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Hello folks. Old reader, new poster, and 1st Saltwater tank.


Volnation

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I've been reading here for about 6 months silently in the background. I recently purchased the new LED Biocube 16. First question is do I need to test the tank prior to adding everything with only tap water. Second, I'm am going to start the tank with natures ocean Live Aragonite Sand , Live rock from LFS that has cured. All the water to start with will be Live Nutri Seawater, Neo-Therm Heater 75 watt, Hydor Smart Wave Circulation Pump Controller, Hydor Koralia Nano 425 Aquarium Circulation Pump and the coralife protein skimmer. Also matrix bio media, matrix carbon, and I'm going to do away with the cartridge after the 1st water change, and replace with foam. Is there anything wrong with this combo? I know that using that sand and water combo it will decrease cycle time but I'm not going to rush things. I dont believe I want to use a stablizer. Any ideas or tips for the setup I'm starting with?

 

BTW the purpose of this tank is for softies and a few fish, and to gain the knowledge I need without breaking the bank.

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Welcome

 

The sand and rock sounds good, great start there.

Hydor powerheads are pretty decent. Not sure about the controllers. I've heard good and bad.

 

Matrix carbon is great but i wouldn't run it during cycling. I'd add it at the end.

 

I don't know much about the matrix bio media.

 

I wouldn't advise using foams, sponges, or filter pads. A better option is filter floss. You can get a big bag for $10 and under. Cut to size, replace 2-3 times a week. All the others trap detritus causing nutrient issues.

 

I'm not sure what stabilizer you are discussing.

 

I don't know much about the particular water you are planning to use but you will have more control and probably more affordable to make your own water. Having supplies on hand in case of emergency is a wise idea.

Some have had issues with the bottled water in regards to parameters, salinity etc.

 

If you don't have/can't/ or don't want to invest in an ro/di unit you could use distilled water.

 

you will need fresh water for daily top ups of evaporation. Tap water is not a safe choice. So in the end purchasing premade salt water plus water for tops ups may get costly. Far more economical to buy 20L of distilled weekly to make your waterchange water and for tops ups.

 

You will need test kits and a refractometer as well.

 

Hope this helps.

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:welcome: to N-R.com

 

My biggest concern is the bio-media. Your live rock is the biofilter; additional bio-media isn't required.

 

Clown brings up valid concerns on water. Boxed water is convenient (and should be fine for fish and soft coral), just top off with distilled water. However, it's quite pricey. Buying distilled and salt mix is cheaper; and buying your own RO/DI unit and salt is the cheapest (and best quality) of all.

 

Good luck on your new adventure into reefing.

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I've read nothing but great things on the Nutri Seawater. I only purchased enough to actually start the tank. My LFS provides ro water for .50 a gallon. I already have floss but forgot to mention it. The runoff will fall on the floss before it goes to the foam. Already have refractor and test kits. Is there anything else I need to run during the cycle? I'm uncertain of the exact time it will take to cycle with the combo I'm using due to the rock, but the sand and water are both "instant cycle".......with that being said I'm not going to rush it.


Thank to everyone for the comments so far!!!


This is a link to the only video I could find with both the water and the sand I'm using. Probably not the best example but here it is.

 


:welcome: to N-R.com

My biggest concern is the bio-media. Your live rock is the biofilter; additional bio-media isn't required.

Clown brings up valid concerns on water. Boxed water is convenient (and should be fine for fish and soft coral), just top off with distilled water. However, it's quite pricey. Buying distilled and salt mix is cheaper; and buying your own RO/DI unit and salt is the cheapest (and best quality) of all.

Good luck on your new adventure into reefing.

The Matrix bio media is so I dont have to have 16 lbs of live rock.

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I've read nothing but great things on the Nutri Seawater. I only purchased enough to actually start the tank. My LFS provides ro water for .50 a gallon.

