Steep learning curve

[MrsPeet15]

Hi guys, I've been fairly quiet the last few weeks whilst I've sorted out a near tank disaster. I hope our American friends are OK in the areas affected by hurricane Matthew and no-one has had any heartbreaking losses.

 

I wanted to share my story from the last couple of weeks, mostly so any fellow new people can see it and understand the importance of regular water changes and testing. I almost learnt the hard way!!

 

I have recently posted regarding a very sad looking leather. My mushroom and livestock looked fab so I assumed it was having a lengthy difficult shed and didn't pay it too much heed. I got lazy with my water testing as I had been extremely busy and prioritised other stuff first. I had always done water changes monthly. My mithrax started pulling at my Xenia, and then they started to look really really miserable. I put this down to them healing and carried on with life.

 

So about 2 weeks ago I noticed my nassarius had surfaced and stayed halfway up the tank behind the rock. I didn't realise it was dead until I spotted my 2 sexy shrimp eating it. Sure enough the shell was exactly where it had been the previous few days - now empty. I pulled the shell and dead snail out and then it hit me like a freight train when I put 2 and 2 together - corals looking miserable, clean up crew dying.... something was wrong.

 

I headed to the LFS as soon as my friend confirmed my fears and bought 3 salifert test kits (NO3 NH4 and NO2 - I had run out and failed to replace these) and a tub of salinity reef salt as I suspected a water change would be needed. I got home, tested the water and the nitrates were absolutely through the roof, I'm amazed everything in my tank was still alive - the test vial looked like it was full of beetroot juice and reading at over 100. I changed the water at 50% and the food coming off the rock was horrendous, I have blatantly been over feeding my tank quite dramatically and suspect this caused the spike. To add insult to injury it transpires I had left a bottle of nyos goldpods out of the fridge by accident. My husband put them back non the wiser that they had been sat at ambient temperate for too long and I then fed them thinking they had been in the fridge all the time. I'd basically been injecting rotten seafood into my tank!

It's taken two weeks but I'm finally down to nitrate readings of 5. The corals are looking better already and I am now doing a 10% water change every Saturday until things stabilise. I am testing the water every day and will continue to do so until I am getting regularly stable readings - it's like setting up all over again!

 

All of those could have been avoided if I had taken just 10 minutes out of my day every day to test the water. I have learnt now that if you are lazy about doing this, anything could be happening in your tank and you will be non the wiser until something dies.

 

So this has been a steep learning curve for me highlighting the importance of regular testing and just going to show that people aren't kidding when they talk about how hard it can be to keep small tanks ( mine is 15 litres) clean and to maintain good water quality. I certainly won't make this mistake again.......

[Clown79]

I suspect the over feeding of the rotten food is the culprit. The testing would have given you a heads up that something was going on.

 

There are times in life when priorities change. Ppl have family emergencies or health issues which prevent them from continuing their routine, even schedules.

 

Don't feel too bad, you caught it and corrected the sitution.

 

Glad things are going well

[MrsPeet15]

I suspect the over feeding of the rotten food is the culprit. The testing would have given you a heads up that something was going on.

 

There are times in life when priorities change. Ppl have family emergencies or health issues which prevent them from continuing their routine, even schedules.

 

Don't feel too bad, you caught it and corrected the sitution.

 

Glad things are going well

I know, to be fair it wasn't anything drastic it's just been busy at work so I've been coming home much later. The problem here too is the fact the nights are drawing in very quick so if I get home late there's no natural daylight to test in ? It was stupid, I beat myself up a bit (poor snail!) but it taught me a valuable lesson so I guess there's a positive there too! Thank goodness I caught it quick eh?!

 

Meant to include in the above post, Manuel the Xenia destroyer is going back to the LFS, gonna try a couple of hermits instead, do they generally leave coral alone?

[Astinus]

TY for posting this MrsPeet. Don't beat yourself up, chit happens sometimes.

I am recovering from a near disaster myself. TBH, I was am a little ashamed and quite frankly a little embarrassed.

My salinity got really whacked. I didn't catch it soon enough. (Lost 2 Damsels, a Dottyback and a Crab)

My point is, U brought up a great subject expounding the importance of checking water quality frequently.

