New fish = quick death

[allenspidey]

So I've kept fish for a long time both FW and SW. My new nano tank appeared to have finished the cycle. 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites. I stopped at the LFS and picked up a green chromis. Did the usual procedures and he was dead in 10 hours. Looked fine when we went to bed and was dead in the morning. So I waited a week and tested again. Looked good. Took a sample of water to the lfs and he agreed. We put a small clown in last night and this morning he appeared to have brook and was dead in an hour. What am I missing? I now am planning a 25% water change and am going to wait a while. I just don't get it.

[TheUnfocusedOne]

Could have just been the fish. If it wasn't healthy before you got it there's not much you can do

 

How did you aclimate?

[ReefSafeSolutions]

I had pretty bad luck in my last tank...I was always nervous to add any fish because they'd randomly die. I think sometimes the fish just get mishandled and abused in collection, transit, and even AT the LFS. I lost a couple fish because they were too small I think.

 

I don't think you've missed anything, I think sometimes the fish are the hardest to keep. Especially because you don't know what exactly went in to getting the fish to the store. You never really know the backstory to any of the fish in the store.

[allenspidey]

I acclimated by floating for about 15 minutes and then adding aquarium water a little at a time for another 15 or so. Yeah I wonder about how healthy they are from the start. They looked fine but who knows. $30 wasted plus the frustration of losing fish.

[righttirefire]

A new cycled tank can read 0 ammonia, rites, and rates. If there is nothing to be consumed there is no bacteria. I assume you know this. I've used bacteria in a bottle times.

 

In my experience it's "your" fault if your fish doesn't make it 24 hours. I've lost 2 within 24 hours out of 11 fish. I've since lost 2 more fish after more than 1 year closer to 2 years. 1 disappeared. And 1 was eating but kept getting worse, stomach sunk in, I'm thinking parasite.

 

So... I wish you best of luck and it sucks losing fish. I prefer smaller fish, but some can be too small to adapt.

[owlshead19]

That happened with my tank - bought a fish - it died overnight - second fish - died the next day. I ended up waiting a few more weeks and ordered fish online with a live arrive and 14 day warranty. Healthy and happy swimming for weeks now.

[Jofiel]

Are you testing the salinity of the fish store water in the bag and yours before acclimating? If there is a big difference you will need to acclimate a lot slower than 15 minutes!

[allenspidey]

I did not test their water.

[ajmckay]

Lots and lots of reasons why a fish could die soon after you get it.

 

Remember they're under immense stress from well before you actually buy them to several weeks or months after they're in your tank (speaking to wild caught specimens). "The usual" isn't always appropriate

 

The things that come to mind are

1) temperature shock (I transport my fish home in an insulated container).

2) Salinity shock (test the bag water!)

3) Toxin of some sort (including ammonia - it's possible that all the bacteria necessary to complete the cycle are present, but not in sufficient numbers to support the bioload of a fish)

4) Would help to have a basic supply of medications on hand. Brooklynella kills really quick - but I'm sure you would be seeing symptoms more than 10 hours from death so I don't think disease is a likely culprit.

5) Do you trust your LFS? In other words are they reputable or are they the cheapest shop in town? I went to an excellent frag swap once where the speaker (Austin Lefevre) talked about the "dump and hope" approach we tend to take when adding new fish - and how our fish really deserve a more thought out approach. Don't listen to the LFS employee who says "yeah just float the bag and then dump the fish in". Such a response is only appropriate when you've made preparations to match the LFS water. It's far better to put some time and dedication into your acclimation method. Only buy a fish after you've had some time to observe it. Don't buy any fish if you suspect damage/disease. Etc...

 

Anyways my post is already too long but we can't really say why you're having issues with new fish because we don't know that many details in your original post. How long has the tank been set up for and how did you set it up for example? Hopefully with a little more preparation you will be more successful.

 

Good luck!

[BulkRate]

Not too long a post if it covers a bunch of relevant points, ajmckay.

 

To be fair, it's still possible to run the gamut of the previous list & still have mixed results - I for one just recently added a pair of elongated dottybacks. One's alive and swimming at the end of the week, one passed away mysteriously sometime in the late night of day 3/early morn of day #4.