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with using the boxed water (it's just a little pricey). Is the LFS water RO or RO/DI? If it's just RO, I'd stick with distilled instead. If it's RO/DI, get a TDS meter and test it prior to using each batch. FWIW, making your own RO/DI water costs about a nickle a gallon (that pays for the unit fairly quickly).

 

The Matrix bio media is so I dont have to have 16 lbs of live rock.

For a typical bio-load, you can get away with substantially less than 1lb per gallon. But your call. Just keep it clean.

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Like I said, there's nothing wrong with using the boxed water (it's just a little pricey). Is the LFS water RO or RO/DI? If it's just RO, I'd stick with distilled instead. If it's RO/DI, get a TDS meter and test it prior to using each batch. FWIW, making your own RO/DI water costs about a nickle a gallon (that pays for the unit fairly quickly).

 

For a typical bio-load, you can get away with substantially less than 1lb per gallon. But your call. Just keep it clean.

They have both. Set up the tank last night. According to the test the water is basically ready to go, but I gonna wait a few weeks just to be safe. Ph was a hair off, but nothing concerning.

 

From what I've studied, making my own RODI cost about .27 a gallon. 1 gallon of rodi and 4 gallons of waste. So 5 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of rodi. How did you come about the nickel per gallon.

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From what I've studied, making my own RODI cost about .27 a gallon. 1 gallon of rodi and 4 gallons of waste. So 5 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of rodi. How did you come about the nickel per gallon.

Our resistant expert, AZDesertRat, has outlined it a number of times: http://www.nano-reef.com/index.php?app=googlecse#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=Azdesertrat+nickel+per+gallon

 

Assuming a water rate of about $5 per thousand gallons, and a 4:1 waste ratio, you get 200 gallons of filtered water for about $5 (that's about 2.5 cents per gallon). Add in the replacement cost of filters and resins (another 2.5 cents per gallon), and you get an approximate cost of $0.05 per gallon.

 

So assume you are paying $0.50 per gallon at the LFS (ignoring the cost of gas and your time), you save $0.45 per gallon (for superior water). Now let's assume that a good RO/DI unit costs $150 (it's actually less, and already comes with the filters). The unit pays for itself in approximately 300 gallons.

 

Even with a small tank, you come out ahead in a couple of years. After which, you will be saving about $0.45 per gallon.

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It takes more than 1 day for ammonia to show up. Ammonia needs to actually process, which than converts to nitrite, which converts to nitrate.

 

Took 3 days before i saw ammonia.

I used liverock i had placed in a bucket with sw and powerhead for 3 weeks prior to use and livesand. Still had a 10day cycle.

Water really doesn't do that much, thats why you can do huge water changes and not have cycles or any disruption to a tank. The major bacteria and biological filteration is within the rocks.

 

I'm not sure what the sand and water being instant cycle is or means.

 

Liverock even cured may have die off from transer(unless transferred in buckets of water) the die off can lead to a spike in cycle.

 

We are just advising that in the long run making your own water has more pros thsn cons.

 

1. You have full control of all parameters

 

2. You need to buy distilled for top up, then buy the bottled salt water for waterchange, the combo together long term is more costly. Buying a bucket a salt that lasts a yr + and weekly distilled is cheaper.

 

3. Having your own supplies for water making makes it far easier on you. If you need to do emergency water change(it happens)you can buy distilled at 24hr grocery stores, hsve it on hand at all times but the bottled Sw you may not.

 

multiple weekly changes when u encounter a nutrient issue(it happens), it will gr really costly ising multiple bottles of the Sw

 

or when you can't get supply of the bottled water. Thats happened to ppl leaving them in search of a new method.

 

These are things to consider.

 

Don't chase ph. It fluctuates throughout the day.

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It takes more than 1 day for ammonia to show up. Ammonia needs to actually process, which than converts to nitrite, which converts to nitrate.

 

Took 3 days before i saw ammonia.

I used liverock i had placed in a bucket with sw and powerhead for 3 weeks prior to use and livesand. Still had a 10day cycle.

