seabass Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 All blue light works, all white works, but all red will be bad IMO. Which is why it might be good to use another section that wouldn't grow coral very well. It's not very interesting if the coral grows the same under two different spectrums. Having other spectrums which don't grow coral very well make the experiment more compelling. The thing I liked about the sump was that it shared the heater. Without it, you might need a cheap heater for each compartment (or bucket); otherwise one section might be warmer than the others (which can affect metabolic activity and growth). However, it might be possible to do the experiment without a heater. Also, I might be inclined to use green star polyps for my coral. They grow quickly They don't need a rack, as they will grow on the bottom Their mat can be cut to a uniform starting size, so you can easily measure their growth (in square centimeters) Link to comment
fishfreak0114 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 You would still need to provide a complete spectrum to sustain the coral. I don't think coral would do especially well just under a red light vs blue light though I might be misunderstanding you. Also, I was thinking about this on my way to work today. What if you were to look at two complete spectrum designs - one designed for making coral look the best verses one designed for growth specifically. I think if you use black buckets connected to the same water supply like Seabass said, you can make this fairly inexpensively. There will be some money out for sure since you will need some cheap pumps, some plumbing parts and the LEDs. Plastic buckets are simple to drill and it could be done with a regular hole saw in a regular drill. You could get something like a black five gallon bucket easily for under ten dollars.You may also be able to use thick walled Rubbermaid bins. Could coral not live under just red? I'm curious to see if it would live but not grow. I don't think I'll have enough diodes to make two inferential spectrums. I'm going to ask my mom about the bucket idea. I bet some people near me would have a spare heater and maybe even a pump. I like the look of the maxijet400, and I can get them for $30 a piece. Yeah, a standard hole saw that connects to a drill works fine. Here are the Uniseal bulkheads. The 1" bulkhead uses 1" PVC pipe and requires a 1 ¾ or 44mm holesaw The 1½ bulkhead uses a 1½ PVC pipe and requires a 2½ or 64mm holesaw In theory, you could connect as many buckets as you can afford, or have room for. Thanks Seabass! All blue light works, all white works, but all red will be bad IMO. As red does not penetrate the water very far. The flow will be the hardest to keep constant without placing each in own area without own powerhead. I kind of want to try red and see what happens. I would have to put a pump in each bucket. Which is why it might be good to use another section that wouldn't grow coral very well. It's not very interesting if the coral grows the same under two different spectrums. Having other spectrums which don't grow coral very well make the experiment more compelling. The thing I liked about the sump was that it shared the heater. Without it, you might need a cheap heater for each compartment (or bucket); otherwise one section might be warmer than the others (which can affect metabolic activity and growth). However, it might be possible to do the experiment without a heater. Also, I might be inclined to use green star polyps for my coral. They grow quickly They don't need a rack, as they will grow on the bottom Their mat can be cut to a uniform starting size, so you can easily measure their growth (in square centimeters) I agree with you that it would be interesting to see what the red does I could always buy cheap preset heaters from Walmart. They're ok, I use them in my QT. I would definitely do GSP, but I kind of want to see if different corals have different growth. I was thinking I could do it all by weight and see the total mass increase from beginning to end. Link to comment
Boggers Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I like the way this is shaping up. I would like to see how only red would do. honestly it might grow extremely well as the zoo in the coral will be well fed this way. Link to comment
seabass Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I was thinking I could do it all by weight and see the total mass increase from beginning to end. That's a good idea. Link to comment
fishfreak0114 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 Something like this? Ignore how messy it is, quickly done on my lunch break Link to comment
pappadumplingz Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Something like this? Ignore how messy it is, quickly done on my lunch break What would you use to grow the control corals? Link to comment
seabass Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Something like this? Yeah. You could even fill the buckets half full to make it more shallow (and recess the lights down into the buckets, preventing light from bleeding out, and making the light more intense). Link to comment
fishfreak0114 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 What would you use to grow the control corals?White. Anyone know what white I should use? Cool, neutral, warm or a combo? It'll be two diodes. Rapidled has emailed me back, and it sounds like when the experiment is done I can switch out the blue and red for more white and use it on another tank (planning a FW puffer tank) so I think that kits a go. Will the 6 LED's split between three buckets be enough light if I the corals are close to them (like 4-6 inches)?Yeah. You could even fill the buckets half full to make it more shallow (and recess the lights down into the buckets, preventing light from bleeding out, and making the light more intense).I think I would want the buckets at near full capacity for stability, but since I plan on DIYing the racks out of egg crate I'll make them nice and high. Could I paint the glass black on the outside (except where the light would be) to prevent light escaping? I plan on mounting the LED's in u-channel. They'd have that at the hardware store right? Link to comment