 

As for the "Manuel", I don't know

[fishfreak0114]

I'm glad that you were able to fix the problem before further losses we all make these kinds of mistakes, lat December my tank was being poisoned with palytoxin while I was exterminating some pest Palys and it took some very angry corals and a couple days before I caught on! Thankfully I didn't lose anything, but it let my plate in rough shape!

 

My hermits have never bothered corals other than walking on them but that doesn't hurt them. Scarlett's are very pretty and peaceful, and blue legs are good too but may occasionally canibalize each other.

[MrsPeet15]

TY for posting this MrsPeet. Don't beat yourself up, chit happens sometimes.

I am recovering from a near disaster myself. TBH, I was am a little ashamed and quite frankly a little embarrassed.

My salinity got really whacked. I didn't catch it soon enough. (Lost 2 Damsels, a Dottyback and a Crab)

My point is, U brought up a great subject expounding the importance of checking water quality frequently.

 

As for the "Manuel", I don't know

Thanks for the replies guys, this is one of the lovely things about this forum, you can come on, hold your hands up and admit you made a mistake and no one is unpleasant about it.

 

Things seem to have stabilised a fair bit with Nitrates down to 5 ATM - I have a couple of theories as to why they still hadn't come down to zero but my main concern was some food detritus which had built up in the skimmer compartment. During today's water change I siphoned as much of this out as possible, and my friend has reccomended tiny vodka doses if this doesn't do the trick. My other nassarius is looking very unhappy, keeps rolling over into his back no matter how many times I right him - he's still moving so still alive, I think the spike might have made him rather unwell......

[Clown79]

You're right. No one really gets nasty on here, which is really nice. I feel that being nasty is not supportive nor does it get positive results.

 

Everyone has rough patches in life or makes mistakes. I feel helping the individual with advice and experience is far more productive than crapping on them

 

5 for nitrates isn't bad. Its ok to have some nutrients in the tank, it can be beneficial. I find things go south when the creep above 10.

 

Glad all is going well and this may help another from having similar issues

[MrsPeet15]

You're right. No one really gets nasty on here, which is really nice. I feel that being nasty is not supportive nor does it get positive results.

 

Everyone has rough patches in life or makes mistakes. I feel helping the individual with advice and experience is far more productive than crapping on them

 

5 for nitrates isn't bad. Its ok to have some nutrients in the tank, it can be beneficial. I find things go south when the creep above 10.

 

Glad all is going well and this may help another from having similar issues

Ok so my nitrates are back up to 25. I think my filter sponges have something to do with this, maybe they are holding onto nutrients? I'm going to try larger water changes too, I've been doing 2l weekly, but it's clearly not enough. Does anyone have any dos/donts on doing this? I'm going to try by just cleaning the first one in the tower (there are 6 or 7 blocks in it) as I don't want to risk killing off the eco system by cleaning too rigorously.

 

On a plus note my corals are making a come back and the crab/goby/shrimp are all ok. The sickly snail unfortunately died

[RayWhisperer]

Sponge? As in sponge blocks? If so, those are nearly impossible to completely clean. I would suggest removing those sponges, and replacing it with filter floss. It cleans better, and you just toss it out, instead of trying to wash it out.

 

While you are at it, you should clean your filter out, as well.

[MrsPeet15]

Sponge? As in sponge blocks? If so, those are nearly impossible to completely clean. I would suggest removing those sponges, and replacing it with filter floss. It cleans better, and you just toss it out, instead of trying to wash it out.

 

While you are at it, you should clean your filter out, as well.

Yeah that's right, they are pretty much blocks of foam. If that's the case I would certainly look into filter floss, I'll be doing a water change tomorrow so I'll take all of the foam out and post a pick of the chamber, how do I go about using floss Ray, just pack the chamber with it? In the meantime I might just try giving one of my sponges a really good squeeze out and soak?

I should probably add that ther is no 'filter' as such but a chamber next to the skimmer chamber that holds the foam blocks with a water inlet?

[RayWhisperer]

The best way would be to build, or buy, a basket of some sort. I built mine from "egg crate". Don't know what you guys call it on the other side of the pond. It's light diffuser, what everybody mounts their frag plugs in. That way you don't need to use more than a small handful, and it won't get packed into anything.

