animal menagerie are under stress but for science purposes those photos and measures are cycle thread important

 

It's really helpful for others to see I'm glad you posted it. The filter bacteria will not die from a final rinse clean do over, and that is the cpr for the tank. A full export and rinse and cleaning all in one pass. In all our threads I've never seen a picture of detritus-localized ammonia pocketing and that above is it. Your tank will show the ability to stop leaking ammonia quickly as soon as all detritus is removed

 

 

We get a protein density hint about that detritus loading by your high nitrate measure

 

It's ironic that more access/cleaning would be the mode

 

 

8/10 would not address it other than top cleaning out of concern of another cycle, they'd deal with the nitrates via carbon dosing or ATS installs

 

I'd use a light brush and brush off all rock accumulation outside tank in clean saltwater

 

Full sand rinse as you said

 

Final rinse in sw, then set up all clean zero silting it will arrest the cycle as the true cure for the condition.

Alright. I will do a final rinse of the sandbed and remove as much of the debri as I can. I just lost my last cowrie snail in QT - I think he was too stressed out by the conditions in the DT. Do you recommend that I run Phosban alongside carbon once I rinse the sandbed and re-add it to the tank? Also, I am wet skimming but the skimmer is in the sump - where there is no water flow since there is no pump to push the current. Shall I put the skimmer temporarily in the display to reduce NO3 and PO4 levels - even after I re-add the sand (as a precaution)?

 

Thank you for responding btw. I appreciate it.

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That looks like a lot of sand... :unsure:
I wouldn't keep more then an 1/2-1" or so. By siphoning out the top layer you should also get almost all the detritus that has settled in the sand :)

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That looks like a lot of sand... :unsure:

I wouldn't keep more then an 1/2-1" or so. By siphoning out the top layer you should also get almost all the detritus that has settled in the sand :)

Hi sailfish, the sandbed is about 2" thick. I wanted it to be thicker than usual since I planned on keeping a pistol shrimp again in the future. But livestock stocking is not on my priority list atm. I will definitely try to siphon out the dirt but I think I will rinse the sand and re-add it to the tank as well.
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Hi sailfish, the sandbed is about 2" thick. I wanted it to be thicker than usual since I planned on keeping a pistol shrimp again in the future. But livestock sticking is not on my priority list atm. I will definitely try to siphon out the dirt but I think I will rinse the sand and re-add it to the tank as well.

I would keep the sand bed thin, especially considering the fact that your substrate looks quite coarse (allows debris to settle deep).

If you want to keep live stock that needs deeper substrate, I recommend you to use a finer substrate so that it will be less of a detritus trap.

I hope your tank gets better soon. Really great that you are set on doing your best to mend the problem!

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I've kept a pistol shrimp with less than 1" sandbed without any issues for 3 years, Having good liverock that is securely touching the bottom of the tank is more important in my opinion. I also agree with using the finer substrate as it is much easier for the smaller species of shrimp to move around along with the benefit of less build up in the sand. If you don't have the rock touching the glass now, and you get a shrimp, it will eventually shift until it does because of the pistol shrimp.

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I would keep the sand bed thin, especially considering the fact that your substrate looks quite coarse (allows debris to settle deep).

If you want to keep live stock that needs deeper substrate, I recommend you to use a finer substrate so that it will be less of a detritus trap.

I hope your tank gets better soon. Really great that you are set on doing your best to mend the problem!

 

 

I've kept a pistol shrimp with less than 1" sandbed without any issues for 3 years, Having good liverock that is securely touching the bottom of the tank is more important in my opinion. I also agree with using the finer substrate as it is much easier for the smaller species of shrimp to move around along with the benefit of less build up in the sand. If you don't have the rock touching the glass now, and you get a shrimp, it will eventually shift until it does because of the pistol shrimp.

 

Alright - I will remove the top layer of sand then and toss that out, but I will rinse the rest and re-add it to the display. Thank you all for your responses.

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Well, derp - I just lost my Saron in the QT. Found him strung up in the Chaeto basket - he might have been dead since morning since he was already exuding an awful odor. I'm down to three/four pieces of not-so-happy coral, two duster worms (one with a missing crown), one nem crab, one annoyingly happy clownfish and one slightly stressed out mandarin. I've already performed a major WC in the QT - tomorrow I will be tackling the DT and the nefarious dirt-encrusted sandbed.

 

Let's hope this TT works a second time.

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When SHTF (shit hits the fan) - 100% Water Change
When live stock seems "off" - 100% Water Change
When nervous - 100% Water Change

When you are bored - 100% Water Change

When you f***ing feel like it - 100% Water Change

You catch my drift :)

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When SHTF (shit hits the fan) - 100% Water Change

When live stock seems "off" - 100% Water Change

When nervous - 100% Water Change

When you are bored - 100% Water Change

When you f***ing feel like it - 100% Water Change

 

You catch my drift :)

 

Yep, I did that - 100% WC, got everyone out, replaced everyone back in. Hopefully they will be fine - I won't traumatize anyone else by shifting them back immediately to the display even after I clean the DT. I'll give it a week or two and then see how it goes. After all, I can only get my new stock pump in 7 days time. Tsk.

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