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Potters Angelfish back in QT... Thoughts on how to proceed welcome.


ajmckay

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So I acquired this handsome fella the other day... He's large, vividly colored, decently full bodied, healthy, and the guy had it for 3 weeks before I got it. I've had dwarf angels in the past and they're pretty amazing so I'm excited.

 

Acclimation: For some reason it was at 1.014 S.G. so I put it in QT and raised that gradually to 1.025 over about 4 days, while treating with Prazi-pro. Before moving to my display tank I performed a pH & temp adjusted FW + methylene blue dip for about 3 minutes. I used a round tupperware with holes drilled in the bottom to transfer due to it's gill barbs, which could get caught in a net. I'm a 3+ week QT guy so it was a little unnerving to move him (pretty sure it's male) over after only 4 days in QT but in this case he needs tons of LR to forage on and the rock I had in my QT was pretty sterile looking.

 

This is the best shot I could get - Day 2 and he's coming out more which IME is a good sign for this somewhat shy species. I did notice what I'm hoping is just a growth and not a parasite in his right side pectoral fin, near the base. It's oval and a creme color. After the FW dip I sat down with a magnifying glass and some tweezers to see if I could scrape/pick it off but it was very difficult to even tell which side of the fin it was on. I scraped it a little bit on both sides but it didn't come off. I accidentally dislodged a scale when it flopped around so I decided to just let it be and observe carefully for now. If I notice it's gotten bigger, moves, or causes any other issue I'll re-evaluate.

 

No editing to these pics.

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The shrimp! The new addition has also revitalized interest in my cleaner shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis). While stopping by to take some pictures I noticed that the shrimp was cleaning the fish!!! Never before have I witnessed this phenomenon in my own tank... I gave up on my shrimp's "cleaner" instincts long ago. This was the only picture I snagged - sorry it was under a piece of rock so it's dark. I watched for about 20 minutes during which time the fish would come by to get "cleaned" several times. It was particularly cool to watch the fish flare out his gills for the shrimp, which seemed to dig right in and pick around! Pretty cool.

 

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Finally - watch this video. I heard this same lecture earlier this year and it rocks. I'm so glad BRS made it into a video!

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Marc.The.Shark

That's sweet buddy! I've been debating a Flame myself, but still on the fence as to the nipping at coral aspect. I also have never seen a cleaner at work in any of my tanks over the years. I wonder if it's just certain species that they are tied to & with nano tanks we don't have some of the larger fish? Dunno, never researched it. Awesome tho!!

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I had a cleaner that used to set up shop on a ledge and occasionally a wrasse would come by for a cleaning. I think they did it more out of instinct than necessity but it was pretty cool to watch.

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Nice, what's it eating?

Well so far it's only been grazing. Fortunately I have an abundance of the stringy stuff ! I'll be putting in a nori clip today and if it doesn't start partaking in my current food preparation (blend of frozen mysis, cyclopeez, hikari mega marine, and omega one reef formula) I'll nab some live brine. I've also heard these guys will typically take to a clam on the half shell though I've never had to resort to that.

 

That's sweet buddy! I've been debating a Flame myself, but still on the fence as to the nipping at coral aspect. I also have never seen a cleaner at work in any of my tanks over the years. I wonder if it's just certain species that they are tied to & with nano tanks we don't have some of the larger fish? Dunno, never researched it. Awesome tho!!

I hear you on the nipping... I've had pretty good luck with them but definitely not perfect. At this point unless he starts going after my E. Divisa I'll probably let the nibbling pass. So far he's taken to nibbling on a chalice a little :/

 

It's possible that the nano fish aren't as likely to be cleaned - the only time's I've seen it have been with large angels. Either way it was awesome to watch.

 

Thanks for the comments everyone - hoping to get a better shot today maybe.

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Finally - watch this video. I heard this same lecture earlier this year and it rocks. I'm so glad BRS made it into a video!

 

Thank you so much for posting this!

I realize now how poorly I've been treating my poor new fishes.

Some great ideas in there. :)

 

Thanks again.

