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Embarrassed, Need Advice


Astinus

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Long Post..beware.

 

1st off, my lack of due diligence most likely bit me in the ass. Lesson learned! Better Husbandry and

Stay on top of Testing! There, I said it! I know my issue is the cause of this post, and also my fault, but I need help and gentle advice. (Please)

 

Back Story (History). As most of u folks know, I Bought an AquaMaxx HOB-1 Protein Skimmer on the

30th of Sept. It Arrived around the 5th of Oct. I was pretty excited, but, I waited til daylight to assemble and hang it in the back chamber of the tank.

The day it arrived I hadn't topped off the tank as I usually do. Salinity was creeping up and tank volume was getting low. I Had no Premixed SW from my LFS. So, I used "TopFin" Liquid Saltwater Concentrate.

(Error made here, used Tap water with Prime) I measured salinity of my SW. 1.025, another error made, failed to measure tank Salinity. I filled the Skimmer and primed the skimmer's pump.

The following morning, 2 Yellow Tail Blue Damsels and the Dottyback found Dead. RBTA also toast.

Pulled out the carnage. Measured salinity...1.030!! WTF?

Got salinity back in control, note I have not tested my Parameters..again, my error. It took 5 days of gentle water removal and top off with fresh RO/DI. Because I had used the Concentrated salt water, I had not dosed my routine of CA/KH (Every other day). Brought sample of water to LFS.

Salinity = 1.025

Nitrate = below 5 (API Tests)

Cal =560

KH = 11

So, thinking things were good, got 2 Blue Damsels and an Algae Blenny. Total fish = 5

2= 4 stripe Damsels, 2= Blue Damsels and the blenny.

 

Just this Morning, found the 2 Blue Damsels dead! Salinity is good! 1.026

They were fine last night...swimming and doing what damsels do...chase. No sign of ich or disease.

 

Corals, Some of the Zoas are closed...not to many though. Just noting.

GSP has not been opened and out for about 10 days now and looks like I may lose the small carpet.

Bubble Coral was in decline long before this.

Lost the Octospawn that we just got.

All other corals look okay.

 

As I said above, I don't trust my own testing when it come to CA/KH. Here are my Parameters.

I tested before a water change.

 

Sal = 1.025

Nitrates = 0-5

Phosphate = 1-2 (Might be a tad higher)

CA = Off scale High

KH = Off scale High.

MG (Nyos), 1st time ever to test this and 1st time using test.

But the MG was also off scale High...by my testing.

 

I am in no way going to add any fish for quite awhile if ever.

I may add some coral, but gotta get this tank under control.

I Don't know what to do...

I did just do a 5 Gal water change.

I am waiting for cloudy/stirred up water to clear.

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I'd figure out a way to do larger water changes until you get your parameters back in line. Once that's under control, think about replacing anything that perished.

 

Have you tested ammonia/nitrite since things passed away?

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Sorry to hear about the fish losses and tank issues. Just hang in there.

 

First of all the salinity is probably not the cause of the fish deaths - they may have been weak or sick fish.

I ran 40ppt salinity for almost a week or more and did not lose any fish - corals did react negatively but my salinity was a large swing from the normal.

 

Second, a water change doesn't usually cloud up the water so I'm wondering if you stirred the sand a lot? If so it could be releasing too much detritus which can cause a spike in ammonia, also to be expected given the fish deaths. In addition, the tank is new I think so trapped air which can be toxic is not the case probably - it didn't smell like rotten eggs in there did it?

 

Other than that I can only think of a contaminant. Maybe an air freshener, or a cleaner used too close to the tank, a plug in?

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I'd figure out a way to do larger water changes until you get your parameters back in line. Once that's under control, think about replacing anything that perished.

 

Have you tested ammonia/nitrite since things passed away?

No, have not tested for those. Haven't got the test. I do have Prime. I will dose tank with this to bind any Ammonia that may be present.