Water really doesn't do that much, thats why you can do huge water changes and not have cycles or any disruption to a tank. The major bacteria and biological filteration is within the rocks.

 

I'm not sure what the sand and water being instant cycle is or means.

 

Liverock even cured may have die off from transer(unless transferred in buckets of water) the die off can lead to a spike in cycle.

 

We are just advising that in the long run making your own water has more pros thsn cons.

 

1. You have full control of all parameters

 

2. You need to buy distilled for top up, then buy the bottled salt water for waterchange, the combo together long term is more costly. Buying a bucket a salt that lasts a yr + and weekly distilled is cheaper.

 

3. Having your own supplies for water making makes it far easier on you. If you need to do emergency water change(it happens)you can buy distilled at 24hr grocery stores, hsve it on hand at all times but the bottled Sw you may not.

 

multiple weekly changes when u encounter a nutrient issue(it happens), it will gr really costly ising multiple bottles of the Sw

 

or when you can't get supply of the bottled water. Thats happened to ppl leaving them in search of a new method.

 

These are things to consider.

 

Don't chase ph. It fluctuates throughout the day.

This is probably a noob question... but just yesterday my LFS told me emphatically to NEVER use distilled water. Why are they saying that? Also I will be making my own saltwater. I only purchased the bottled saltwater to start the tank. I also forgot to check the salinity until this morning and according to my refractometer it was at 1.30

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Our resistant expert, AZDesertRat, has outlined it a number of times: http://www.nano-reef.com/index.php?app=googlecse#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=Azdesertrat+nickel+per+gallon

 

Assuming a water rate of about $5 per thousand gallons, and a 4:1 waste ratio, you get 200 gallons of filtered water for about $5 (that's about 2.5 cents per gallon). Add in the replacement cost of filters and resins (another 2.5 cents per gallon), and you get an approximate cost of $0.05 per gallon.

 

So assume you are paying $0.50 per gallon at the LFS (ignoring the cost of gas and your time), you save $0.45 per gallon (for superior water). Now let's assume that a good RO/DI unit costs $150 (it's actually less, and already comes with the filters). The unit pays for itself in approximately 300 gallons.

 

Even with a small tank, you come out ahead in a couple of years. After which, you will be saving about $0.45 per gallon.

 

you forget the TIME and VEHICLE COSTS to go to LFS for water... (more saving by making your own). in the beginning i used water runs for an excuse to run to the LFS. that phase is long over.

This is probably a noob question... but just yesterday my LFS told me emphatically to NEVER use distilled water. Why are they saying that? Also I will be making my own saltwater. I only purchased the bottled saltwater to start the tank. I also forgot to check the salinity until this morning and according to my refractometer it was at 1.30

 

http://www.waterandmorehub.com/deionized-water-vs-distilled-water/

 

"RO/DI water - 0 TDS

Distilled water - 0 TDS

Your choice biggrin.gif"

 

also sometimes contaminants in the processing could be present... like ones that dont harm people but harm inverts, bacteria, fish??? but again trace <1 TDS.

 

so just opinionated LFS people... no harm.

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This is probably a noob question... but just yesterday my LFS told me emphatically to NEVER use distilled water. Why are they saying that? Also I will be making my own saltwater. I only purchased the bottled saltwater to start the tank. I also forgot to check the salinity until this morning and according to my refractometer it was at 1.30

I think they advised against using distilled water because historically, the devices used to distill water contained copper.

 

I'm not sure whether this is true anymore, however I think quite a few individuals use distilled water without issues.

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I think they advised against using distilled water because historically, the devices used to distill water contained copper.

 

I'm not sure whether this is true anymore, however I think quite a few individuals use distilled water without issues.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's why they said that. However, it's basically not used anymore, as it isn't cost effective. Besides the cost of copper, ultra pure water slowly eats away at it. Ceramic and polymer materials last longer and are more cost effective.

