Kalkwasser dosing - who uses a pH controller?

[ajmckay]

In contemplating the state of my corals and water change schedule I debated whether to change salts and go with something more "replenishing" but what I really want is to keep using my cheap IO salt and still get lots of coral growth while not having to buy small bottles of supplements as I have done in the past - and which I didn't seem to realize a lot of benefit from.

 

I've always been slightly put off by Kalk due to it's risks but admittedly it's probably more because I didn't spend time thinking up a way to incorporate it into my routine and avoid it's risks.

 

Some of the questions/concerns I have/had:

- ATO vs. reactor. It seems to me that using the ATO, while not as precise, would be much safer since the solution is much more diluted (you could mix it that way). I evap a decent amount each day so I feel that if I dosed through a reactor that i would dose too much.

- When to clean the ATO reservoir? I use a 10g aquarium shoved under my stand - not easy to remove and clean. It was hard to find but I found this thread which seems to say that you can just keep adding kalk to your ATO container without continually cleaning it out.

- pH swings. I'm freaked out that were something to happen with my ATO that it would cause massive amounts of kalk to be dosed. Other risks are forgetting to turn off the ATO during maintenance, as well as the time that the ATO pump is on while the sump is low temporarily while filling the display tank any time the return pump is re-started. Extended power outages could result in larger than normal top-off conditions.

- Dosing the saturated kalk, not the caustic slurry. I would have to get used to anytime I top off the ATO container that I need to prevent it from topping off for a few hours while the kalk dissolves.

 

 

The bottom line is I would like to dose kalk. I want the benefits of faster growth for my corals.

 

Do I just get the tub of Kalk from BRS and call it a day or do I add another layer of redundancy?

[Clown79]

I used Io in the past with kalk. It was fine but I myself prefer the 2 part liquid dosers.

 

I use Esv bionic 2 part alk/ca as it keeps them nicely balanced. I also use the esv magnesium.

 

I really like them and much prefer the liquid.

 

The thing is really about stability and balance. Have you determined what your corals are using or are you trying to get your levels up because if Io mixes at low numbers for you(which it did for me), then you will have fluctuations with dosing the tank and water changes.

 

I was using reef crystals, my ca was great, alk hovered between 7-8, but my mag consistently was anywhere between 1050-1140(waterchange water). I would dose all week mag, get it to 1250 only to have a big drop when i did water changes.

 

 

So the big question is, is your corals using up elements quickly or is your salt not providing the numbers you want?

[briguy350]

i use kalk on my 90g. its the cheapest way to get calcium in your tank but you have to watch your pH. i have an apex on that tank and have a BRS doser pump on a timer and if pH hits a certain level it turns off until it drops back to a certain point. i know people just add it to their top off water but i prefer to do it separate. however, im setting up a fusion 25g and if i wasnt breaking down my 90g and using my apex on the new tank. id probably just add a little kalk to my top off. i just get the tub from BRS. follow the instructions it only takes a couple of tablespoons for a 5 gallon bucket.

[gmanreefer]

I use kalk in ato abt 1 teaspoon per gallon. I monitor the PH of the tank with apex fusion. Yes, I suppose I could put some controls in place to turn off the ATO if the PH goes too high but haven't felt the need to do so.

 

Haven't had any issues with overdosing yet (knocks on wood)

[dandelion]

I have been dosing with the Seachem 2 parts solid. I've created a spreadsheet to predict the amount to dose based on past readings on days I am too lazy to measure. I may program a doser at one point to do the job for me.

[ajmckay]

I used Io in the past with kalk. It was fine but I myself prefer the 2 part liquid dosers.

 

I use Esv bionic 2 part alk/ca as it keeps them nicely balanced. I also use the esv magnesium.

 

I really like them and much prefer the liquid.

 

The thing is really about stability and balance. Have you determined what your corals are using or are you trying to get your levels up because if Io mixes at low numbers for you(which it did for me), then you will have fluctuations with dosing the tank and water changes.

