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Help! Fish breathing hard, unresponsive


jfran

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I am brand new to saltwater. So please be kind.

 

Today I did a water change of about 20%. My SG was getting close to 1.025 so I wanted to lower it a bit. So when I changed the water, I mixed in some treated freshwater with my premixed RO/DI saltwater from my LFS. The SG afterwards was around 1.0235 and everybody seemed happy. I fed my Black Ray Goby and watched him amusingly hover over one of my hermits to grab any bits that the hermit threw up. Everything seemed stable.

 

I left for a fundraising event, and when I got home the goby was lying out in the open, breathing hard, and he didn't run for a hiding place like he normally does when I walk in the room. He just sat there breathing hard. The SG had dropped even further to 1.022 (which is a lesson to me that the hydrometer reading is not necessarily immediate).

 

I have no idea the cause. I am about to go test my parameters. Is it the SG? Is it the fact that my snail seems to be slowly dying? (I asked about that in another thread I made but no one has responded...) or maybe its due to nitrates or something (which would be weird seeing that I just changed the water).

 

Please help!

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The tank is 3 gallons. The goby is the only fish. I have two hermit crabs, one emerald crab, and a paralyzed nassarius snail. The tank is two weeks old (not including cycle).

 

I will give you parameters once tested again.

SG: 1.022

Temp: 79 degrees F

 

Anything else youd like?

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Three and a half weeks is not very long either. That's probably the answer to all your problems. If you have an understanding LFS I would return everything but the live rock and do a proper cycle.

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Three and a half weeks is not very long either. That's probably the answer to all your problems. If you have an understanding LFS I would return everything but the live rock and do a proper cycle.

 

Explain "proper cycle". Is a cycle in which you end up with no ammonia, no nitrites, and plenty of nitrate not proper?

 

What is your ammonia at? Nitrites? Nitrates? You said your SG had creeped up to 1.025. Are you topping off with salt water?

 

I am about to go test. I haven't left my computer yet. No I am not topping off with saltwater, I just hadn't topped off with anything so naturally the concentration of salt in the water will go up as water evaporates.

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GunslingerGirl

Hey! I understand the desire to get things started! But keep in mind that these fish are more fragile (and expensive) than FW fish.

 

We all want you to succeed. So please don't tear us down because we are slow to respond.

 

WV is right, generally a tank is going to take longer to cycle. My old 5 gallon took three months to finish, now granted that was slow because I used partially cured LR, however, a month or longer is not unheard of for a cycle.

 

Keeping your SG constant will help the inhabitants recover better (if they are able to). I recommend a refractometer and an ATO.

 

What is "plenty of nitrate"?

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burtbollinger

your tank did not cycle. with your skill level you should not be anywhere near a 3 gallon tank.

 

'a week and a half or so" what was a week and a half or so? how did you do the cycle, exactly? how did you know it was over? did you test to ensure or did you guess based on a timeline someone told you or you made up?

 

before you answers that tho, lets get this out of the way: you probably need to return the fish and your snail from the other thread in the AM if its not dead. You have NO clue what you are doing. You have not properly researched and in NO WAY is a 3 gallon acceptable. There was very, very little room for error with this size.

 

Clearly, youre swinging your salinity all over the place in a very likely uncycled tank...why are you trying to lower your salinity which was perfect at 1.025? why did you think you needed to mess with it?

 

also, we want parameters for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Alkalinity. Do you have test kits for those?

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What type of water did you mix with the saltwater to dilute it? Was it RO/DI or was it tap water?

 

Also, your ammonia and nitrite levels might help give us a bit more insight about what may be going wrong too.

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GunslingerGirl

your tank did not cycle. with your skill level you should not be anywhere near a 3 gallon tank.

 

you need to return the fish in the AM if its not dead. you have NO clue what you are doing. you have not properly researched and in NO WAY is a 3 gallon acceptable.

Whoa. Let's try to be nice.

 

I started with a 5 gallon and a clownfish. We all make mistakes. Let's help him learn and fix this situation.