 

Until you get something built, I'd rinse that foam out as best as possible. I would say tap water is fine. However, I don't know to what extent your tap water is treated. Worst case, you rinse and squeeze under tap until mostly clean, then do a final few soak and squeeze in ro water. That, as well as cleaning out the back chambers will go a long way to bringing down nitrates.

[Astinus]

I have a JBJ Nano Cube, 28 gallon. I use the Sponge that came with it.

I haven't replaced this. I just do a good rinse every 2 weeks, under tap water

and bee sure I remove all excess water from it before I replace.

This is the product I use. Not sure if u use same.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13735&cmpid=03cseYY&gclid=Cj0KEQjwkdHABRCHiZ2gs6yGh50BEiQAA91WlkmmexjVLHj1onSVtk-8kRCNPulSczle4iglGiDQ4fYaAgEw8P8HAQ

[MrsPeet15]

The best way would be to build, or buy, a basket of some sort. I built mine from "egg crate". Don't know what you guys call it on the other side of the pond. It's light diffuser, what everybody mounts their frag plugs in. That way you don't need to use more than a small handful, and it won't get packed into anything.

 

Until you get something built, I'd rinse that foam out as best as possible. I would say tap water is fine. However, I don't know to what extent your tap water is treated. Worst case, you rinse and squeeze under tap until mostly clean, then do a final few soak and squeeze in ro water. That, as well as cleaning out the back chambers will go a long way to bringing down nitrates.

Thanks Ray that's really interesting I'll have a good look into doing this! Last time I did a water change I siphoned from the back chambers, there was a lot of food built up in the skimmer chamber so I sucked it all right out of there.

Tap water round these parts is funny stuff, the government adds fluoride to our water, not sure how this would affect the tank, plus as we live in Yorkshire up north, our water is extremely 'hard' that is it originates from huge beds of limestone at the source, it causes limescale and buildup in things like kettles, washing machines etc. I'd be frightened to put it in my tank after seeing how quickly it can ruin an electric kettle?

 

So a funny thing happened. Yesterday, frustrated and fed up with the nitrates being so high, I took my friends advice and tried a tiny vodka dose - 3 drops from a pipettes in the back water flow chamber....... just tested my nitrates and there is barely any trace at all?! Looks like it did the trick. I'd be very *very* cautious about doing this regularly as my tank is so tiny, but everything looks healthy and happy and the nitrates are almost gone after weeks of them hanging at around 25. I'm going to water change tomorrow, clean the sponge, have a good blast off of the rocks and then keep an eye on it the next week and see what happens.

Isn't this reef keeping business a funny ol'thing - constant experimenting and trial and error!

I have a JBJ Nano Cube, 28 gallon. I use the Sponge that came with it.

I haven't replaced this. I just do a good rinse every 2 weeks, under tap water

and bee sure I remove all excess water from it before I replace.

This is the product I use. Not sure if u use same.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13735&cmpid=03cseYY&gclid=Cj0KEQjwkdHABRCHiZ2gs6yGh50BEiQAA91WlkmmexjVLHj1onSVtk-8kRCNPulSczle4iglGiDQ4fYaAgEw8P8HAQ

That sponge is identical Astinus..... maybe I could trial washing the sponge for a while whilst I'm waiting for 'filter floss cage' stuff to arrive?

[Clown79]

I'd stop using sponges. They are notorious for trapping detritus and causing nutrient issues, even when washed nd replaced.

 

Switch to filter floss and replace twice a week. you can get a large bag for $10 and cut to size.

 

Filter should be cleaned monthly.

 

As for water source, use ro/di, ro, or distilled. TAp water has far too many elements that can lead to issues.

 

Be careful with vodka dosing. i would do lot of research on the process, its more in depth than just few drops here nd there.

[MrsPeet15]

I use RO water anyway, haven't dared use tap water. My uncle had a beautiful tank some years ago but after he found out he had a hideous eunicid worm infestation that killed all of his fish he backed off in maintenance and has only used tap water in topping off. Now he has a tank full of hermits, algae and monster aptasia. I looks really cool in a mad max post apocalyptic kind of way but it's certainly not what I want in my tank so I stayed clear!! I'm going to give filter floss a try, I don't want to risk a spike like that again. Im aware that vodka dosing willy billy is a big no no but I'm struggling to find advice on a tank so small. I found a really cool article explaining it but they had no formula for working out dosing in such small volumes of water, does anyone know a good formula to go by? I certainly won't be doing it again for a long time!

