Jump to content
Pod Your Reef

Calling All Acan and SPS Lovers- Help Needed!


RIP Sebastian

Recommended Posts

RIP Sebastian

Hi everyone,

 

I have always had issues with SPS and LPS other than Euphyllia (RTN, STN, etc). I have taken off the parts that no longer had tissue, but to no avail. I am not sure why. I know my light is adequate, but not too much. Everything else, including my anemones, are thriving. Here are my parameters:

 

 

pH:7.8-8.0

Ammonia: 0 ppm

Nitrate: 2-5 ppm

Calcium: 450 ppm

Alkalinity: 13.4 dKH

Magnesium: 1600 ppm

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks,

 

Nick

 

 

Link to comment

Need a bit more detail regarding both the SPS and the LPS. In regards to the SPS I'm not very familiar but I can help with the LPS. Pictures would be great. Acans (assuming acan lords) should be nice and puffy and eat readily. They also do not like having a ton of light so if they are recessed into their skeletons then I would recommend moving them away from the light. With euphylia you also have to watch out for brown jelly disease which is pretty much always fatal unless you are able to amputate the impacted area. I actually had a two-headed torch and it came with brown jelly disease on one head and I had to completely cut it off. If you try to be stingy with it you may not cut it all off and it will continue to kill the coral. The only other thing would be that the alkalinity sounds a bit high but as long as that's stable it shouldn't cause too many issues. Personally I keep mine around 10.5 but I've also heard others keep it higher. Mg is also a bit high but I don't see how that would cause so many issues. For reference, I keep my Mg around 1360.

Link to comment
RIP Sebastian

Need a bit more detail regarding both the SPS and the LPS. In regards to the SPS I'm not very familiar but I can help with the LPS. Pictures would be great. Acans (assuming acan lords) should be nice and puffy and eat readily. They also do not like having a ton of light so if they are recessed into their skeletons then I would recommend moving them away from the light. With euphylia you also have to watch out for brown jelly disease which is pretty much always fatal unless you are able to amputate the impacted area. I actually had a two-headed torch and it came with brown jelly disease on one head and I had to completely cut it off. If you try to be stingy with it you may not cut it all off and it will continue to kill the coral. The only other thing would be that the alkalinity sounds a bit high but as long as that's stable it shouldn't cause too many issues. Personally I keep mine around 10.5 but I've also heard others keep it higher. Mg is also a bit high but I don't see how that would cause so many issues. For reference, I keep my Mg around 1360.

 

I am well aware of BJS and my Euphs have been thriving for many, many moths in my tank. I don't have any pictures of my acans because they're all dead :(. They were really fluffy for a while and all of a sudden, they'd be melted away in a week.

 

Nick

Link to comment
SouthFlorida_Tron

Holy mega levels! ?

 

13alk is pretty high impact. Drop that down to 10, while bringing the calcium down to 400 and magnesium to 1350-1400.

What kind of lighting?

Link to comment
reeferbrownies

My alk spikes often to 13 or higher and my acan and euphyllias deal with it.

Do you feed the acans? Thats one of the reasons why many of them dont make it

 

Also with LPS a Iodine dip always help heal.

Link to comment
RIP Sebastian

Holy mega levels!

 

13alk is pretty high impact. Drop that down to 10, while bringing the calcium down to 400 and magnesium to 1350-1400.

What kind of lighting?

 

Yeah, I know they're high... damn red sea black bucket. I'm planning on switching to the blue bucket soon. I have my tank lit with a Nanobox Quad.

 

My alk spikes often to 13 or higher and my acan and euphyllias deal with it.

Do you feed the acans? Thats one of the reasons why many of them dont make it

 

Also with LPS a Iodine dip always help heal.

 

 

At first, I didn't and I had this really fluffy pink and purple one for months. All of a sudden, it was gone within two weeks. Added another... gone within a month. Thanks for the tip about the iodine. I'll try that with my Lobo who is beginning to go.

Link to comment
RIP Sebastian

As others have stated, you need to do something about your alk. It's too high.

 

Do I mix up salt, dilute it, and raise it back to proper salinity, or should I switch to the blue bucket ASAP?

Link to comment
SouthFlorida_Tron

salts can be main culprits in repeated parameter issues....

 

As when you do a water change to correct a swing, the salt is actually whats elevating the issue!

 

 

 

Im a "normal to less" parameter value believer... the whole "hey my salt is 200000000% levels higher than yours" is asking for trouble...

 

SPS and certain LPS are sensitive to these parameters, especially alkalinity. Acceptable values are less stressful on these animals.

Link to comment

You need to get to the root of the problem rather than doing the fancy stuff around the edges.

 

First off, stop using toy salts and get one with a consistent KH or do smaller more frequent changes to keep KH more steady, around 7 or 8 would be my recommendation.