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burtbollinger

Whoa. Let's try to be nice.

 

I started with a 5 gallon and a clownfish. We all make mistakes. Let's help him learn and fix this situation.

don't tell me what to do. are you the tone police? if not, back off with the big sister/white knight routine. I've helped more people than you can imagine. im sitting here researching his other threads, typing responses and assisting.

 

am I insulting myself when I say taht with my skill level I would not go anywhere near a 3 gallon tank? No. It's just a fact.

 

very curious what ammonia and nitrite numbers come back...and if these test kits are accessible.

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your tank did not cycle. with your skill level you should not be anywhere near a 3 gallon tank.

 

'a week and a half or so" what was a week and a half or so? how did you do the cycle, exactly? how did you know it was over?

 

before you answers that tho, lets get this out of the way: you need to return the fish and your snail n the AM if its not dead. You have NO clue what you are doing. You have not properly researched and in NO WAY is a 3 gallon acceptable. There was very little room for error with this size.

 

Clearly, youre swinging your salinity all over the place in a very likely uncycled tank...why are you trying to lower your salinity which was perfect at 1.025? why did you think you needed to mess with it?

 

also, we want parameters for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Alkalinity. Do you have test kits for those?

 

 

don't tell me what to do. are you the tone police? if not, back off with the big sister/white knight routine. I've helped more people than you can imagine. im sitting here researching his other threads, typing responses and assisting.

 

very curious what ammonia and nitrite numbers come back.

 

 

What exactly gives you the right to talk me like I'm an idiot? I don't really care, but you seem to have a major stick up your...

 

Ok, so heres how I cycled. I set up the tank (yes 3 gallons, gasp he must be crazy). I used RO/DI water from my LFS. I also put in 3 pounds of pre-cured reef ready (expensive as crap) live rock, not some cheap crap with all this decaying stuff. no no no. believe it or not, I did my research online, talked for half an hour with the LFS OWNER and bought live rock with healthy population of nitrifying bacteria (whoa cool, he knows vocab). I left the tank, testing until I got some reading of ammonia, it quickly disappeared, got reading of nitrite, also lasting very short time, and then got nitrate. Boom. paydirt. cycle over. I put in the inverts. Let them settle in. Whoa everything was smooth sailing. Only after waiting a few days did I put in a singular fish. Since then (1 week) hes been doing great. inverts have been doing great until a few days ago my snail decided to go awol. Fish has been doing great until I changed the water. after he seemed happy as usual. left for a few hours, came home and he seems to be dying.

 

What type of water did you mix with the saltwater to dilute it? Was it RO/DI or was it tap water?

 

Also, your ammonia and nitrite levels might help give us a bit more insight about what may be going wrong too.

 

So I topped off with treated tap water (I know I should have used distilled or RO/DI but I didn't have any and I assumed that tap only was a problem because it could cause a potential algae bloom) This is the same tap water I use for my 40 gallon amazon biotope.

 

Ammonia is at 0 ppm

Nitrite is at 0 ppm

nitrate is at 5 ppm

pH seems low but I don't have a high range pH test

 

It just occurred to me... could it be because the pH of my tap water is lower than the pH of my tank? Is my fish experiencing some sort of pH shock? If so, is there any way to increase the pH? I have a pH up solution.

 

Id appreciate if youd be patient with me. I don't think that just because youre being helpful on 1 million other threads would give you any sort of excuse to be a dick here.

 

What should my course of action be? He is still alive, still breathing hard, still listlessly sitting on bottom, not very responsive. I changed some more water this time only using Saltwater RO/DI.

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I am very curious what the ammonia nitrite and nitrate levels are as well. Also did you match the temperature when you did water change? How many % water change was that?

 

I enjoyed this forum as a beginner and now a slightly more experienced reefer because it is very welcoming here and most people spend time to explain things instead of saying "Google." I'm sure we get frustrated when people did not do their research right before they get their feet wet and potentially harm fish. While I do believe we have to get across the message of the importance of research, I have personally been trying to do so courteously.

