Might be joining the hobby, looking for discussion

[SaintPhillipz]

-Well, my wife and I were thinking about setting up a freshwater tank- Back in the 90's I always had tanks and loved them but was never huge into it and havnt had a tank in probably 20 years... Anyhow, when researching what we wanted to go with I was amazed at how technology has progressed and began looking into saltwater which has always been a dream of mine but the cost and effort dissuaded me from ever trying.

 

I came across these nano reef tanks and tbh my mind is blown- Ive probably been reading and watching youtube vids for a good 80 hours and I'm about ready to make the jump but am still not sure...

 

I'm not wanting to sink too much money into this until I know for sure its something i'm going to like and want to do- If I enjoy it, tank maintenance will be joy and if not a chore- Ive found a local pet store that has promised me they will take any fish I purchase back so I am wanting to have a setup that could feasibly be converted to fresh water in case this ends up being a 'chore' and so I'm hoping to have equipment that is mostly interchangeable between salt and freshwater so money isnt wasted if this doesnt work out.

 

Ive been looking at some of the 'all in one' sets by Fluval (like the 13.5 gallon evo) but have also been thinking that 13.5 gallon is tiny (although ive seen some amazing set ups on youtube with even 5 gallin tanks, lol) and Im thinking ill need at least (min) 20 gallon and have been debating just buying a tank and setting everything up myself for quite a bit less money. What do you guys recommend?

 

Also, is 20 gallons even really enough? I know that if I end up loving the hobby I'm the type who will upgrade and upgrade and upgrade until I have a giant tank- But I also want to build this nanotank with no concrete plan to ever upgrade- So I want a build that will never require upgrading if I decide I never want to go bigger- BUT I also am certain I want a pair of clownfish and a Goby and his shrimp friend, along with a starfish and a few clean up crew type fish- I know ive seen more than that in a 20 gallon but I want to try and do this properly instead of just cramming in the max amount- And those fish are a must have.

 

I'm thinking of going with that fake rock like reef rock 2.1 and want as much soft coral as I can possibly fit- Any thoughts on rocks and coral? I love the look of the coral under the bright blue LED's and is one of the main reasons I want a saltwater tank, any suggestions as to the best looking coral that can be kept together ?

 

Anyhow, still thinking this all through and any discussion or suggestions would be appreciated- I'm still trying to wrap my head around these nano tanks because back in the day you generally never saw saltwater tanks below 55 gal .

 

This will be a process and i'm not really in a hurry- Just more worried about doing it right the first time.

 

Thanks-

 

 

[SelectedByNature]

Hi and welcome!

 

I a new reefer too (actually not even a reefer as my tank is still cycling!)

 

I was where you are now, about 2 months ago. Since then I've been researching non-stop and cant wait to start this journey. Based on many of the same reasons you stated, I went with the LED Biocube 32. I'm not advocating this tank over others just that the size and light should be decent enough to keep me interested with many options until/if I decide to upgrade and upgrade as you say (but at that point I can upgrade to a bigger tank and still use this one for various purposes (nano tank/frag tank/freshwater, etc.).

I feel the all-in-one (AIO) tanks are a good starting point as they have all the makings of what you need to succeed without busting your wallet (too much - expensive hobby after all).

 

The one difference I would say I have is I love maintenance and interacting with the tank and watching my (soon-to-be) inhabitants. I definitely don't see it as a chore and I have several planted FW communites also that I enjoy maintaining. Perhaps you should REALLY consider it hard if this is a legit desire for you to have a reef tank or more of a pipe dream or "wouldn't it be cool if". Only because this can be very expensive. I've probably dropped 2k CAD so far and haven't bought a fish or coral yet.

 

Anyway, the people here are super nice and respond very quickly so you couldn't have come to a better place.

 

I hope you choose to join the hobby and that it's as rewarding to you as it is to most...

 

Cheers!

[SaintPhillipz]

Hi and welcome!

 

I a new reefer too (actually not even a reefer as my tank is still cycling!)