 

If you want to keep SPS your Alk must be rock solid. The mistake I see over and over and over again is someone doing a water change and THEN testing Alk, getting a good reading, and thinking things are OK. Alk should be X before AND after your water change. For SPS, a swing from 7 to 7.5 might hurt but not kill the corals while a swing from 8 to 8.5 could kill all of them. The further you get away from natural seawater params the steadier you need to be, in my experience.

 

My 40 gallon has had swings from 6.5 to 10 which killed all my SPS but the euphillias and acans where unharmed. If KH is the issue here then perhaps your super high KH and KH swings is what the problem is.

 

 

Don't dilute salt, salinity is important. Let it fall on it's own as the tank uses up Alk. Test daily with a good kit, I like Salifert, and once in a good range dose or do water changes to hold it steady. You can use these toy salts in place of dosing but you will want to do smaller more frequent changes.

Link to comment

1. You can mix salts to obtain a more typical alkalinity. 50/50 RS Black/Blue would probably give you around 10 dKh. Your lack of success with SPS is likely due to the inconsistency of your alk level...and it going so high doesn't help.

 

2. I have had Acans and Blastos (both Mussids) thrive for months, even years, then die off in a week or three. Twice in my current nano, and each time it happened as soon as I introduced a less-than-healthy new Mussid specimen. The last time this happened all other corals remained unaffected, so apparently there is some pathogen that specifically affects this group of LPS corals (and possibly other LPS that I don't have in my tank). After I let the tank stay Mussid free for 2-3 months, I then introduced a single healthy Blasto polyp back into the system and it's been doing well for about a year now. Best advice is only introduce 100% healthy specimens (no receding tissue areas) into your system.

Link to comment
RIP Sebastian

You need to get to the root of the problem rather than doing the fancy stuff around the edges.

 

First off, stop using toy salts and get one with a consistent KH or do smaller more frequent changes to keep KH more steady, around 7 or 8 would be my recommendation.

 

If you want to keep SPS your Alk must be rock solid. The mistake I see over and over and over again is someone doing a water change and THEN testing Alk, getting a good reading, and thinking things are OK. Alk should be X before AND after your water change. For SPS, a swing from 7 to 7.5 might hurt but not kill the corals while a swing from 8 to 8.5 could kill all of them. The further you get away from natural seawater params the steadier you need to be, in my experience.

 

My 40 gallon has had swings from 6.5 to 10 which killed all my SPS but the euphillias and acans where unharmed. If KH is the issue here then perhaps your super high KH and KH swings is what the problem is.

 

 

Don't dilute salt, salinity is important. Let it fall on it's own as the tank uses up Alk. Test daily with a good kit, I like Salifert, and once in a good range dose or do water changes to hold it steady. You can use these toy salts in place of dosing but you will want to do smaller more frequent changes.

 

Thanks so much for you reply. I love your tanks. I do test daily using a Red Sea kit and I enter the values into a line graph. I know you have an incredible successful SPS tank, so what do you use?

 

1. You can mix salts to obtain a more typical alkalinity. 50/50 RS Black/Blue would probably give you around 10 dKh. Your lack of success with SPS is likely due to the inconsistency of you alk level...and it going so high doesn't help.

 

2. I have had Acans and Blastos (both Mussids) thrive for months, even years, then die off in a week or three. Twice in my current nano, and each time it happened as soon as I introduced a less-than-healthy new Mussid specimen. The last time this happened all other corals remained unaffected, so apparently there is some pathogen that specifically affects this group of LPS corals (and possibly other LPS that I don't have in my tank). After I let the tank stay Mussid free for 2-3 months, I then introduced a single healthy Blasto polyp back into the system and it's been doing well for about a year now. Best advice is only introduce 100% healthy specimens (no receding tissue areas) into your system.

 

When I purchased my Acans, they were 100% healthy and fluffy. Can one bad egg ruin all of them?

 

Thanks a bunch, everyone!

 

 

Nick

Link to comment

 

Thanks so much for you reply. I love your tanks. I do test daily using a Red Sea kit and I enter the values into a line graph. I know you have an incredible successful SPS tank, so what do you use?

 

 

When I purchased my Acans, they were 100% healthy and fluffy. Can one bad egg ruin all of them?

 

Thanks a bunch, everyone!

 

 

Nick

 

Thanks. I can't answer the pest or disease question because I have bigger tanks and never experienced it. My only Acan issue right now is my favorite mushrooms moving in and slowly killing it from the edge.

 

I rarely do water changes anymore but that's due to the age of the tanks more than anything. I like AquaForest Reef salt because the KH is fairly low and stable and it comes in a convenient size I can still carry and not have to pay out the wazoo for buying smaller containers. I also really really like Red Sea Blue Bucket, but the container size and pricing for the smaller containers killed me.

 

As Tron hinted at above, we could preach all day but if you understand the basics, the risks, focus on stability, and do things slowly success will come. It's still just a guess why the Acans died, at least in my opinion. Why can't I keep a Red Planet alive but Tron can grow one on the back wall? :)

Link to comment
RIP Sebastian

 

Thanks. I can't answer the pest or disease question because I have bigger tanks and never experienced it. My only Acan issue right now is my favorite mushrooms moving in and slowly killing it from the edge.

