Hamster bottle ATO issues

[Jrodinnola]

I'm working on installing a hamster bottle style ato on my 2g pico, but the bottle won't empty when turned directly upside down.. I was thinking maybe the exit tube was too small, but I've seen people like nanosapiens use the standard hamster bottle with no issues. Am I missing something here?

 

EDIT- there is no metal ball in this container and I've tried it with both a standard hamster bottle with the ball removed and this glass oil/vinegar bottle. Neither works correctly.

 

[jbb]

Did you remove the ball from the inside of the tube ?

[ajmckay]

Did you remove the ball from the inside of the tube ?

This.

 

Normally the ball blocks the water from coming out. When you take the ball out you're relying instead on the internal pressure of the water bottle to hold the water in - think of it like submerging a cup in water and turning it upside down then trying to pull it out of the water. The water stays in the cup until air is allowed to take it's place. Same thing - as the water level drop bits of air enter the water bottle and that lets out water.

[Jrodinnola]

Lol, I'm aware of how this concept works. There is no ball in this container- it's an oil/vinegar bottle with a completely open spout (just figured it would look a bit better aesthetically).

 

I'm unsure if this issue has something to do with a difference in atmospheric pressure (a lot of you guys seem to be at a higher altitude relative to sea level than me) since I'm below sea level, and from what I remember in physics, the pressure is much higher here.

 

The other thought I had was that since metals usually have a charge on them and water is a polarized molecule, I thought maybe some electrostatic interactions were going on; just enough to hold the water in the tube... so I put some airline tubing inside the metal tube to see if it drained any better; it helped a little, but it wouldn't restart to drain once the water level reached the bottle.

 

It works fine if I don't use the included tip, but half of the bottle spills out before I can get it set up when I do that.

[dandelion]

Try drilling a very small hole at the bottom of the bottle. Air needs to be able to go in to equalize the pressure. Think about it: water comes out from the "top" (bottom when it's pointed down), a vacuum will be created in the bottom of the bottle sucking water back up. Alternatively, if the hole is big enough, stick a piece of those small straw-like coffee stirrer into the hole for air to go in. You may have to somehow bend it upward to avoid it going into the water.

[uwdanno]

Try drilling a very small hole at the bottom of the bottle. Air needs to be able to go in to equalize the pressure.

+1 that

[Nano sapiens]

Hmmm....

 

I recall a post or two where people had tried to use this concept with a relatively long piece of plastic tubing and encountered a similar issue.

 

It is likely that the length and diameter of the plastic tubing plays a role (and possibly the shape, as well). Being below sea level could also be factor. You mentioned that without the tube half the water spills out which indicates to me that the spout needs to be modified.

 

First thing I'd try is to cut the tip of the tube to a 45 degree angle. If that doesn't work, keep the 45 angle and try progessively cutting the tube a little shorter (test each time between cuts until it starts working).

[Jrodinnola]

Try drilling a very small hole at the bottom of the bottle. Air needs to be able to go in to equalize the pressure. Think about it: water comes out from the "top" (bottom when it's pointed down), a vacuum will be created in the bottom of the bottle sucking water back up. Alternatively, if the hole is big enough, stick a piece of those small straw-like coffee stirrer into the hole for air to go in. You may have to somehow bend it upward to avoid it going into the water.

The container actually had a small diameter metal straw to help with air already inside the main tube.. as soon as I saw it wasn't working, I removed it and tried it with just the spout. I also tried using rigid 1/4" tubing and soft airline, one short and one long to help, but that didn't work either....

Hmmm....

 

I recall a post or two where people had tried to use this concept with a relatively long piece of plastic tubing and encountered a similar issue.

 

It is likely that the length and diameter of the plastic tubing plays a role (and possibly the shape, as well). Being below sea level could also be factor. You mentioned that without the tube half the water spills out which indicates to me that the spout needs to be modified.

 

First thing I'd try is to cut the tip of the tube to a 45 degree angle. If that doesn't work, keep the 45 angle and try progessively cutting the tube a little shorter (test each time between cuts until it starts working).

I'm going to give this a shot as soon as I get home. I was thinking that I'd have to increase the diameter, but shortening the spout may reduce the amount of pressure needed to push the water out, and especially in combo with the angled 45 in the end. Will update soon.

[Jrodinnola]

So the cutoff idea didn't work either. It has to be something with atmospheric pressure here (New Orleans) that's causing issues and improper drainage. Kind of at a loss what to do here.. can't really find anything that will work. I'd consider trying one of those aquaglobe plant waterers, but I don't want to have the same problem and waste another 10-15$ that could've been used on frags, lol.

 

Before cutting

 

1st cut

 

Last cut with a trim in the inside too

 

I tested between each cut.. no dice. This is very frustrating.

 

Forgot to mention- I've also tried this with a standard hamster bottle. It doesn't work either, which is why I'm led to believe it has something to do with the atmospheric pressure.

[dandelion]

Try drilling a small hole on the bottom of the hamster bottle.

 

So the cutoff idea didn't work either. It has to be something with atmospheric pressure here (New Orleans) that's causing issues and improper drainage. Kind of at a loss what to do here.. can't really find anything that will work. I'd consider trying one of those aquaglobe plant waterers, but I don't want to have the same problem and waste another 10-15$ that could've been used on frags, lol.

 

Before cutting

 

1st cut

 

Last cut with a trim in the inside too

 

I tested between each cut.. no dice. This is very frustrating.

 

Forgot to mention- I've also tried this with a standard hamster bottle. It doesn't work either, which is why I'm led to believe it has something to do with the atmospheric pressure.

[Jrodinnola]

Try drilling a small hole on the bottom of the hamster bottle.

 

 

When you say bottom, do you mean the bottom when its inverted or the bottom when it's sitting up like normal? A better way to put it- is it side that's closest to the spout or farthest from the spout?

 

Also, The pictured container is not an actual hamster bottle.. it's a vegetable oil storage bottle made of glass and I don't have any diamond tipped drill bits. I do have an old plastic hamster bottle that try this with.

[dandelion]

I was going to suggest drill a hole on the side furthest away from the spout. But that it may cause the bottle to dump all of its content into the tank even when water level is still above the spout opening.

 

Maybe mix in a pinch (literally) of kalk into the topoff water and see if it can reduce surface tension? Try a pinch of anything that you would safely put into the tank and see.