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Coral Vue Hydros

What to do?


Vwcrackerjack

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Vwcrackerjack

I've been in and out of the hobby for about 15 years now. Always had such failures with larger tanks. My 5 gallon nano was amazing but then sprung a leak. I was so busy with work I couldn't deal with it and gave it to another member on manhattan reefs. I started a 50 cube last fall and it started out so great. Corals were lovin it and fish. My fish are great and act like nothing's wrong now but my coral haven't grown a bit. My GSP isn't even stuck to the rock it's been on for months. My Ricordia is opening nice and one mushroom but my other coral are all still frag sized after a year and they look like crap. My torch looks like it's melting away. My water tests came up with cal high at 500 my alk at 11-12 and my mag at 1800-2000. I turned off my doser and did 3 water changes over the last week. My sand keeps getting like a brownish algae growing on it like the tank is cycling again and I'll suck it off and it just keeps coming back by the next day. I have a sand bed 1-3" varying around the tank. I was out of town and had a company come in to do maintenance on it for me and they sucked the sand bed so I'm wondering if that leeched anything into the water but that still doesn't explain why my corals had zero growth in a whole year. I'm so frustrated at this point. I've literally spent thousands on this tank to get it setup and it sucks. I'm debating just getting a small nano again but I feel like it shouldn't matter. Water is water small or large. Anyway I guess the maintenance wasn't good the last few months and my wife was using spring water to top it off but my parameters aren't bad unless my tests kits are off. I wish someone could actually come to my house who knows what they're doing and help me out or at least help me find the problems so I can deal with them and get this thing back on track. I've seen guys using tap water from Staten Island who's tanks look amazing and mine it's looks like a box of rocks with two fish in it. If anyone local thinks they could give me a hand I'd really appreciate it.

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Wow - you know there's this thing called an enter key? It lets you create paragraphs which help separate ideas or the parts of a story...

 

Anyways - I know the feeling and while I don't live close to you here's my advice:

 

- Doesn't sound like you have such a complicated system that you need a dosing system. Unless you can rattle off right now how much CA/ALK/MG your tank consumes per day it's probably not helping. How long have you been dosing?

 

- Rocks out, scrub them, then rinse. You could treat with peroxide also if you want. I've got a rock I'm going to do that with tomorrow actually. Scrub, peroxide, rinse.

 

- You might have too much sand. I think shallower 1" sand beds are best for not trapping nutrients. Cleaning the sand isn't a bad idea, but I agree with you if you don't do it regularly it could cause issues if you suddenly do it one day.

 

- Make sure you're using good water. RO/DI is what you should be using in all honesty. I'm not sure what spring water is but it could have added nutrients. Also I wouldn't trust it when someone with an amazing tanks says they use tap water... At the very least though should there exist an amazing tank that uses tap water they either have some method to deal with it, or they are just meticulous enough to pull it off. Either way just because it works for them doesn't mean it will work for you.

 

- Do you have a skimmer?

- Are you overstocked?

- Describe your CUC

- What lighting do you have and how long is it on?

- How is the flow in the tank?

- Do you mix your own saltwater? How often are you doing water changes?

 

Ultimately it's about maintaining a balance in the tank. Algae can survive in crazy conditions so you either need a way to outcompete it or to keep on top of it through your maintenance routine, which may include regularly scrubbing the rocks. Hopefully this gets you thinking about some things you could work on to improve the look of the tank and the coral growth!

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Vwcrackerjack

Wow - you know there's this thing called an enter key? It lets you create paragraphs which help separate ideas or the parts of a story...

 

Anyways - I know the feeling and while I don't live close to you here's my advice:

 

- Doesn't sound like you have such a complicated system that you need a dosing system. Unless you can rattle off right now how much CA/ALK/MG your tank consumes per day it's probably not helping. How long have you been dosing?

 

- Rocks out, scrub them, then rinse. You could treat with peroxide also if you want. I've got a rock I'm going to do that with tomorrow actually. Scrub, peroxide, rinse.

 

- You might have too much sand. I think shallower 1" sand beds are best for not trapping nutrients. Cleaning the sand isn't a bad idea, but I agree with you if you don't do it regularly it could cause issues if you suddenly do it one day.