 

I was where you are now, about 2 months ago. Since then I've been researching non-stop and cant wait to start this journey. Based on many of the same reasons you stated, I went with the LED Biocube 32. I'm not advocating this tank over others just that the size and light should be decent enough to keep me interested with many options until/if I decide to upgrade and upgrade as you say (but at that point I can upgrade to a bigger tank and still use this one for various purposes (nano tank/frag tank/freshwater, etc.).

 

I feel the all-in-one (AIO) tanks are a good starting point as they have all the makings of what you need to succeed without busting your wallet (too much - expensive hobby after all).

 

The one difference I would say I have is I love maintenance and interacting with the tank and watching my (soon-to-be) inhabitants. I definitely don't see it as a chore and I have several planted FW communites also that I enjoy maintaining. Perhaps you should REALLY consider it hard if this is a legit desire for you to have a reef tank or more of a pipe dream or "wouldn't it be cool if". Only because this can be very expensive. I've probably dropped 2k CAD so far and haven't bought a fish or coral yet.

 

Anyway, the people here are super nice and respond very quickly so you couldn't have come to a better place.

 

I hope you choose to join the hobby and that it's as rewarding to you as it is to most...

 

Cheers!

Hey Thanks man!

 

I'm pretty certain I will enjoy the maintenance but just dont know - Once of those things that I'm just unsure. I know I enjoyed it on freshwater but it really only took maybe an hour every 2 weeks and my responsibilities were far less back in the 'good ol days' =P

 

I know I enjoy taking care of my other pets but theyre more of the sat and dog variety and I just dont know about fish yet- I'd hate to end up finding out that its not something I'll like which is why I'm wanting a system that can be switched over to freshwater of that happens without losing too much money.

 

That LED 32 is sweet (just looked it up) but that would be something id upgrade into lol- I'm wanting to stay around the $150- $200 for the tank and equipment since I figure I'll probably easily be doubling the cost once I stock it with coral and rock-Overall I'm wanting to try and stay below $500 total (if possible) since this started out as a quest for a couple hundred dollar freshwater setup and will certainly be more than I planned to spend- A tank like you have would be something I'd be upgrading into in a year or so if I like this as much as I think I will.

 

Yeah, this whole thing has me really interested- Cannot be,ive how much technology has pushed aquarium keeping and I'm really excited to get started with everything so Ill actually have fish in the tank 6 months down the road lol

[fishfreak0114]

Hey there! If you're wanting to keep this tank fairly cheap, I'd recommend a standard 20l tank, perhaps rapidled lights or something from China off eBay. Aquaclear HOB filters are often used because they're effective and fairly easy to keep clean and Intank makes a media basket for it. So there's a few things to check out

 

My tank has been set up for almost 2 years now. It's a biocube 29 and I certainly find it to be enough space (although I can't fit many more corals in). Corals aren't cheap. Going in I had planned to keep spending to a minimum, but I've probably put $800+ of coral in that glass box since the beginning. If you want to avoid spending ridiculous amounts, look for local hobbysists selling coral because it will usually be cheaper than from a store. Also, named corals cost way more! They're not any better IMO, I just buy what looks nice to me.

 

Maintaince is definitely a large and important part of the hobby. But I don't find it a chore (but I'm used to lots of maintenance, I have 6 FW tanks). I actually look forward to waterchanges when I tinker in the tank and tweak things to just how I like it. It's pretty relaxing (until I find a big bristleworm near my hand and freak out haha).

 

The people on this forum are awesome and more than willing to help, so don't hesitate to ask questions. No question is a bad question!

 

Also for ideas, check out people's build threads to see what has worked for others, especially in the 20g range if that's what you're looking at potentially getting. Tank of the months are great reads too, obviously they're doing something right!

 

Hope this helps

[burtbollinger]

I respect the desire to stay thrifty, but depending on what you do, youre certainly going to be brushing up against that 500 dollar limit. You gotta anticipate pristine water, salt, test kits, rock, sand, tank, light, filter, filter media, powerhead, heater, thermometer, refractometer, GFCI strip, livestock....People here will help you be as budgetwise as possible, but in my experience, take what you thought you were gonna spend and double it.

 

this just isnt a cheap hobby and its the little things that you dont think about that get you.