 

I rarely do water changes anymore but that's due to the age of the tanks more than anything. I like AquaForest Reef salt because the KH is fairly low and stable and it comes in a convenient size I can still carry and not have to pay out the wazoo for buying smaller containers. I also really really like Red Sea Blue Bucket, but the container size and pricing for the smaller containers killed me.

 

As Tron hinted at above, we could preach all day but if you understand the basics, the risks, focus on stability, and do things slowly success will come. It's still just a guess why the Acans died, at least in my opinion. Why can't I keep a Red Planet alive but Tron can grow one on the back wall? :)

 

Sorry to hear about your rogue shrooms. Do you dose anything?

 

Nick

Link to comment

I had similar problems when my tank made the switchover from "new tank syndrome" (ie not mature enough to have coral-stable parameters) to "old tank syndrome" (wild alk swings due to excessive coralline algae deposits combined with using sky-high base parameter "reefer" salt mix to avoid having to dose). "Sparing myself dosing" wound up costing me a lot of grief - most tiny tanks need some form of supplementation to keep things in balance. For some reason it never spent an appreciable time in the "mature & easy-to-grow-anything tank syndrome" territory. ;)

 

IMO, get a handle on your alkalinity... ever since I lowered mine to around 8-9 (complete with switching to a salt that reliably mixed up to that range and dosing/laying off the pipette if need be to KEEP it there) it's been much easier to keep euphyllias & blastomussa alive and well.

 

Then there's just some tanks that can't sustain a particular kind of coral at all, and that can change over time. Mine USED to practically be a florida ricordea farm, but since the last time 6-8 months ago that I thinned the herd to trade they've almost all withered/melted away.

 

Point is, your mileage may vary... but best of luck in sorting it out.

Link to comment
RIP Sebastian

I had similar problems when my tank made the switchover from "new tank syndrome" (ie not mature enough to have coral-stable parameters) to "old tank syndrome" (wild alk swings due to excessive coralline algae deposits combined with using sky-high base parameter "reefer" salt mix to avoid having to dose). "Sparing myself dosing" wound up costing me a lot of grief - most tiny tanks need some form of supplementation to keep things in balance. For some reason it never spent an appreciable time in the "mature & easy-to-grow-anything tank syndrome" territory. ;)

 

IMO, get a handle on your alkalinity... ever since I lowered mine to around 8-9 (complete with switching to a salt that reliably mixed up to that range and dosing/laying off the pipette if need be to KEEP it there) it's been much easier to keep euphyllias & blastomussa alive and well.

 

Then there's just some tanks that can't sustain a particular kind of coral at all, and that can change over time. Mine USED to practically be a florida ricordea farm, but since the last time 6-8 months ago that I thinned the herd to trade they've almost all withered/melted away.

 

Point is, your mileage may vary... but best of luck in sorting it out.

 

Thanks for your well wishes. How long did it take for you to get a handle on your alk?

 

Nick

Link to comment

So say about two weeks of daily observation (tested on a Hanna alk tester) with very minimal dosing/water changes to establish a baseline of carbonate use. Then another couple of weeks monitoring as I dosed up to the level I wanted & selected a salt mix that mixed close to that (8.5 to 9 for a margin of error). Then a one month transition to that more reasonable level & said mix - originally the tank was hanging ~7 dKH & I was running a salt that mixed to ~14!). In my case the replacement was Halcyon which hits around 1200Mg/400Ca/8dKh and I dose it up to about 1400Mg/420Ca/8.5dKH.

 

Still looking for something locally available that mixes unaided to the above levels. But I've got the chemicals and math already done for my aquavitro products/current salt mix. And a nicely growing 6-8 month old hammer & blastomussa garden that at long last the clown goby shows no interest in pecking to death. ;)

Link to comment
RIP Sebastian

So say about two weeks of daily observation (tested on a Hanna alk tester) with very minimal dosing/water changes to establish a baseline of carbonate use. Then another couple of weeks monitoring as I dosed up to the level I wanted & selected a salt mix that mixed close to that (8.5 to 9 for a margin of error). Then a one month transition to that more reasonable level & said mix - originally the tank was hanging ~7 dKH & I was running a salt that mixed to ~14!). In my case the replacement was Halcyon which hits around 1200Mg/400Ca/8dKh and I dose it up to about 1400Mg/420Ca/8.5dKH.

 

Still looking for something locally available that mixes unaided to the above levels. But I've got the chemicals and math already done for my aquavitro products/current salt mix. And a nicely growing 6-8 month old hammer & blastomussa garden that at long last the clown goby shows no interest in pecking to death. ;)

 

Which salt do you use? Aquavitro? I'm guessing an ALK Hannah Checker is worth the investment now.....

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recommended Discussions

×
×
  • Create New...