 

- Make sure you're using good water. RO/DI is what you should be using in all honesty. I'm not sure what spring water is but it could have added nutrients. Also I wouldn't trust it when someone with an amazing tanks says they use tap water... At the very least though should there exist an amazing tank that uses tap water they either have some method to deal with it, or they are just meticulous enough to pull it off. Either way just because it works for them doesn't mean it will work for you.

 

- Do you have a skimmer?

- Are you overstocked?

- Describe your CUC

- What lighting do you have and how long is it on?

- How is the flow in the tank?

- Do you mix your own saltwater? How often are you doing water changes?

 

Ultimately it's about maintaining a balance in the tank. Algae can survive in crazy conditions so you either need a way to outcompete it or to keep on top of it through your maintenance routine, which may include regularly scrubbing the rocks. Hopefully this gets you thinking about some things you could work on to improve the look of the tank and the coral growth!

Wow! First thing you do is insult someone before you help them?

A little background on myself... Grew up dirt ass poor with a single mom because my dad was too busy getting drunk and high and stay home.

 

Couldn't really focus on school as a kid because i had to tend to our house and 5 siblings, and heating our house with wood which I had to split so we didn't freeze to death.

 

Had to fish for my dinners and make my way to the food pantries in order to make sure we ate so we didn't starve.

 

I turned 15 and my Mom found a new drunk "father" for us and since he didn't like us she started dumping off her children in the city one by one in order to live her fantasy life with her new man. So I was left on the street and homeless at age 15 at which point I had to lie my age and get whatever jobs I could get so I didn't have to become a ward of the state and live in foster homes.

 

Currently I run my own construction business installing kitchen flooring for major restaurants around the entire east coast and am doing very well for myself, however I do not have the time to re attend school so my English comp may not be up to par. Sorry if this bothered you. I did my best on this here. Probably not proper English by your terms however I hope it's easier for you to understand that I put spaces.

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Vwcrackerjack

What kind of sand did you use when the tank was set up?

I used Carib sea live sand.

I run my lights for 12 hours at 100% blue and 50% white on a maxspec razor 420

I only used a doser because I am away from home so much.

I also only have 2 small fish. One PJ Cardinal and one small clown.

2 anemones (they eat misis and small pieces of shrimp). They don't ever move around. They found a spot and seem to be happy there. The clown kind of lives in both of them.

Skimmer is a reef octopus rated for 150g

I have an eshopps sump with a fuge and miracle mud. Lots of plant life and pods

Also has an auto top off. Lit with a fuge light alternate to tank lights

I started out with the premixed salt water in boxes but have switched back to instant ocean and mix my own with RO water.

Oh crap.... the other guy asked me all these questions. I apologize my bad English again.

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So I'm glad you made something out of your life - It sounds like quite an accomplishment.

 

It really is important to organize your posts though - call it forum etiquette if you want but it's more about getting quality responses. People don't like to read huge chunks of text so you're more likely to get good responses if you lay out the information clearly in the first post. The posts that are like 3 sentences and a picture get tons of replies vs. stuff that people have to sit down and read/take notes on. So try to keep posts well organized and to the point. And include pictures whenever possible.

 

- I would take the lights back a bit as 12 hours seems like a lot unless you have a decent ramp up/down built into that time. Not familiar with the Razor lights but check around and see what % others are using. 100% & 50% seem pretty high for a quality LED light but that is somewhat dependent on how deep your tank is.

- Understand on the doser, but do you need it? Normally a weekly water change of around 5-15% will replenish all the necessary elements in a typical mixed reef. Having too much of anything in your water can be just as bad as too little and cause inhospitable growing conditions.

- Is your skimmer tuned up and pulling skimmate?

 

Based on your responses I would simply try to get back to a stable maintenance routine. Weekly 10% water changes, make sure you blow off rocks and stir things up a bit when you do them as well. I would also evaluate your flow and increase it if there seems to be dead spots and decrease it if your torch is being blown around too much (or just move the coral) as most euphyllia don't like flow that's too strong.