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So I stopped by the Asian market today and got a few shortneck clams. My dottyback went after it aggressively! I also grabbed some dried kelp - thinking "oh wow! that's really natural!" Well I'm not so sure it's suitable for fish... It's tought like leather even after soaking and even cooking. So I think I'll be going back to get some regular nori seaweed. http://www.japanesecooking101.com/kombu-dried-kelp/

 

nice. i was debating between potters or flame..ended up with a flame. both very nice fish.

Probably a good call. Make sure you give it greens otherwise it may expire prematurely.

 

My favorite dwarf angel and will be the first "big" fish introduced into my 100g hope he works out for you. The colors he has are awesome!

I'll be honest I've never had much interest in these (too $$) but after finding a nice healthy specimen at a good price and the fact that they're collected in Hawaii (they ban some of the harmful capture methods) it was a good choice I think.

 

Thank you so much for posting this!
I realize now how poorly I've been treating my poor new fishes.
Some great ideas in there. :)

Thanks again.

Great - glad you liked it! Truly some good information in that piece on the supply chain that fish have to go through before they make it to our tanks. Spread the word.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update on the fish... After literally tearing apart my display tank the Potters angel is back in QT after a 3 minute FW dip with 5mL methylene blue to 1/2g of water...

 

Two reasons why I did this (likely related):

1 - It's not eating. I sometimes see it pick at a rock but even that seems like it's been a few days since I've seen. It completely ignores food when I add it to the tank. I've had nori in there constantly (the other fish seem to like it!) and I've also tried kelp (bought it on accident), clam on the half shell (again other fish seem to like it), as well as the frozen mix I listed above. And NLS pellets. I picked up a S.F. Bay multi pack this evening and I'll be trying that tomorrow (has their "marine cuisine" mix, an algae blend, squid, and brine shrimp. I'll try bits of each to entice it to eat. Will also probably pick up some live brine.

 

2 - I think it still has some parasites. The thing on the right fin is still there, and in addition there is a spot right in the middle of the body that appears to be some sort of parasite as it seems to change appearance based on the angle you look at it. Imagine something wedged under a scale. It also seems to be getting larger. Next there is a vivid white spot right on the edge of it's dorsal fin. At first I was thinking lymphocystis but it's spending a lot of time on one side of the tank going around the glass in a sort of circular motion and "flashing" against my algae clip. It frequently goes over to the cleaner shrimp for "cleanings" but apparently the cleaner shrimp doesn't feel obliged lately. It's movements are often twitchy like what I would expect to see with a parasite and it often seems restless.

 

 

Soooo... I feel like this was my only option at this point. Either I let the fish stay and "hope" that it starts eating something or I take some action and try to cure whatever ails it - hoping that removing the irritant will restore a normal feeding pattern. Also as far as I can tell the FW dip (or the chasing around the tank) knocked off whatever was on it's side (wedged under a scale).

 

My options are as follows:

1- Treat with prazipro again - but longer. Note the first time I only treated for 4 days (the recommended is 5-7). I'm comfortable treating with prazi in my display though so I would feel a bit silly for putting the fish through this ordeal. Still the symptoms fit flukes and/or trematodes...

2- Treat with cupramine. If only because it's the most powerful anti-parasitic I have. I don't see consistent white specks so if it's crypto (ich) then it's a mild case or they're dark enough I can't see them well on this fish. The treatment lasts a bit longer though. If what's on the fin is actually a parasite (I've actually seen a similar parasite attached to a bluegill) I'm guessing that copper would do the trick.

 

Any advice or suggestions are welcome - I'm hoping to make a decision in the morning as to which treatment to pursue but I'm leaning towards copper.

 

Will post a video of the fish soon.

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Do you have a pic of the parasite up close? I had a mandarin come in once with something similar - turned out to be a blood-sucking isopod which I managed to get off the fish after some delicate trial-and-error removal.

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Do you have a pic of the parasite up close? I had a mandarin come in once with something similar - turned out to be a blood-sucking isopod which I managed to get off the fish after some delicate trial-and-error removal.

Thanks for the reply Snow P. So that was my initial thought last week. Before I introduced it into my display tank I did a FW dip and sat down with a magnifying glass and some tweezers and tried to pick it off but the fish was pretty squirmy - not to mention those barbs got me once or twice. I couldn't get it off - but I might not have been applying enough force. If I have to try that again I'll use the back of a knife and I'll use more of a scraping motion.