[Clown79]

How many gallons is your tank?

 

If your nitrates are creeping up that high that quickly, something is causing it.

 

The first thing i think of is the filter sponge, substrate, over feeding.

 

The best way to control nutrients is finding the source. the vodka dosing is just treating it, until you fix the cause, it will continue happening.

 

If you have an hob, it needs cleaning monthly

 

If its an aio, have you cleaned the chambers?

 

Do you vacuum the sand?

 

Are you adding any other products?

 

I can't offer any dosing for the tank. i don't vodka dose.

[MrsPeet15]

How many gallons is your tank?

 

If your nitrates are creeping up that high that quickly, something is causing it.

 

The first thing i think of is the filter sponge, substrate, over feeding.

 

The best way to control nutrients is finding the source. the vodka dosing is just treating it, until you fix the cause, it will continue happening.

 

If you have an hob, it needs cleaning monthly

 

If its an aio, have you cleaned the chambers?

 

Do you vacuum the sand?

 

Are you adding any other products?

 

I can't offer any dosing for the tank. i don't vodka dose.

Ok so I'm running a TMC Aqua habitats 15l which is 3.3 gallons I think last time I checked - sorry I do everything in imperial measurements!

It has 3 rear chambers, one for the skimmer, one for the foam pads that act as an additional filter and another that hoses the return nozzle and the heater - I will post pics.

 

I suspect the original spike was caused either by overdeeding, or the fact that I accidentally fed gone off NYOS goldpods - I had left them out of the fridge by accident and my husband didn't realise how long they had been out returning to the fridge. I then fed the tank with them non the wiser and not so long after one of my snails died prompting me to water test and realising they were so high.

I started water changing weekly rather than monthly and they have come down but slowly - for now they are at zero. The skimmer chamber at the back of the tank had trapped a whole lot of food so when I change, I blast off the rocks and the sand, siphon out 2 litres and then blast the bottom of the skimmer chamber and siphone 1 litre totalling 3l from the tank. Today I have taken out the top sponge from the rear chamber and soaked, and squeezes it in RO during my water change. It absolutely stunk, the water went grey and I spotted some waste food on top of the other sponge which I also sucked out.

So now I plan to test the water every night for a week to see if the nitrates stay lower now I have rinsed the sponge out, but I think you and RayWhisperer are right Clown - the sponges are just holding all the nasty sand pumping nutrients into my tank?

I get where you are coming from in terms of the vodka dosing masking the problem as opposed to treating it, I'm going to switch to filter floss and see if this helps to maintain a cleaner system. Until the gear arrives I'll keep cleaning the sponges and sucking out any trapped food. I'm not adding anything else and have only dosed vodka once

[MrsPeet15]

This is the rear of the tank:

This is how the tank is looking at the moment

 

Xenia are starting to look really healthy again - I was certain they were a gonner, the leather is getting there, the mushroom has thrived throughout and has actually grown, Mithrax, green clown goby and sexy shrimp have been fine throughout, the snails came off worse and died unfortunately

Several hitchikers have also surfaced throughout the spike including a brittle star, several humongous spionid worms and some amphipods

[Clown79]

I suspect the sponge probably is a main culprit. When i had my first reef i used a sponge. I would remove the sponge and rinse until clean and replace completely new every 2 weeks...my nitrates spiked after 3 mnths. Thats when i learned about filter floss.

 

Filter floss is so much cheaper than the sponges too. Just remember to put a new piece in at least 1x a week. If its brown mid week, change it.

 

Weekly water changes are far better than monthly too, especially on a pico. you don't need to do a big one on 3gallons so its pretty easy and quick.

 

Vacuum your sand, use your turkey baster on the rocks, switch out the floss. if you use carbon rinse the media bag and replace carbon monthly.

 

If you don't vacuum the sand, only start doing a small bit at a time each week until it becomes a regular routine.

 

Cleaning out the chambers is important, so much stuff gets left in there.

 

You can make a media basket for your second chamber. Its pretty easy. there are diy intructions which use eggcrate. then you can place the floss in there and media bags.

 

Or you can buy one just take measurements of your chamber.