 

Observed them for overall health at LFS for 3 days prior to buying, salinity of my tank matches their holding tanks (one of the reasons I buy there), both eating a variety of foods at store & once acclimated at home, ORA tank raised so as to not have a question of source or capture method (and because I'm trying to be better about how/where livestock comes from). Into a 5 year established tank. Trying to find the overlooked variable as I type.

 

I love watching new fish in my tank. I hate getting new fish into said tank.

 

If you don't have anything else inhabiting your tank I suggest you test you biofilter by dosing up to .5 or 1ppm of detectable ammonia and see how long it takes to be broken down into nitrates.

[allenspidey]

I appreciate the responses. The LFS I use is reputable and their stock looks good but they do have a ton of turnover. It's likely these fish had only been on site for a few days. I should have asked.

 

I just did a water change and noticed my salinity was high. It was 1.029. Not sure how that happened or why but it's possible that didn't help. Also I have snails and crabs and they are fine and have been fine. Haven't lost a one.

[Canadianeh]

Sorry to hear about your loss.

 

So if the salinity of water from LFS is higher than mine, do I go slower in acclimatizing the fish?

 

How about if the LFS salinity is lower than mine?

[Jofiel]

Basically, the fish will have a salinity in it's cells similar to the water it is in. When you move the fish into water that has a different salinity water crosses the cell membrane to even things out. This is called osmosis. Water will always move from low salinity to high until both sides of the membrane balance.

 

So if your fish is in a lower salinity water and you move it to higher, then water will move across the cell membrane out the cells. If you move the fish from higher salinity to lower the opposite will happen. Water will move into the cells. Either way, too fast and it can damage the cells and kill the fish.

 

It's why your fingers get pruney! Or why you soak swollen feet in salt water.

 

1.029 is really pretty high for fish. I would bet that the store's water is somewhere between 1.02-1.025. I try to keep my salinity at 1.025-1.026. and if there is a salinity difference drip acclimate the fish over an hour or so. Here's a couple links.

 

http://www.aquariumcreationsonline.net/acclimation.html

 

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1959576&highlight=acclimation

[allenspidey]

Thanks. I lowered my salinity a little last night and will keep doing so throughout the week a little at a time. I'm still not sure if that would account for such a quick death though. The inverts seem fine.

[ajmckay]

Thanks. I lowered my salinity a little last night and will keep doing so throughout the week a little at a time. I'm still not sure if that would account for such a quick death though. The inverts seem fine.

 

Definitely could... For example I once got a fish from a store near me (Petco) and using the same measuring device I recall that their salinity was around 1.013 and mine was at 1.025. Fortunately I was using a quarantine tank so all I had to do was lower the salinity real quick - but that kind of shock would likely have killed the fish quickly.

 

In my mind the only thing it could be is some type of shock given you don't really describe seeing any signs of physical injury (like you have a fish killing hitch hiker) or disease more than an hour before death.

[Canadianeh]

I don't a separate tank for quarantine purpose due to space issue. I don't have anymore space in my small condo.

 

Is it good to use one of those collapsible quarantine box that you can hang inside your tank?

[allenspidey]

 

Definitely could... For example I once got a fish from a store near me (Petco) and using the same measuring device I recall that their salinity was around 1.013 and mine was at 1.025. Fortunately I was using a quarantine tank so all I had to do was lower the salinity real quick - but that kind of shock would likely have killed the fish quickly.

 

In my mind the only thing it could be is some type of shock given you don't really describe seeing any signs of physical injury (like you have a fish killing hitch hiker) or disease more than an hour before death.

Yeah that's the truth. The clown looked fine. Was swimming around and seemed perfectly happy. The next mourning it looked like brook. White spots and slime. Rubbing on the rocks. He was dead in a couple hours.

I don't a separate tank for quarantine purpose due to space issue. I don't have anymore space in my small condo.

 

Is it good to use one of those collapsible quarantine box that you can hang inside your tank?