 

In other news I just decided to start treatment with Cupramine. It's what I got (it's within my reach - Sublime) and IME gives me the best chance of ridding whatever parasites it has. Suggestions still welcome but not sure I can use any other treatments in conjunction with Cupramine.

 

I'm tenacious when it comes to this stuff... I had a gecko years ago that I nursed back to health after an infection of some sort using ground up food in a syringe. Also spent most of a month trying to cure BJS on a nice frogspawn. I'm hoping that taking action gets me through this as well. I want nothing more than to have this fish in my tank for the next several years. Well - that and if this expensive fish dies my wife will only let me buy damsels from now on LOL...

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Thanks for the reply Snow P. So that was my initial thought last week. Before I introduced it into my display tank I did a FW dip and sat down with a magnifying glass and some tweezers and tried to pick it off but the fish was pretty squirmy - not to mention those barbs got me once or twice. I couldn't get it off - but I might not have been applying enough force. If I have to try that again I'll use the back of a knife and I'll use more of a scraping motion.

 

In other news I just decided to start treatment with Cupramine. It's what I got (it's within my reach - Sublime) and IME gives me the best chance of ridding whatever parasites it has. Suggestions still welcome but not sure I can use any other treatments in conjunction with Cupramine.

 

I'm tenacious when it comes to this stuff... I had a gecko years ago that I nursed back to health after an infection of some sort using ground up food in a syringe. Also spent most of a month trying to cure BJS on a nice frogspawn. I'm hoping that taking action gets me through this as well. I want nothing more than to have this fish in my tank for the next several years. Well - that and if this expensive fish dies my wife will only let me buy damsels from now on LOL...

 

Be very careful if you're using tweezers - if you tweeze too much, it could damage the fish. One way to get the fish to stop squirming so much is to place the fish sideways (with the parasite part facing upwards) on a moist piece of toilet paper. You'll have about fifteen or so seconds this way before your fish stresses over the lack of air. I've used this method successfully in removing debri/plant matter tangled on my freshwater fire eel several times.

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Be very careful if you're using tweezers - if you tweeze too much, it could damage the fish. One way to get the fish to stop squirming so much is to place the fish sideways (with the parasite part facing upwards) on a moist piece of toilet paper. You'll have about fifteen or so seconds this way before your fish stresses over the lack of air. I've used this method successfully in removing debri/plant matter tangled on my freshwater fire eel several times.

Thanks - good idea on using moist towel or something - I might get stabbed less. I would probably use something a bit sturdier than toilet paper - as long as it's not "grabby". One of the other things is I had trouble even deciding which side of the fin it's on... It might be on the inside...

 

Checked on the fish this morning - still alive and looks like it's doing well. Keeping the lights off for now and I've got a ton of PVC tunnels and stuff in there. I've got some water ready for a 5g water change tonight (after I attempt feeding the new variety pack).

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Beautiful fish!

 

My shrimps have always cleaned my fish but my clown gets pretty peeved at the shrimp when he goes near her or her frogspawn so she never gets cleaned. Shrimp cleans me instead.lol.

 

I've heard of fesding peas to angels, they apparently love it but they need peeling first

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Beautiful fish!

 

My shrimps have always cleaned my fish but my clown gets pretty peeved at the shrimp when he goes near her or her frogspawn so she never gets cleaned. Shrimp cleans me instead.lol.

 

I've heard of fesding peas to angels, they apparently love it but they need peeling first

Peas eh? I suppose it's worth a try. I agree the potter's angel is a really beautiful fish! I can't wait to get it back into my tank so I can take some more pictures!!! When it "hovers" and all it's fins are extended this fish is sooooooo nice.

 

The fish is doing fine tonight - actually seems to be pretty relaxed even when I'm near the tank. The 2 suspect parasites are definitely not there anymore.

 

I fed S.F. Bay's "Emerald Entree" and I'm still not sure if it's eating or not... It must be even though I can't catch it in the act. I've spent about an hour observing so far tonight (some of that playing games on my phone) and it seems that there are fewer chunks of it in the corner. I'm dropping it in the same corner and it appears that at least a portion of the food is gone. There's too low flow to blow it around or break it up.