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burtbollinger

is this just now?

 

Ammonia is at 0 ppm

Nitrite is at 0 ppm

nitrate is at 5 ppm

my concern is the fish is in shock from a wild salinity swing.

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I am very curious what the ammonia nitrite and nitrate levels are as well. Also did you match the temperature when you did water change? How many % water change was that?

 

I enjoyed this forum as a beginner and now a slightly more experienced reefer because it is very welcoming here and most people spend time to explain things instead of saying "Google." I'm sure we get frustrated when people did not do their research right before they get their feet wet and potentially harm fish. While I do believe we have to get across the message of the importance of research, I have personally been trying to do so courteously.

 

I just posted the parameters above.

 

is this just now?

 

Ammonia is at 0 ppm

Nitrite is at 0 ppm

nitrate is at 5 ppm

do you have an alkalinity test kit?

 

This is just now, as in just now tested, as in I just tested, looked at the readings, saw that they were 0, 0, and 5, walked over to my computer and posted them.

 

No alkalinity test kit. Only pH. Please explain the difference, kindly if you would.

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Maybe the fish was sick to begin with? Do the gills look red? Have you noticed any symptoms? Was it quarantined?

 

If you came from the FW side of the hobby I'm sure you understand a lot of the fundamental knowledge that are applicable to both FW and SW. I do it think pH would play that big of an effect. The salt you added to your tap water should have buffered it enough. How long did you wait between mixing the new saltwater and putting it in the tank? Freshly made saltwater can be caustic so people usually suggest waiting an hour or two at least.

 

 

 

 

 

What exactly gives you the right to talk me like I'm an idiot? I don't really care, but you seem to have a major stick up your...

 

Ok, so heres how I cycled. I set up the tank (yes 3 gallons, gasp he must be crazy). I used RO/DI water from my LFS. I also put in 3 pounds of pre-cured reef ready (expensive as crap) live rock, not some cheap crap with all this decaying stuff. no no no. believe it or not, I did my research online, talked for half an hour with the LFS OWNER and bought live rock with healthy population of nitrifying bacteria (whoa cool, he knows vocab). I left the tank, testing until I got some reading of ammonia, it quickly disappeared, got reading of nitrite, also lasting very short time, and then got nitrate. Boom. paydirt. cycle over. I put in the inverts. Let them settle in. Whoa everything was smooth sailing. Only after waiting a few days did I put in a singular fish. Since then (1 week) hes been doing great. inverts have been doing great until a few days ago my snail decided to go awol. Fish has been doing great until I changed the water. after he seemed happy as usual. left for a few hours, came home and he seems to be dying.

 

 

So I topped off with treated tap water (I know I should have used distilled or RO/DI but I didn't have any and I assumed that tap only was a problem because it could cause a potential algae bloom) This is the same tap water I use for my 40 gallon amazon biotope.

 

Ammonia is at 0 ppm

Nitrite is at 0 ppm

nitrate is at 5 ppm

pH seems low but I don't have a high range pH test

 

It just occurred to me... could it be because the pH of my tap water is lower than the pH of my tank? Is my fish experiencing some sort of pH shock? If so, is there any way to increase the pH? I have a pH up solution.

 

Id appreciate if youd be patient with me. I don't think that just because youre being helpful on 1 million other threads would give you any sort of excuse to be a dick here.

 

What should my course of action be? He is still alive, still breathing hard, still listlessly sitting on bottom, not very responsive. I changed some more water this time only using Saltwater RO/DI.

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Maybe the fish was sick to begin with? Do the gills look red? Have you noticed any symptoms? Was it quarantined?

 

If you came from the FW side of the hobby I'm sure you understand a lot of the fundamental knowledge that are applicable to both FW and SW. I do it think pH would play that big of an effect. The salt you added to your tap water should have buffered it enough. How long did you wait between mixing the new saltwater and putting it in the tank? Freshly made saltwater can be caustic so people usually suggest waiting an hour or two at least.