I think the problem with that would be that you are still using the same water and if something had a disease, the entire tank would be exposed to it. I don't have a QT either but I think I'd better buy one and get it set up somewhere.

[Canadianeh]

Basically, the fish will have a salinity in it's cells similar to the water it is in. When you move the fish into water that has a different salinity water crosses the cell membrane to even things out. This is called osmosis. Water will always move from low salinity to high until both sides of the membrane balance.

 

So if your fish is in a lower salinity water and you move it to higher, then water will move across the cell membrane out the cells. If you move the fish from higher salinity to lower the opposite will happen. Water will move into the cells. Either way, too fast and it can damage the cells and kill the fish.

 

It's why your fingers get pruney! Or why you soak swollen feet in salt water.

 

1.029 is really pretty high for fish. I would bet that the store's water is somewhere between 1.02-1.025. I try to keep my salinity at 1.025-1.026. and if there is a salinity difference drip acclimate the fish over an hour or so. Here's a couple links.

 

http://www.aquariumcreationsonline.net/acclimation.html

 

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1959576&highlight=acclimation

Very good articles! Thank you for that!

 

I think I can use a plastic storage container just like the one on article #1. I don't need a real aquarium tank for quarantine purpose.

[Jofiel]

Very good articles! Thank you for that!

 

I think I can use a plastic storage container just like the one on article #1. I don't need a real aquarium tank for quarantine purpose.

 

You can use a tupperware or other plastic container for acclimatization.

 

For quarantine, which last weeks, I know there are people who use a 5 gallon bucket with a filter, heater and clip on light, but it seems like it would be hard to keep an eye on everything in a bucket.

[ajmckay]

Yeah that's the truth. The clown looked fine. Was swimming around and seemed perfectly happy. The next mourning it looked like brook. White spots and slime. Rubbing on the rocks. He was dead in a couple hours.

I think the problem with that would be that you are still using the same water and if something had a disease, the entire tank would be exposed to it. I don't have a QT either but I think I'd better buy one and get it set up somewhere.

 

I'm not an expert on the timing for Brooklynella - I know it's very fast, but at least in the cases I've seen or dealt with there's usually 2-5 days between when the fish initially shows symptoms and when it dies. My only personal experience was actually about 5 days - but could have been delayed due to starting treatment on day 3 after noticing symptoms (obviously too late).

 

So I'm not saying Brooklynella can't kill in only a few hours, it's just been my experience that it's taken longer. Of course if you combine some type of shock with the infestation then that may explain it.... Your description sounds like the parasite.

 

Very good articles! Thank you for that!

 

I think I can use a plastic storage container just like the one on article #1. I don't need a real aquarium tank for quarantine purpose.

 

Agreed - you can use a 5g bucket with a heater and a small source of circulation if you wanted... Actually the opaque materials would only help the fish not become overly stressed (reducing light and movement is good). Of course the downside is that you can't really observe the fish though. Observation IMO is one of the primary reasons for going through QT. So I would aim to get something that you can see through. A 5g tank at walmart is only about $10 and you can easily set it on a bookshelf or something. Could also use a "critter keeper" - or check on craigslist as people are always selling stuff.

[pappadumplingz]

My tank has been running for 10 months and I bought a clown goby on Saturday. It died Monday morning. My other fish is fine, so I'm assuming it was a problem with the fish. Don't worry, it happens to all of us.

[allenspidey]

Yeah that's frustrating. I guess I'm going to try again and see what happens. Parameters look fine.

[Canadianeh]

 

 

My tank has been running for 10 months and I bought a clown goby on Saturday. It died Monday morning. My other fish is fine, so I'm assuming it was a problem with the fish. Don't worry, it happens to all of us.

 

 

I guess it is good to buy livestock that offers some sort of warranty period =)

[allenspidey]

 

I guess it is good to buy livestock that offers some sort of warranty period =)

In theory I agree but you usually pay twice as much online after shipping than just rolling the dice at the LFS.

[Canadianeh]

In theory I agree but you usually pay twice as much online after shipping than just rolling the dice at the LFS.

 

then we just need to shop around for the best choice Buyers these days are smarter buyers.