 

Doing a 5G water change tonight or tomorrow morning to keep water quality up.

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  • 1 month later...

So time for an update... I'll be honest I had pretty much given up hope on this fish shortly after my last post because this fish did not do well in QT and didn't tolerate the Cupramine treatment either. So after about 2 days of treatment I put it back in the DT where I figured it would probably die soon. It was acting sluggish and would just sit there on the sand and sort of wobble back and forth. A day or so later it found a dark spot behind a rock. Fortunately a spot where I could still observe.

 

Fast forward a month to 12/26 and somehow it was still alive before left to visit family for 4 days. Keep in mind that for a month I had not once seen this fish move from it's spot behind the rock. In the almost 2 months I'd had it I only saw it pick at a rock about 3 or 4 times and I have NEVER seen it eat anything I've fed to the tank! I fully expected it to die during my 4 days of being away.

 

I came back and it was still chillin' behind it's rock.

 

Here's were it gets interesting. New Years day I decide to do a big tank cleaning. I'm talking scrubbing all the rocks, stirring up the sand, big water changes, etc... The tank looked like the water of the Mississippi for a few hours! I didn't mess with the rock he was hiding behind though... After all the chaos he was out and swimming around! Again the next day he was swimming around!!

 

So now it's been like 4 or 5 days since the cleaning and this guy is out all the time now. Overall acting pretty normal. Color is good, it shifts it's eyes to various things in the tank, and it doesn't look particularly sickly either. I put the nori clip out again and I sat and observed for about 30 minutes but it completely ignored the clip. I come home from work and something has eaten most of the nori? I'm pretty sure it's not my clown, magenta dottyback, or cardinal... And it's too high for the CUC to reach.

 

Now for my dilemma. Again thinking this guy wasn't going to make it I decided that maybe if I got a juvenile it would fare better than the adult I got. Before the sudden turnaround of the Potters I happened to find a very nice Rusty Angel about 1.5" long and they have a reputation of being much better eaters - indeed this particular specimen was happy to accept frozen preparations. So I purchased it figuring that after 3 weeks in QT the Potters would be gone. Now I'm not really sure what to do now that the Potters has somehow come back? I'm still not particularly hopeful because I haven't seen it eat but obviously it's eating something in the tank!! Note that I don't think I gave up on the Potters too soon. I spent hours and hours researching, trying various foods, and treating this fish over the initial 3 weeks or so. I took the most appropriate actions I could think of and I have experience with parasites/diseases and acclimating new fish to captivity... At some point I decided that I needed to just let the fish be so I tried not to stress it out.

 

Anyways - I'll give another update in a week. The Rusty will be in QT for another week or however long it needs to be. Maybe I'll put the rusty in my display sump? I'm concerned about having 2 dwarf angels in a 40B.

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Very strange behaviour.

 

Have you tried mysis or the peas?

 

Its obviously eating something, theres no way its still alive after a mnth of not eating.

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Did it not eat the live brine shrimp?

Nope hasn't gone after live brine...

 

Certainly a lesson in not giving up! Looking forwrd to update.

Thx for the encouragement.

 

Very strange behaviour.

 

Have you tried mysis or the peas?

 

Its obviously eating something, theres no way its still alive after a mnth of not eating.

Here's a summary of all the things I've tried feeding - usually gave each attempt about 2 days. An asterisk (*) indicates something I feed routinely.

- *Frozen Mysis

- *Hikari Mega marine blend

- *Cyclopeeze

- SF bay multi pack (*emerald entrée for herbivores, marine cuisine which is similar to the hikari mega marine, and brine shrimp. It also comes with squid but I haven't tried that yet)

- *NLS pellets small and medium sizes

- Live brine shrimp

- Sushi nori on a clip

- Dried kelp on a clip (nothing ate this)

- Clams on the half shell

- Chopped raw shrimp

 

I suppose I'll try peas tonight. I think I had the intention of trying it but I either forgot or didn't have any on hand.

Any other ideas?

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