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Hey VWCrackerjack

 

Could you posts a few pictures so we can see what's going on with the tank?

 

The parameters seem too high for a tank with little corals, mine is SPS dominant and I run around 7-8dkh in alk as an example. I would turn off the dosers.

 

A big skimmer with little bioload and also a fuge with plants and miracle mud sounds like available nutrients are bound up or skimmed out leaving little for the corals. This might explain why they are alive but not growing.

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Photos would be good!

 

 

Following in line with that Kat's suggesting:

 

Did you have fish in your previous 5 gallon? It sounds like this new tank is understocked in comparison, and isn't getting as much nutrient import - with the skimmer, the water volume, the fuge, etc, things like phosphate and nitrate may be low.

 

When running low nutrients, high alk/cal/mag levels can result in corals receding or not growing, bleaching, etc etc. I have mid-range nutrients (nitrates below 5, phosphates around .3-.6ppm), and keep alk around 8 or 9dKH. Once in a while it creeps up to 10 and I turn off the doser while feeding to compensate for the high alk.

 

You'll find that your salt mixes to certain levels, and it's best to match nutrients up to that - you don't want water changes to cause swings in alkalinity or calcium levels.

 

The stuff on the sandbed doesn't necessarily mean that you're cycling again. If it's diatoms, you likely just have silicates in the water and the diatoms are taking advantage of that. They'll burn through what's available and die out, assuming you don't add any more (spring water, tap water, etc). If it's cyano or another issue, you may just have a bacterial imbalance. Consider picking up a bacterial supplement to outcompete whatever's there, and keep up with vacuuming the sandbed, basting the rocks, etc etc.

 

Hope that helps! :)

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I agree with prior posters -

 

Dosing needs to be carefully balanced if

  1. You're not that heavily stocked (mass, type, and growth rate of corals, not the number of corals)
  2. You don't do significant % water changes weekly (like less than 20% / week, as dosing will inevitably cause drift)
  3. You're using a salt mix that doesn't mix up to your target levels by default (water changes will cause swings)
  4. You alter your lighting schedule and/or temperature, which will affect ion uptake

Magnesium likely doesn't need dosing at all based on your stock.

Alk/Ca could be dosed, but it sounds like you have the quantity set too high.

 

Which IO are you using? Basic IO, or IORC? Reef Crystals may be too high in Alk for your targeted levels, especially if you're dosing.

 

 

Info that I'm thinking could help readers diagnose issues and root causes (and I know you've mentioned some, but listing all details in one post will help):

  • System specifics like total water volume, skimmer and media types and sizes, average daily temperature,
  • Stocking specifics (and photos as Kat mentioned)
  • Husbandry specifics like WC schedule and quantity, method (vacuuming sand, basting rocks, etc.) and specific type of salt used
  • dosing programming - timing and quantity of each
  • lighting schedule
  • testing results (not just Alk/Ca/Mag, but also nitrates, phosphates, pH, temp)
  • feeding regimen

Sounds like things are not dying, just not growing. This is fixable.

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Vwcrackerjack

Thanks for all the replies.

 

I had a do see setup because I travel for work. I was running 30mil per day. I lowered it down to 5 originally but decided to turn it off completely until I get things under control.

 

My skimmer pulls out some dark skimate and is running great. It definitely does its job.

 

I am running some good flow but that's a tricky area. Some tanks I see seem way too high and flourish while others won't with the same flow. My tank I've tried all sorts of things with flow and it doesn't seem to change much aside from my clown fish swimming for dear life and sand being blown around so I have it at a happy medium.

 

My tank is 24" deep and the light hangs about 6-8" off the surface. I was running it at 80% white and 100% blue which I just changed two days ago and corals did respond. My rics and shroom opened up more and my tree started showing its polyps again. Others are still the same. Frog spawn is still sucked in and drooping.

 

I feed the corals a mix of reef roids and coral frenzy mixed with a bit of marine snow. They used to love it. Now idk. My bubble coral sucks it in. But it still won't open up all the way like it used too.