 

 

Sorry to hear about the fish losses and tank issues. Just hang in there.

 

First of all the salinity is probably not the cause of the fish deaths - they may have been weak or sick fish.

I ran 40ppt salinity for almost a week or more and did not lose any fish - corals did react negatively but my salinity was a large swing from the normal.

 

Second, a water change doesn't usually cloud up the water so I'm wondering if you stirred the sand a lot? If so it could be releasing too much detritus which can cause a spike in ammonia, also to be expected given the fish deaths. In addition, the tank is new I think so trapped air which can be toxic is not the case probably - it didn't smell like rotten eggs in there did it?

 

Other than that I can only think of a contaminant. Maybe an air freshener, or a cleaner used too close to the tank, a plug in?

No, no rotten eggs.

Tank cleared quick, it was just the stuff I normally blow off the rocks with a Turkey Baster.

I do use Windex on the outside glass. I spray the Windex onto a paper towel about 10 feet away from tank.

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No, have not tested for those. Haven't got the test. I do have Prime. I will dose tank with this to bind any Ammonia that may be present.

 

 

 

I do use Windex on the outside glass. I spray the Windex onto a paper towel about 10 feet away from tank.

 

 

 

I'd try to pick up a basic ammonia test (anything non-zero is bad so you don't necessarily have to have low range detection). Using prime would be good for now to help everything still living in the tank (even microorganisms in the rocks), but try to get a good idea of parameters soon, or before adding anything else :)

 

On the windex: Have you tried just using vinegar? That way the worst case scenario when you touch the outside of the tank and then the inside of the tank is that bacteria have a bit more food :P Otherwise, try refreshing carbon while doing water changes so that toxins can get filtered out quickly?

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Ahhh Yes. I failed to mention that I cleaned out my filter media and changed out the Carbon 2 days ago.

I do, however, need to replace my phosGuard.

Good info to know regarding Vinegar. TY

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Don't feel embarrassed. Things happen in life and sometimes we can't do what we normally would.

I haven't been diligent on testing and my waterchanges have gone down from 1x a week to every other week.

I hadn't tested for a mnth but lost nothing.

 

I don't advocate not doing due diligence but we also cut ourselves some slack when things go on in life....so don't beat yourself up.

 

Testing is important but i don't think it's necessarily the cause of your issues. How your parameters got out of whack is the question. What changed to cause the increase? We normally see decreases in ca, alk, and mag with increase in nutrients when ppl slack on testing. You said you weren't dosing so what caused the off the chart numbers?

 

I don't think stirring your sand bed is an issue if you regularly do this or vacuum. If you don't, it possibly could have spiked some parameters. Definitely test ammonia.

 

I use windex on my glass with no issue, just don't spray it anywhere near the tank, I've also used air freshners and plug ins just not right near the tank. Ppl have had their homes fumigated with no issue to the tank.

 

Any kids around that may have dumped something in the tank?

 

You said you used tap water for your water change. I'm leaning towards something in the tap water effecting the tank. Tap can be high in ca and i'm sure alk isn't perfect in it either. Not to mention the slew of chemicals used to keep pipes clean.

 

The sg wasn't that high, heard worse.

 

Any chance of stray voltage?

 

 

I'd do a few good waterchanges, test the new water mixed to ensure the params are where you want them. Put in new floss and carbon as well.

 

Don't use your tap water. Try to get ro/di, distilled, even ro is better than tap.

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High salinity at those levels in general shouldn't kill your inhabitants on a short term basis - but if there's a big swing that's bad news... Since your salinity was already up not sure how much further it would have gone due to the SW addition...

 

Either way the solution to your issues - at least IMO - are related to establishing a better routine around testing, dosing, and how you keep extra water on-hand. I personally prefer complete control over my water so rather than rely on an LFS I always have my own salt mix handy.