 

 

I did not mix the saltwater. I have a bucket of pre mixed RO/DI saltwater from my LFS in my house. I did make sure the temp was the same before adding it though.

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GunslingerGirl

 

 

 

 

What exactly gives you the right to talk me like I'm an idiot? I don't really care, but you seem to have a major stick up your...

 

Ok, so heres how I cycled. I set up the tank (yes 3 gallons, gasp he must be crazy). I used RO/DI water from my LFS. I also put in 3 pounds of pre-cured reef ready (expensive as crap) live rock, not some cheap crap with all this decaying stuff. no no no. believe it or not, I did my research online, talked for half an hour with the LFS OWNER and bought live rock with healthy population of nitrifying bacteria (whoa cool, he knows vocab). I left the tank, testing until I got some reading of ammonia, it quickly disappeared, got reading of nitrite, also lasting very short time, and then got nitrate. Boom. paydirt. cycle over. I put in the inverts. Let them settle in. Whoa everything was smooth sailing. Only after waiting a few days did I put in a singular fish. Since then (1 week) hes been doing great. inverts have been doing great until a few days ago my snail decided to go awol. Fish has been doing great until I changed the water. after he seemed happy as usual. left for a few hours, came home and he seems to be dying.

 

 

So I topped off with treated tap water (I know I should have used distilled or RO/DI but I didn't have any and I assumed that tap only was a problem because it could cause a potential algae bloom) This is the same tap water I use for my 40 gallon amazon biotope.

 

Ammonia is at 0 ppm

Nitrite is at 0 ppm

nitrate is at 5 ppm

pH seems low but I don't have a high range pH test

 

It just occurred to me... could it be because the pH of my tap water is lower than the pH of my tank? Is my fish experiencing some sort of pH shock? If so, is there any way to increase the pH? I have a pH up solution.

 

Id appreciate if youd be patient with me. I don't think that just because youre being helpful on 1 million other threads would give you any sort of excuse to be a dick here.

 

What should my course of action be? He is still alive, still breathing hard, still listlessly sitting on bottom, not very responsive. I changed some more water this time only using Saltwater RO/DI.

 

Ok. So still seems like a short cycle IMO. I would be wary of that.

 

Tap water can contain all kinds of bad jujus. Could have been added too quickly/scalded the fish. The snail could've brought something into the tank/the fish could've been sick. There are too many variables at the moment.

 

I would get a pH test that is appropriate for saltwater. Also just making sure, the other tests are made for saltwater, correct? Because honestly I'm not 100% what of an effect using FW tests on a SW tank would have. Other than being wrong.

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I did not mix the saltwater. I have a bucket of pre mixed RO/DI saltwater from my LFS in my house. I did make sure the temp was the same before adding it though.

Definitely top off regularly. Salinity changes of a couple points can be detrimental to your inhabitants. Consistency is key.

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burtbollinger

how trustworthy is that hydrometer? you dropped from 1.025 to 1.021 or so...in an evening...that would do what's occurring.

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Ok. So still seems like a short cycle IMO. I would be wary of that.

 

Tap water can contain all kinds of bad jujus. Could have been added too quickly/scalded the fish. The snail could've brought something into the tank/the fish could've been sick. There are too many variables at the moment.

 

I would get a pH test that is appropriate for saltwater. Also just making sure, the other tests are made for saltwater, correct? Because honestly I'm not 100% what of an effect using FW tests on a SW tank would have. Other than being wrong.

 

The kits are for both salt and freshwater, in that they have separate instructions and reading charts.

 

Should I remove the snail? Its not dead yet and I have nowhere else to put it so I would have to flush it alive which I feel horrible about.

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GunslingerGirl

 

I did not mix the saltwater. I have a bucket of pre mixed RO/DI saltwater from my LFS in my house. I did make sure the temp was the same before adding it though.

Even when I buy SW from the LFS (Because I like to be lazy on occasion) I always mix it for a few hours to aerate it in the least.

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