 

Do a ton of reading, lurking...start filling some carts online...you'll get a good ballpark figure. I may not be the best to ask though, I think I helped a gentleman today blow about 2300 bucks by my calculations.

 

I've found starting a new tank in this hobby, be it 10 or 40g is gonna cost as much as a decent PC...whatever decent means to you. but again, people on here will help you be as thrifty as possible, and we'll probably get some folks on here telling you I'm full it it...The poster above's ideas seem to make sense.

 

Also, My entire approach could be wrong. Lots of opinions and ways to be successful....But your approach could be wrong as well...this hobby can be all-encompassing, hardcore, and I think going in with the mentality of 'if i don't like it I'll switch it to fresh' should count as at least a tiny alarm bell ringing. Either way, welcome and good luck.

[SaintPhillipz]

This may be a dumb question but...

 

I have an Artisian Well (super deep spring fed well system) which is about as pure as you can get for drinking- Its so good it doesnt need softened .

 

I know its recommended to use reverse osmosis water thats been highly distilled but I think (at least from a purity standpoint) artisian well water is superior- Just have no idea about for fish.

 

And why does everything fun have to be so expensive-I hope I can stay below $500 or i'm gunna be dealing with wife aggro =P

 

Thanks for all the responses guys- been browsing the forums and finding a ton of great information, glad to be here and i appreciate the responses.

 

EDIT- I'm asking this for the water used to top the tank off- initially i'll be getting water from the pet store that comes from their tanks...If well water cant be used I imagine ill just buy ro water and then get a cheap reverse osmosis unit down the road.

[Kellie in CA]

I started with a Biocube and it pretty much came with all the main equipment I needed to get myself started with some easy corals. Luckily where I live, there are some great warehouse type places where I was able to cherry pick a few nice live rocks for a good price. Some of the cost is going to depend if you have to pay shipping on every item you need. $500 is going to be a challenge, but I think your best bet is an all-in-one tank.

[SaintPhillipz]

I started with a Biocube and it pretty much came with all the main equipment I needed to get myself started with some easy corals. Luckily where I live, there are some great warehouse type places where I was able to cherry pick a few nice live rocks for a good price. Some of the cost is going to depend if you have to pay shipping on every item you need. $500 is going to be a challenge, but I think your best bet is an all-in-one tank.

Yeah I'll be paying shipping or buying from a local shop.

 

I'm in Michigan so pretty much everything is going to end up coming from across the nation/world. I have some friends in Florida who can get alot of things far cheaper than I can butby the time its shipped I imagine it'll be nearly as cheap just at the local fish store- FYI we have a really good and highly ratet pet store to go to which is specialized and seems about as cheap as the big box stores ive found online

[burtbollinger]

don't plan on the well water access saving you any money.

[SelectedByNature]

+1 what Burt said about the little things getting you. That's what cost me a lot so far.

 

The tank itself was 400$ CAD, But then the rock, sand, heater and powerhead had me at about 1000$. I bought the stand with the tank too but not counting that since it's an option.

 

All the little things like test kits, 100$ on salt for mixing, refractometer, cleaning accessories (that I already had but rebought since I use on my them on my freshwater tank.)

 

I don't regret any of it though and I'm definitely not trying to talk you out of it, but the cost is pretty nuts. I thought after buying the tank the worse was done. So adorable.

 

But money was no object for me and I was all too happy to min/max everything with A+ supplies.

 

There is absolutely a budget route that I did not go down!!!

 

Cheers

[Nola Bear]

I don't know about your reefer community where you live, but be sure to sign on to any local club forums and see what they are selling and tell them what you are looking for, too. Often times, reefers have tanks in the garage or in a closet. And be sure to hit up craigslist too. I've bought my last two tanks off of CL and for an absolute steal. I would also suggest sticking with an AIO, and my personal preference is innovative marine just because I had an IM 10 for my starter tank, and I love it.

 

As for deep well water, take a sample to an LFS and ask them to use their TDS meter to check it for you. If they won't, find a different LFS.