 

I was using reef crystals, my ca was great, alk hovered between 7-8, but my mag consistently was anywhere between 1050-1140(waterchange water). I would dose all week mag, get it to 1250 only to have a big drop when i did water changes.

 

 

So the big question is, is your corals using up elements quickly or is your salt not providing the numbers you want?

You bring up some good points... Getting the water stable and then doing a water change and suddenly they're low again (assuming using IO). Then again this is really a problem with any type of dosing... Simply maintaining levels higher than your salt mix will inevitably result in swings during water changes unless you modify the water change beforehand or use a salt that mixes correctly.

 

Ultimately I'm trying to do both. If I leave it my calcium/MG are super low. So I want a cheaper method to get my levels up. My coral colonies aren't so huge that they consume mass amounts of calcium yet, but I want better coralline growth and I want my corals to be able to grow at their max growth rate. So it sounds like I might need to use kalk for daily maintenance and then adjust ca/alk at each water change. A few more things to buy but still a lot cheaper than buying a more expensive salt.

 

One other question - how long did a gallon of 2 part last on your 15G using IO? A quick estimate showed me going through a gallon of 2 part in about 60 days with about 55 gallons of water volume (40b + 30b less 15g of sand/rock volume). So $50 per 6 months... Kalk would be soooo much cheaper than that...

 

i use kalk on my 90g. its the cheapest way to get calcium in your tank but you have to watch your pH. i have an apex on that tank and have a BRS doser pump on a timer and if pH hits a certain level it turns off until it drops back to a certain point. i know people just add it to their top off water but i prefer to do it separate. however, im setting up a fusion 25g and if i wasnt breaking down my 90g and using my apex on the new tank. id probably just add a little kalk to my top off. i just get the tub from BRS. follow the instructions it only takes a couple of tablespoons for a 5 gallon bucket.

I looked at APEX during the black friday sales - but can't afford that... I almost pulled the trigger on a $170 deal at marinedepot for a RKL w/pH measuring capabilities (phenomenal deal!) but ultimately couldn't get myself to go through with it. I think that if I'm careful with it I should be able to use the ATO method and not worry about overdosing. Your experience is helpful though.

 

I use kalk in ato abt 1 teaspoon per gallon. I monitor the PH of the tank with apex fusion. Yes, I suppose I could put some controls in place to turn off the ATO if the PH goes too high but haven't felt the need to do so.

 

Haven't had any issues with overdosing yet (knocks on wood)

1tsp/gallon seems to be a recommended starting point according to many. So you have an APEX but you don't use it to cut off the ATO in the case where the pH gets too high? Seems like you should put that functionality to work!

 

I have been dosing with the Seachem 2 parts solid. I've created a spreadsheet to predict the amount to dose based on past readings on days I am too lazy to measure. I may program a doser at one point to do the job for me.

A 2 part setup with a dosing pump sounds like it would be pretty ideal - but again it seems like I would go through a lot of product in a year (that's Lansing swap $$!).

[dandelion]

The solids from seachem really doesn't cost a lot. Think of it as being so concentrated that it becomes a solid. One bottle will last you a long time, and it costs like 6 dollars on Amazon.

 

You bring up some good points... Getting the water stable and then doing a water change and suddenly they're low again (assuming using IO). Then again this is really a problem with any type of dosing... Simply maintaining levels higher than your salt mix will inevitably result in swings during water changes unless you modify the water change beforehand or use a salt that mixes correctly.

 

Ultimately I'm trying to do both. If I leave it my calcium/MG are super low. So I want a cheaper method to get my levels up. My coral colonies aren't so huge that they consume mass amounts of calcium yet, but I want better coralline growth and I want my corals to be able to grow at their max growth rate. So it sounds like I might need to use kalk for daily maintenance and then adjust ca/alk at each water change. A few more things to buy but still a lot cheaper than buying a more expensive salt.

 

One other question - how long did a gallon of 2 part last on your 15G using IO? A quick estimate showed me going through a gallon of 2 part in about 60 days with about 55 gallons of water volume (40b + 30b less 15g of sand/rock volume). So $50 per 6 months... Kalk would be soooo much cheaper than that...