I have tried multiple times to post pics however they are always too big and I have no idea how to compress them. I'd love to show you guys the tank. It is beautiful and clean it just doesn't grow anything at all except my fish and one shrimp. Those guys are always hungry and happy.

 

My next question would be, how long after I do water changes should I start to see some type of improvement?

I've done 3. One 20% and a few days later a 10% then another few days 10%. I am planning on another 10% tonight.

Should I be doing larger WC's? Like 15 gallons or so? I know I can't just rush rush rush but I feel like after cleaning all filters and sand and WC's etc I should be seeing something by now.

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Can you upload the images to some website like imgur.com and use their links to post? There's an image icon that lets you add a picture by URL while replying.

 

The benefit of water changes will depend on the new water's parameters, and how quickly or slowly it's correcting the issue. If your salt also mixes to 500ppm cal, 12dKH alk, etc, then all you'd be doing is diluting nutrients while keeping elements too high. On the other hand, a 10% water change will change parameters very slowly (good for avoiding swings while replacing trace elements), and wouldn't dilute toxins very much.

 

If you're running carbon (removes heavy metals, dissolved organics, coral warfare toxins, etc), I might even calm down with the water changes and let parameters drop on their own. That's assuming I know my newly mixed saltwater's parameters are too high - and in the meantime, I'd look into getting a salt with the correct balance.

 

If the problem is that your water was too clean, doing more cleaning won't fix the issue. See if you can use mysis for the frogspawn, mushrooms, bubble coral, etc - they may appreciate the meatier foods since they're easier to catch without spending energy to slime over.

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Do you have a CUC? if not could totally help with the brown algae

 

how much are you feeding the small fish and what are you feeding?

 

with the skimmer being so beastly, does it allow you to throttle it back a little bit?

 

lastly, how high off the water is your light? LEDS could be burning the corals which causes them to not want to grow. I have a reefbreeder light and its 10 inch off the water. Blues max out at 70, whites at 50.

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Try using the link below to post pics. It's a simple widget that doesn't require registration and gives you the link to easily copy and paste into your forum posts.

 

TinyPic Upload

 

Regarding how clean your water is, do you have test kits for nitrates and phosphates? Those results would shed a lot of light on most algae issues as well as if you might be overfeeding. I've seen some corals do noticeably better when I stopped feeding them.

 

Now that your doser is offline, I'd suggest testing daily around the same time of day through the weekend so you can at least get a good idea of the rate of consumption. Alk will be most important to track the trend here. (During testing, hold off on water changes to get the most meaningful measurements)

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Vwcrackerjack

Try using the link below to post pics. It's a simple widget that doesn't require registration and gives you the link to easily copy and paste into your forum posts.

 

TinyPic Upload

 

Regarding how clean your water is, do you have test kits for nitrates and phosphates? Those results would shed a lot of light on most algae issues as well as if you might be overfeeding. I've seen some corals do noticeably better when I stopped feeding them.

 

Now that your doser is offline, I'd suggest testing daily around the same time of day through the weekend so you can at least get a good idea of the rate of consumption. Alk will be most important to track the trend here. (During testing, hold off on water changes to get the most meaningful measurements)

I tried the up loads. It wouldn't work. I will get something to work as soon as I can.

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Just out of curiosity,what kind of water are you using ? I would also say test for phosphates,ph nitrates and ect do a water change,wait a day or 2 and test again then wait a few days and test again and build a base line of params and try and target your approach based on your test results... ?

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Vwcrackerjack

Just out of curiosity,what kind of water are you using ? I would also say test for phosphates,ph nitrates and ect do a water change,wait a day or 2 and test again then wait a few days and test again and build a base line of params and try and target your approach based on your test results... ?

I use RO water from LFS with instant ocean recently. Prior to that I used nutrisea box water. I am going to sit down and do tests again tomorrow night and see what my water is looking like now. However for the last couple months I've been on the road and it was being topped off with bottled spring water. I haven't really seen any major algae issues though. I have a five loaded with culpera only since the sand bed was cleaned I've seen the brown stuff. My nitrates are very low. Phosphate could be bad. I have to check it tomorrow.

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Nice tank - post pictures on your first post going forward it would save a lot of typing...