 

$500 is super tight, but it could be done if you are willing to hustle a bit~

[Everardc]

If you want a nano reef, and dont want to ever upgrade, I would say the tank I have is perfect for pretty much anything. Its an Innovative Marine Fusion 25 Lagoon.. It has the best dimensions ive ever seen in a glass tank.

[gonebad395]

Hey man welcome to the first of many steps if I was you a biocube 29ish would be where I start. The smaller the water volume the more you have to watch it. Going to be up front to start it's work but reading and and forums like this will help you out. Nothing here comes quick nothing takes time and patience but it's not hard just takes time. But I promise you the enjoyment is worth it I and my kids spend more time watching our tank them tv most the time.i hope you try it but don't break the bank but also don't skimp it will make it easier in the long run

 

Good luck

Keith

[jtwisconsin]

I had a similar experience. Had freshwater aquariums, got out of them because I didn't maintain them and got bored. I actually lurked on this forum for three years(!!) before setting up my first reef tank in 2013.

 

My favorite recommendation for a budget tank is 20 gallon long along with an AC70 filter. That is big enough to not feel tiny, but not too big to get expensive. Use distilled water to avoid purchasing a RODI for now, and make your own saltwater. Get a Jebao WP-10 for a wavemaker, live sand, and dry rock. You will still need a few other items like a refractometer, extra heater and powerhead for making saltwater, buckets, and a basic test kit like API for the cycle.

 

Lighting is one of the most expensive parts of this hobby. Personally I have only used DIY LED kits but the inexpensive Chinese lights or used equipment can be a good alternative.

 

Make a spreadsheet and add up everything you need and see what you come up with. Don't forget that this is just equipment - you still need a budget for livestock.

[Bcb577]

Well sounds like your thinking of the right questions.imho,keep doing research,and watching youtube videos.aio tanks are a great way to start,but being a bigger guy I find it harder to work in the back chamber of my bc 14 gallon,wish I went bigger.I also have a ten gallon standard which I pieced all together myself as far as the equipment goes.To be honest if I had to pic which type of tank to do as my first sw tank I would do a 20 gallon and buy the equipment and price it together.I found out that with my aio,as soon as I got it,people were telling me stuff like the stock pump sucks you need to upgrade the pump.then it was man you need to cut the tab off of the chamber and buy a media basket,lol.so no matter what you get in some people's minds it's not going to be good enough,don't get me wrong they mean well but not all of us can just write a blank check and start replacing stock parts on a tank we just spent hundreds of bucks on,lol.just do lots of research which it sounds like your doing,get lots of different opinions and make the best choice for YOUR situation.But again just my two cents worth,aio tanks are great,but what worked best for me was peiceing my ten gallon standard but I'd go with at least a twenty gallon if I were to start over.Anyway,I hope this helps good luck to you!

[cycled123]

I'm a newbie too. I retrofitted a 37gal 30x12x22 tank. The lights broke our original 800-1000 budget. Most lights fit a 24x24 cube and we needed a 30" spread to fit our length. We are very happy with the aquasanrise 60 from reef breeders that we got but the $450 price tag was hard to swallow. If I did it again I would go with an all in one. (or buy a complete setup off of someone...Now that I have joined several forums, facebook groups and a local reef society I could have gotten a lot for cheaper...Your $500 will go a long way buying used) I have had a few ups and downs already (lost some coral) but am still glad we started a SW tank after having fresh for 10+ years. There is nothing like the colors and movement of a saltwater reef tank.

[SaintPhillipz]

Hey guys, thanks for all the info and replies-

 

ive been looking and found this- https://jxn.craigslist.org/for/5948287298.html it looks like a steal to me, any thoughts?

 

And can I add sand to an already established tank without killing the fish? Its weird looking at getting something already established when everything ive researched has been more step by step to set something up fresh...I want sand though (not bare bottom) but beggars cant be choosers either and this is around half my budget...I'm close to just grabbing this up but would appreciate unbiased opinions from you guys.

[burtbollinger]

on the surface, it looks like a no brainer with your budget.

 

BUT only if you know what you are doing.

 

you dont wanna get that in house then start asking questions....as OK a deal as this is, my vibe is you still have research to do before you get a tank, and your home has to be totally prepped with the material needed to transition this tank to its new location. (some new water, test kits, electrical.)