 

I would resist the urge for now to try and get things back together as quickly as possible. Agree that you need to get everything back on track but it shouldn't happen overnight as you really just want stable parameters.

 

How long has your CA/KH been off the chart? Are you dosing right? Sounds like there's an opportunity to re-calc your usage.

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Don't feel embarrassed. Things happen in life and sometimes we can't do what we normally would.

I haven't been diligent on testing and my waterchanges have gone down from 1x a week to every other week.

I hadn't tested for a mnth but lost nothing.

 

I don't advocate not doing due diligence but we also cut ourselves some slack when things go on in life....so don't beat yourself up.

 

Testing is important but i don't think it's necessarily the cause of your issues. How your parameters got out of whack is the question. What changed to cause the increase? We normally see decreases in ca, alk, and mag with increase in nutrients when ppl slack on testing. You said you weren't dosing so what caused the off the chart numbers?

 

I don't think stirring your sand bed is an issue if you regularly do this or vacuum. If you don't, it possibly could have spiked some parameters. Definitely test ammonia.

 

I use windex on my glass with no issue, just don't spray it anywhere near the tank, I've also used air freshners and plug ins just not right near the tank. Ppl have had their homes fumigated with no issue to the tank.

 

Any kids around that may have dumped something in the tank?

 

You said you used tap water for your water change. I'm leaning towards something in the tap water effecting the tank. Tap can be high in ca and i'm sure alk isn't perfect in it either. Not to mention the slew of chemicals used to keep pipes clean.

 

The sg wasn't that high, heard worse.

 

Any chance of stray voltage?

 

 

I'd do a few good waterchanges, test the new water mixed to ensure the params are where you want them. Put in new floss and carbon as well.

 

Don't use your tap water. Try to get ro/di, distilled, even ro is better than tap.

The added thing was the new Protein skimmer and my adding sw to replenish what I used. I normally use and have on hand

LFS premixed RO/DI SW. I also use RO/DI from same source.

As I sit here, I am thinking back...maybe a week before the new skimmer, I changed what I was using for phosphates.

I was using Phos Zorb and now using Phos Guard. Don't know if there is a correlation with high CA/KH.

I usually dose with Reef Fusion 1 & 2 (CA/KH) every other day. But I skipped a few days since I used the Concentrated SW.

No children in house, grown up. No air fresheners. When I do what I should do, a water change, I do a "Light" vacuum of the sand bed. Surface only. Since I do not have and will get an Ammonia and Nitreite test kit, I did dose tank with Prime for now.

TBH, I really do hate having to use Tap water...I much prefer my LFS for the RO/DI.

I did buy a Probe for stray current. When my hand(s) have to be in tank, I never noticed that "Tingle"

 

High salinity at those levels in general shouldn't kill your inhabitants on a short term basis - but if there's a big swing that's bad news... Since your salinity was already up not sure how much further it would have gone due to the SW addition...

 

Either way the solution to your issues - at least IMO - are related to establishing a better routine around testing, dosing, and how you keep extra water on-hand. I personally prefer complete control over my water so rather than rely on an LFS I always have my own salt mix handy.

 

I would resist the urge for now to try and get things back together as quickly as possible. Agree that you need to get everything back on track but it shouldn't happen overnight as you really just want stable parameters.

 

How long has your CA/KH been off the chart? Are you dosing right? Sounds like there's an opportunity to re-calc your usage.

I keep my Water in clean food grade 5 gal buckets. I have 4 of them, but, I usually use only 2 at a time. 1 is FW (RO/DI)

Other is SW (RO/DI). As for testing, I just don't trust my readings. I do trust my Nitrate and Phosphate reading much better than

CA/KH and I just got a MG Test. Nyos is the MG test kit.

I certainly will not dose anything for a bit.

I dose NOPOX for Nitrates (When they were exceptionally high *Above 60)

I have since really cut back my feeding. Got Nitrates down, prolly to low. Between 0 and 5.