 

I looked at APEX during the black friday sales - but can't afford that... I almost pulled the trigger on a $170 deal at marinedepot for a RKL w/pH measuring capabilities (phenomenal deal!) but ultimately couldn't get myself to go through with it. I think that if I'm careful with it I should be able to use the ATO method and not worry about overdosing. Your experience is helpful though.

 

1tsp/gallon seems to be a recommended starting point according to many. So you have an APEX but you don't use it to cut off the ATO in the case where the pH gets too high? Seems like you should put that functionality to work!

 

A 2 part setup with a dosing pump sounds like it would be pretty ideal - but again it seems like I would go through a lot of product in a year (that's Lansing swap $$!).

[ajmckay]

The solids from seachem really doesn't cost a lot. Think of it as being so concentrated that it becomes a solid. One bottle will last you a long time, and it costs like 6 dollars on Amazon.

 

Looking it up!

 

on a side note the poll responses are amazingly diverse... 1 vote for each option.

[Clown79]

That was my exact issue. My salt wasn't hitting the correct levels and inconsistent with alk and mag to boot but my tank was also using up elements as well. I was only dosing 2 times a week but my tank wasn't full.

 

I opted to change salts because if i have to dose my tank plus my watermix then in the end the cost was equivalent. Spending $35 on RSCP for a bucket that will last almost a yr was no more than buying 2 bags of reef crystals that lasted the same amount of time. Except i would have to spend more on dosers for dosing my waterchange water and for the daily use.

 

 

I found i used far more Reef Crystals to get the salinity i wanted than i use coral pro.

 

I have a lot more corals now and my tank is dosed daily but small amounts.

 

I will have to calculate how much i have used to give a definitive answer.

[dandelion]

I don't put anything in my top off so I didn't vote ?

 

Looking it up!

 

on a side note the poll responses are amazingly diverse... 1 vote for each option.

[briguy350]

i think that was me! i voted both because there isnt a right or wrong.

 

wait, no , that wasnt me i voted yes to both. because i have a ph probe. sorry

[bob115]

I would recommend getting a salt that mixes relatively consistently and pretty close to what you want to keep your tank. After that it becomes pretty easy to maintain the levels in the tank. For the redundancy, its always a good option to have a back up to help mitigate damage from equipment failure, but if you use an ATO then you're risks ultimately aren't going to be that much greater than if it dumps 10 gallons of RO water vs 10 gallons of kalk. Dead is dead. Well I guess survivability is probably better in just hyposaline vs hypo + pH and alk jump.

 

I personally use kalk right now in my ATO since I don't have a ton of demand right now and its pretty easily able to keep up. If I needed more I would look at 2 part. And if you go 2 part definitely just by the salts, its pretty dumb to be buying a fraction of the actual chemical and a jug of water.

 

For the kalk, first figure out how much Ca or Alk you use (really only need to look at one as they should be balanced across this time scale). Just let it fall on its own for a couple days to figure out how much per day.

 

At the same time measure how much volume of top off water you use per day. Easy way to do this is if you have a simple geometric container, which it sounds like you do, measure the area then measure how much the height changes over that time period, just make sure you have a tight fitting lid to limit evaporation (you'll need one once you use the kalk anyway). Then some simple calculations will yield how much volume was used in that time period.

 

Next go to a kalk contribution calculator and adjust the parameters so that you're calculating with the amount of top off water added per day. Then you can enter the volume of the tank and resevoir and then play with how much kalk is added to the resevoir to match the contribution to your tank demand.

 

The first week check tank levels a few times to make sure things look good, then check every month or so to make sure you're staying level. Or if you add a bunch of new things or you notice growth really taking off etc etc.

 

To adjust to new demand, take how far its fallen divided by how long it took to fall that amount so that its in dKH (or ppm Ca) / day then add that amount to the contribution calculator to get the new quantity of kalk to be adding.

 

Written out this sounds kind of complicated, but in practice is actually really simple and easy. Plus it keeps it pretty accurate and precise instead of just tossing in an arbitrary amount and hoping that you'll randomly match your demand.