 

it wont be the last deal you see on craigslist...but this does have the simple corals, the simple fish, and the simple setup you need. all there for 250. its a toss up, I guess.

 

If you do get it in house, I'd make sure you have a local connection at a LFS who can help, and you also need to start researching info about proper tank parameters and maintenance triple-time.

 

I guess...figure out if youre serious or not...decide what to do.

 

Do be aware that the 250 you drop is just the start though....you gonna need to probably spend another 250 on miscellaneous crap you dont have very soon.

 

Also youre gonna need to hit the ground running with that thing...you gotta break it down, move it, set it back up, test, partial water change at the ready, all sorts of stuff....this is a critical time for the tank....and you can't be winging it, and you kinda need to know what you're doing.

Best case scenario....maybe tell the guy you want it and he holds it for 2-3 weeks while you get seriously prepped. Surely he's not moving tomorrow or something.

[SaintPhillipz]

lol, I know. right- Ive got a million and three things to do.

 

I have a basic understanding of the parameters - i.e. I understand the numbers ill be shooting for but thats about it- I imaging ill end up with a ton that needs figured out...I'll have to get all the testing supplies but that shouldnt be a problem since Ill have quite a bit of money left over before I start hitting my cap.

 

I'm pretty sure the guy i talked to at the pet store will give me good advice but other than that I imagine ill be turning here as well since I really dont know any other salt water tank owners.

 

Anyhow, I shot the guy an email and am just hoping he hasnt already sold it-

[burtbollinger]

I would not mess with adding anything else to the tank at this time, sand included. you dont need the mess.

 

explore that down the line. if you get this tank...worry about sand in 3 months. first things first.

as an aside...youre gonna wanna pump this guy for numbers...what temp. salinity, alkalinity hes running the tank at...etc.

 

your goal is a super easy transition.

 

you gonna need containers for his water, containers to transport the rocks, etc....and it needs to not be in the bed of a cold pickup or something.

 

YOU may want to see if the LFS could be hired out to assist with the move. I did this on a move and it makes sense here.

 

Use some money to hire help to move.

 

ALso good because you wont be at a strangers house as long.

[SaintPhillipz]

I would not mess with adding anything to the tank at this time, sand included. you dont need the mess.

 

explore that down the line. if you get this tank...worry about sand in 3 months. first things first.

I totally agree- I probably wont mess with a thing for quite some time, just wondering if was possible to do.

 

I'm pretty much figuring that since the tank is established as is, my concern will be to just keep things going right without adding any complexity until Ive grasped the basics.

 

Thanks alot for the sound advice

[burtbollinger]

dude...really really see if a LFS can assist with the move and initial set up for you. it would be worth whatever they charge. they'll have the containers, the extra water, the vehicle...

 

if you do that, and this setup gets into your home for under 400 bucks, id consider it a steal....and its doable.

[SaintPhillipz]

dude...really really see if a LFS can assist with the move and initial set up for you. it would be worth whatever they charge.

 

if you do that, and this setup gets into your home for under 400 bucks, id consider it a steal....and its doable.

Thats not a bad idea at all- I never would have thought to even ask, I had just planned on having my brother in law and a few friends come and bag the fish, empty part of the water and heft it into the truck and drive here- However, you're right- Even if it maxes me out and takes my budget its probably a much safer bet and they probably have methods to keep the fish from stressing out .

[burtbollinger]

The less clueless people hovering around that tank in a rush to get in and out of some strangers house the better.

 

when you do this...it needs to be done with speed and precision. The day of, its not time to shoot the breeze and have some pizza with your moving crew....you need to be ON IT both tear down and set up...an LFS who do maintenance on tanks for people has this experience. thats what you look for, a marine tank maintenance crew...find an LFS who has one.

 

I had a very severe arm injury and hired an LFS for a move, was an amazing experience....its the only way to do it. fake an injury if necessary.

[SelectedByNature]

Agreed with everything Burt has said.

 

If you do pull this off successfully (I do have doubts as it's quite the undertaking for a new hobbyist), Christmas will have come late for you.

 

Hope it all works out!