I am thinking, and correct me if wrong, but nitrates should I try and get them back to about 10 or 20?

As far as CA/KH it seems that it skyrocketed overnight.

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You get your water premixed from LFS. Have you considered making your own water?? IMO, this should be your top priority. Forget the dosing, the Phosguard, nopox, skimmer, etc. The most important thing to get right is your water. That's the source of everything, good and bad. There's so much you can't test so how can you be sure your issue is bot stemming from premixed water? A RODI unit is $100, best investment ever.

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You get your water premixed from LFS. Have you considered making your own water?? IMO, this should be your top priority. Forget the dosing, the Phosguard, nopox, skimmer, etc. The most important thing to get right is your water. That's the source of everything, good and bad. There's so much you can't test so how can you be sure your issue is bot stemming from premixed water? A RODI unit is $100, best investment ever.

TY...I certainly will look into a RO/DI.

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pappadumplingz

An rodi unit is the best investment I've made in the hobby so far. Being able to do all the water mixing at home is great, and you can tailor everything to your needs.

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Even if you can't get an ro/di, buying your own water and mixing your own woukd be more reliable.

 

You have no idea when the lfs chsnges the membranes, if theres any contamination of the water, or if its mixed properly.

 

I personally don't trust them. Lol

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I agree with the folks regarding a RODI.

Very good arguments for 1.

 

Regarding Salt, I have used in past, and like, Instant Ocean.

Any Pros/Cons on this product. I Learned my lesson with that TopFin Salt water concentrate...I can't trust it.

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To chime in with everyone saying 'don't trust your LFS water': You never know if they're using their own tanks' water, if they let their premixed water evaporate, if they 'pre-dose' for you and leave parameters crazy high by mistake, if they haven't changed their RO/DI filter (if they HAVE any), etc etc.

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Even if you don't get an RO/DI, even having some gallons of distilled water to mix with salt is better than nothing.

In terms of salt mix, I started a thread on that not too long ago:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/376047-the-salt-life-which-salt-do-you-use-the-more-responses-the-better/#entry5379934

 

There are plenty of responses to make a slightly more informed decision. :) But I'm a newbie so I can't help you with any of the water chemistry stuff-that's better coming from a pro, not me.

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My damsels highlandered themselves until there was one. The one that was left had no tail after a night of fighting. It died later that day. They seemed to get along but after lights out the killing was on. That was just my experience with damsels.

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I really appreciate everyone's input! TBH, I hadn't thought about the distilled water..Although I have seen it mentioned many times in various threads throughout the forums.

 

 

Even if you don't get an RO/DI, even having some gallons of distilled water to mix with salt is better than nothing.

In terms of salt mix, I started a thread on that not too long ago:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/376047-the-salt-life-which-salt-do-you-use-the-more-responses-the-better/#entry5379934

 

There are plenty of responses to make a slightly more informed decision. :) But I'm a newbie so I can't help you with any of the water chemistry stuff-that's better coming from a pro, not me.

Thank you! I will look at it. I believe I am following ur build thread.

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I really appreciate everyone's input! TBH, I hadn't thought about the distilled water..Although I have seen it mentioned many times in various threads throughout the forums.

 

 

Thank you! I will look at it. I believe I am following ur build thread.

Yep I think so.

 

I use exclusively distilled water with salt mix. Has worked out so far, but my tank is very young as you know.

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Some still believe distilled is an issue due to copper distilling. Most places don't use copper, the value of it is too high.

 

Most distilled water will be safe. I've used distilled and RO with no ill effects. You can get distilled anywhere which makes it easy.

 

Many use it.

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Imo you had a salinity and alk/mg spike. I have seen stressed fish die to a salinity spike, usually see it with improper acclimation with a wide difference in salinity though. A tank with that many damsels in it they had to have been stressed.

Looking at your stock list it doesn't look like you needed to be dosing any 2 part either. How did you figure out your dosing schedule?

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