 

People used to say to buy your distilled water from Walmart, because people had tested it and it was negative for traces of copper. Now, I'm not aware of any consumer available distilled water not being safe to use. However, this concern, besides being about $0.80 a gallon and having to drive somewhere to get it, makes a RO/DI system an even a better choice.

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:welcome: to N-R.com

My biggest concern is the bio-media. Your live rock is the biofilter; additional bio-media isn't required.

Clown brings up valid concerns on water. Boxed water is convenient (and should be fine for fish and soft coral), just top off with distilled water. However, it's quite pricey. Buying distilled and salt mix is cheaper; and buying your own RO/DI unit and salt is the cheapest (and best quality) of all.

Good luck on your new adventure into reefing.

I have a biocube 14 and I ditched the bioballs I do use stock filter pad,and floss,and chemipure
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Thats exactly the reason why they said not to use it. Its the old rumor still going around.

 

Its not cost effective to use copper piping anymore. Copper is expensive and replacing it gets expensive as well.

 

A lot of ppl use distilled if they can't get an ro/di. I myself buy mine at the grocery store as I'm already there and i can't do an ro/di system. If i could i would put the money into the system but distilled works fine.

 

Lfs also prefers you spending the money on either their water or the bottled they sell

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So I started my tank on Tuesday and by Saturday the tank had completely cycled. I waited until today and added some blue leg crabs and a few snails. Saturday as well I had some cyano show up. I believe I ghost fed it too much. So I went ahead and added Chemipure Elite to help reduce phosphates if any. Gonna leave the lights off for a while to help kill the cyano. Any other suggestions? I have chemiclean on the way, and I'm vacuuming. Should I add matrix Carbon and purigen?

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Saturday as well I had some cyano show up. I believe I ghost fed it too much.

IMO, any ghost feeding is too much.

 

So I went ahead and added Chemipure Elite to help reduce phosphates if any.

CPE has very little GFO. It does more to help maintain low levels than it does to reducing levels. Phosguard and activated carbon would be more effective. In addition to phosphate, organics contribute to cyano.

 

Should I add matrix Carbon and purigen?

That will help a little with the dissolved organics in the water. Keep up on your maintenance (use a turkey baster to blow detritus off the rocks and siphon detritus of the top of the sand).

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I agree, ghost feeding leads to nutrient issues. If theres no one to eat the food it just sits and rots in the tank leading to things like cyano.

 

To irradicate cyano, the best is proper maintenance. Chemicals are last resort. Its better to fix the cause and prevent.

 

I would keep lights off. Use turkey baster on rocks to remove detritus, syphon the cyano out, replace filter floss frequently.

 

Test nitrates and phosphates(salifert kit).

Phosguard helps with phosphates, its better to use small amounts frequently than larger amounts infrequently.

 

Increasing flow helps with cyano too.

 

I used chemipure blue and found it didn't do much of anything but it cost more. Its cheaper to buy a container of phosguard and a good carbon like matrix and use media bags. You control the amounts you need to use and change it out as needed.

 

You only have cuc so very minimal food is required at this point.

 

You're on the right track.

Oh yes, the hitchiker, its a bristle star.

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I completed my 1st water change in the tank. Actually did about 30 percent. I left the lights off for about 36 hours since i caught it early. I purchased 5 turbo asteria snails and 2 mexican turbos and they handled the rest. Counting phospates and ever other test i could find, the tank is flawless, maybe 8.3 on ph but hey...............

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Counting phospates and ever other test i could find, the tank is flawless

Which phosphate kit do you use? I ask because a commonly used phosphate test (API) is a high range test, and goes up in 0.25ppm increments (while the target value is only 0.03ppm). So you only see a positive result after the phosphate level is about 10 times higher than it should be.
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Ya, Api phosphate generally gets 0 results.

 

Salifert is a low range kit.

 

Also if you have algae issues, your results will be misleading as the algae absorbs these nutrients.

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