pappadumplingz Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Maybe use a full spectrum light as the control, as to show how "regular" reef lighting grows coral compared to blue or red. Link to comment
fishfreak0114 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 What would you suggest for the regular colors? I know it's different for everyone. I run my tank fairly white. One white and one blue? Link to comment
pappadumplingz Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 I guess 14k, which is a mix of blue and white to my knowledge. Only been in the hobby for 9-10 months so I'm probably not the best person to ask. The light over my tank is 14k, and all the corals seem to do well, so I'd image it's a spectrum fit for most species. Link to comment
fishfreak0114 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 I found mj400's for $20 each at a place only two hours away. There's a chance I could be going there this weekend to buy a fish. Link to comment
fishfreak0114 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 I guess 14k, which is a mix of blue and white to my knowledge. Only been in the hobby for 9-10 months so I'm probably not the best person to ask. The light over my tank is 14k, and all the corals seem to do well, so I'd image it's a spectrum fit for most species.I'm going to do more reading into neutral and warm white and see what parts of the spectrum they are strongest in. Maybe that will help my decision. Good news! My mom likes the bucket idea! So I'm just pricing it all out right now. Still don't know if anyone's gonna help me out money wise. Let's hope so Link to comment
pappadumplingz Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 start a kickstarter haha Link to comment
Cintax Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Well, my LED setup is 2:1 Royal Blue:Neutral White. I have successfully kept coral with that basic combination for five years. Link to comment
fishfreak0114 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 start a kickstarter haha Well, my LED setup is 2:1 Royal Blue:Neutral White. I have successfully kept coral with that basic combination for five years.Ok, then I'll probably get a royal blue and a neutral white for the control Link to comment
pappadumplingz Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 So what is the cost of this whole project atm? Link to comment
fishfreak0114 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 So what is the cost of this whole project atm? Umm, kind of TBD. It depends if I can get any heaters/pumps/rock donated. It's looking like $200-250? and I don't have prices for everything (like the PVC and u channel). And I bet I'm forgetting something that I'll have to buy lol Link to comment
pappadumplingz Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Jeez, your spending a lot on a science project. You reckon your school will reimburse you some of the money? Link to comment
fishfreak0114 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 Jeez, your spending a lot on a science project. You reckon your school will reimburse you some of the money? It is a lot of money, but science is my favorite class and I'll be studying something interesting so I don't mind spending some money on it. And the lights will be re used. And heaters and pumps can be too. Apparently the school might reimburse part,but it's not a sure thing. Link to comment
drgibby Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Seabass had a great idea for the setup. Sump leading to 3 buckets or all 3 connected by a pipe allowing flow between all all with powerheads. If your comparing growth based on wavelength your control should be natural sunlight to pick a wavelength as your control would just be testing a different wavelength. just my opinion Link to comment
fishfreak0114 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 Seabass had a great idea for the setup. Sump leading to 3 buckets or all 3 connected by a pipe allowing flow between all all with powerheads. If your comparing growth based on wavelength your control should be natural sunlight to pick a wavelength as your control would just be testing a different wavelength. just my opinion Unfortunately with this being setup in a classroom I can't use natural sunlight. There's only one tiny window. And the days are mostly overcast now. Could I mimick natural sunlight with certain LED's? If not, I think I'll just do regular reef tank lighting. Link to comment
seabass Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Could I mimick natural sunlight with certain LED's? I believe that peak natural daylight is between 5,000 and 5,500K. Cool or neutral white LEDs (or a combination of the two) will be the closest to natural daylight). However, since corals are usually deeper than the depth of a 5 gallon bucket, the temperature at depth will be cooler. This is why we add blue light to reef lighting. Link to comment
fishfreak0114 Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 Thanks, so I guess I'm between two neutral white and one neutral white with one royal blue. Do you think it would be better to have it like at the surface, or how the light is at the depth the corals naturally are at? Link to comment
seabass Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 This is how different wavelengths penetrate water: So the spectrum at a natural reef will vary greatly depending on how shallow the reef is. Thanks, so I guess I'm between two neutral white and one neutral white with one royal blue. Do you think it would be better to have it like at the surface, or how the light is at the depth the corals naturally are at? The height of the LEDs above the water level will depend on the lenses you choose. The more focused the lenses the higher they need to be for the light to widen enough to fill the area. Also, the more focused the lens, the deeper the light penetration through water. Since you plan on reusing these for hobby purposes, choose the lenses that you plan on using for your reef tank. 60 degree optics are fairly common. However, you choose not to install the lenses, then you would want the LEDs as close to the water as possible. Link to comment
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