 

You definitely do not have too much light - what you do with the photo period is up to you...

 

As for the refugium - IMO that's the source of your issues. It looks to be densely packed - maybe with a variety of caulerpa? The macroalgae is consuming a disproportionate amount of available nutrients. The fact that you have no CUC supports this as well IME...

 

I actually experienced this same phenomenon earlier this year - I started up a large refugium (because I wanted one) and it took off. Most of my soft corals stopped growing and a few zoas dwindled to nothing. I also had a large skimmer too.

 

My solution was to keep macros down to a more manageable size and actually ended up increasing the bio-load to find a happy medium. I was feeding like crazy and doing everything to keep the nutrients up. Eventually I figured I could save myself some effort so I tried taking the skimmer off line - which proved to be a huge mistake because massive algae took over almost immediately (it's all about balance & not making too many sudden changes). I'm still in the process of getting back to a happy medium but what's helping most is simply giving the tank the time it needs - and keeping the refugium in check... Mostly focusing on regular testing and water changes as well as observing the corals often.

 

Don't expect immediate results - this type of issue will take time to fix. Also water changes, while not a bad thing, probably aren't going to solve things on their own anyways. Don't go pulling out all your macros at once either. Manage it down over several weeks. A large increase in available nutrients will fuel rapid nuisance algae growth. It will take a little longer for the corals to find a new zooxanthellae balance (where applicable) and re-acclimate to a higher level of available nutrients.

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Vwcrackerjack

I never even thought of that. Always thought having all the plant life in there was a good thing. I have been thinking about taking a handful out lately though to make more room. I just didn't want to kill a bunch of pods. Lol. Maybe I'll take a small amount out and bring it to the fish store or give it to someone who needs some amphipods.

 

Thank you for that observation. ?

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Vwcrackerjack

I took out some of my culpera.

 

I decided to run a test on water.

 

Nitrate comes up between 0-2 on my Red Sea kit

 

Phosphate comes up zero with salifert.

I never used salifert before. Is the powdered regent supposed to be like small crystals?

My other kit has it as more of a fine powder. Not sure if this is accurate or not.

 

I will re test with Red Sea again.

On a positive note. My corals are showing signs of polyps again. However the bubble is the same about half way open and the frog spawn is literally on deaths door. Horrible.

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You're nitrates are fine.

 

Yes, the phos powder is more like crystals.

Try putting in some of your substrate sand in the container when testing phos.

I read a whole article about how many will get 0 readings with just water but once you add sand in you will see phos levels.

 

I never get phos readings with water only. Crystal clear 0 but when I add sand, 0.03

The bubble coral may bounce back. Give it time.

 

I had a brain torn apart by peppermint shrimp and I put it into a cycling tank until i could catch the shrimp. Not only did it live through the cycle but it healed quickly and has grown back. It took a while but it didn't die.

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Vwcrackerjack

So a huge new update!

About 4 months ago or so my main Brand new reef octopus DC pump froze up on me. I came home to find my tank low on water and then noticed the sump totally filled to almost to the skimmer cup and skimmer was going crazy.

In a panic I took out the pump and tried to repair it. No good, so I grabbed a backup pump which had a metal hose clamp holding a hose on it and threw it in there and hooked it up to the tank. I never even realized it was there. Today I decided to really try and get the old pump going as it was dead quiet and more powerful plus it was controllable. I got it running and took out the mag when I saw the rusted up hose clamp. Holy crap man. I'm guessing all the metal in the water wasn't very good.

 

Here's what I'm thinking.. the recent influx of water changes is why my other parameters seem good. The metal is why bubble hasn't fully opened and why my other corals just withered away and died. What I don't get is that the ricordia and mushroom seem like they could care less however maybe that's why they haven't really grown and quite possibly why the GSP hasn't even attached itself to the rock out of shear misery to be there.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Also.... what can or should i do now? Massive water change, or do more smaller progressive ones until I see my corals happy again?

 

Also to make things even better.....as soon as I put the reef octopus back it and turned it on after having it running in a bucket for two days...died on me. Lol so I put the mag back in without the clamp for now.

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