Heres what one looks like from eggcrate.

[MrsPeet15]

I suspect the sponge probably is a main culprit. When i had my first reef i used a sponge. I would remove the sponge and rinse until clean and replace completely new every 2 weeks...my nitrates spiked after 3 mnths. Thats when i learned about filter floss.

 

Filter floss is so much cheaper than the sponges too. Just remember to put a new piece in at least 1x a week. If its brown mid week, change it.

 

Weekly water changes are far better than monthly too, especially on a pico. you don't need to do a big one on 3gallons so its pretty easy and quick.

 

Vacuum your sand, use your turkey baster on the rocks, switch out the floss. if you use carbon rinse the media bag and replace carbon monthly.

 

If you don't vacuum the sand, only start doing a small bit at a time each week until it becomes a regular routine.

 

Cleaning out the chambers is important, so much stuff gets left in there.

 

You can make a media basket for your second chamber. Its pretty easy. there are diy intructions which use eggcrate. then you can place the floss in there and media bags.

 

Or you can buy one just take measurements of your chamber.

Heres what one looks like from eggcrate.

Hey Clown (and everyone else) sorry for the radio silence it's been a very VERY busy week

 

Took everyone's advice and had a look at the sponges - yuk. Like literally puke inducing yuk. They stunk, and the water I siphoned out of the chamber was like gray old fish water with all sorts of crap floating in it, it was absolutely disgusting. My nitrates have come righ down to 0.5 since and stayed that way so hoping that this weeks water change will get some of the last of it out, I've wrung out the sponges and cleaned the chambers again tonight so will see what happens.

Someone has very very kindly offered to build me a media basket - I barely have time to sleep this time of year so I'm very grateful for this, but just to keep you all posted I totally agree - sponge is the devil!

In better news, my leather is starting to recover from the spike and is showing polyps again so it looks like my only casualties were the snails - I'm going to pick another up tomorrow.

Just wanted to say a huge thanks to everyone on here really, what a fantastic community of kind and helpful people - much appreciated:)

[Clown79]

Glad to hear all is working out.

 

I hadn't cleaned my back chambers in a while and my nutrient levels spiked and pf course hair algae came next.

 

It was pretty gross the condition of mine too.

 

You don't need 0 nitrates, a bit is ok but once they hit 10+, I've found algae starts.

[MrsPeet15]

Glad to hear all is working out.

 

I hadn't cleaned my back chambers in a while and my nutrient levels spiked and pf course hair algae came next.

 

It was pretty gross the condition of mine too.

 

You don't need 0 nitrates, a bit is ok but once they hit 10+, I've found algae starts.

Thanks clown, I'm just about starting to get there. I'll have to keep on top of cleaning the back chambers, and just keep an eye on the sponges until I can switch out for floss, I can't wait to get some in there now and get my tank back to good health!

Yes the algae is certainly there, I went to the LFS today, and after doing some research decided a Trochus snail might be a good replacement for my nassarius I lost - I'm frightened now that if I got nassarius again and they died under the substrate I'd have another headache on my hands. He's been in there for 4 hours now and is merrily munching his way through the crap that has built up on the back wall - he's done a better clean up job in 4 hours than my lazy ass Mithrax has done in 4 months haha. Hopefully he'll make short work of the algae that appeared after the spike.

[Clown79]

I love my nassarius, i have found the hermits get to them pretty quickly when they die.

Trochus are great cleaners, same with spiny star astreas.

 

My emerald crab never touched the algae on my sand bed, he'd clean the rocks and thats it.

[MrsPeet15]

I love my nassarius, i have found the hermits get to them pretty quickly when they die.

Trochus are great cleaners, same with spiny star astreas.

 

My emerald crab never touched the algae on my sand bed, he'd clean the rocks and thats it.

I loved them too, but no hermits in my tank to let me know if something's gone awry!

I do love the trochus, it's got a beautiful shell! My Mithras comes out every now and again to pick at the rocks but he tends to just chase the shrimp until he can pinch an algae pellet.

I fed brine shrimp for the first time ever and my goby ate one or two then surprisingly got bored, perhaps he wasn't too hungry.

The Mithras went crazy, zooming all over the tank for ages and he didn't stop until he got one!

[Clown79]

You may need to up the cuc. They really help