T5 Hybrid Build Input

[HM3105]

Hey all,

 

 

I posted this same question on R2R (I know but the new tank is officially outside of the nano realm) and only had feedback from one person. While I appreciated it, I was hoping for just a little more.

 

The new tank is 48x30x18 (LxWxH).

 

I'm planning to use these arrays: https://blueacro.com/acrostar/products

 

Coupled with a pair of T5 (most likely actinic) to fill in some gaps.

 

I've tentatively narrowed my designs down to the layouts below. The first design uses 3 of the "Full Mega" arrays and the second uses 5 of the "Half Mega".

 

Goals:

 

1. Reducing shadowing for SPS colonies.

2. Achieve a minimum PAR of 100 on the sandbed throughout the tank

3. Achieve a maximum par of 400 at the brightest point, which I feel would be roughly a 12"-16" strip down the middle of tank and directly under the lights.

 

The maker of the arrays I am proposing to use have a preliminary spread as follows:

 

 

 

 

I appreciate everyone's time and feedback on this.

[jedimasterben]

Your LED numbers are half what they need to be for a 30" width tank. You will need an absolute minimum of two rows, no matter what LED array/DIY/etc that you use.

[HM3105]

Your LED numbers are half what they need to be for a 30" width tank. You will need an absolute minimum of two rows, no matter what LED array/DIY/etc that you use.

such a buzzkill....

 

So two rows down the center or spaced out differently?

 

I was looking at what the map shows and it looked like the arrays would provide 24" square of useable light, I was hoping the T5 would make help on the edges..

[spectra]

My new tank is pretty much the same set up 48x30x16 I had Dave retro me a 48" ATI

 

[HM3105]

My new tank is pretty much the same set up 48x30x16 I had Dave retro me a 48" ATI

 

Wow that looks nice! It has 6 T5 left?

[spectra]

Wow that looks nice! It has 6 T5 left?

 

Yes was an 8 bulb and Dave took out 2 bulbs and added the arrays. I think it will work out well for growing just about anything. Looking forward to getting the tank up.

[jedimasterben]

such a buzzkill....

 

So two rows down the center or spaced out differently?

 

I was looking at what the map shows and it looked like the arrays would provide 24" square of useable light, I was hoping the T5 would make help on the edges..

24" of coverage from a 1" array? Oh god no Especially not to reduce shading, which is your goal. Think Kessil. They give extreme shadows because they use a tiny point-source of light. Even the diffusers that they're selling now will do nothing for them to reduce shadowing, because the same point sources of light are being used.

 

My 80g tank was 48x24x16, and with two rows of four NBR arrays I had pretty good coverage, but for full front to back coverage I still wanted more lol and was planning on a third row. The two rows covered my 40 breeder perfectly, though.

 

Absolute minimum you will need eight of either array. Buzzzzzzz

[HM3105]

24" of coverage from a 1" array? Oh god no Especially not to reduce shading, which is your goal. Think Kessil. They give extreme shadows because they use a tiny point-source of light. Even the diffusers that they're selling now will do nothing for them to reduce shadowing, because the same point sources of light are being used.

 

My 80g tank was 48x24x16, and with two rows of four NBR arrays I had pretty good coverage, but for full front to back coverage I still wanted more lol and was planning on a third row. The two rows covered my 40 breeder perfectly, though.

 

Absolute minimum you will need eight of either array. Buzzzzzzz

Oh good so 8 is an option!

 

I was expecting some shadowing, I guess I was just expecting the T5 to fill in most of the difference in those areas.

 

So either of these would work but I presume you would recommend the 10 array option to achieve my goals outlined above?

 

 

 

 

Also, since I would now be using either 8 or 10 of these, should I just skip the diffuser?

[jedimasterben]

The 8 is probably what I would go with, unless you go for 11 and hit three rows (4-3-4). I would still recommend the diffusers to mix the light from the arrays better. More mixing is always better

 

 

And you won't need to push these very hard to get good PAR, probably won't need more than 350mA through them.

[HM3105]

The 8 is probably what I would go with, unless you go for 11 and hit three rows (4-3-4). I would still recommend the diffusers to mix the light from the arrays better. More mixing is always better

 

 

And you won't need to push these very hard to get good PAR, probably won't need more than 350mA through them.

 

Ok good because it'll be much easier to mount the fans using the 8 array option!

[HM3105]

The 8 is probably what I would go with, unless you go for 11 and hit three rows (4-3-4). I would still recommend the diffusers to mix the light from the arrays better. More mixing is always better

 

 

And you won't need to push these very hard to get good PAR, probably won't need more than 350mA through them.

 

How many arrays to skip the T5 do you think?

[gus6464]

You can go blueacro with ledil angela-z and mount high. Will require less arrays and light that sucker real nice. 8 arrays can do it. Each row has 4 arrays spaced out a foot apart with rows roughly 18 inches apart.

 

Think of Angela-Z as having tiny metal halides.

[HM3105]

You can go blueacro with ledil angela-z and mount high. Will require less arrays and light that sucker real nice. 8 arrays can do it. Each row has 4 arrays spaced out a foot apart with rows roughly 18 inches apart.

 

Think of Angela-Z as having tiny metal halides.

 

diffuser or no?

 

Half or full size arrays?

[gus6464]

 

diffuser or no?

 

Half or full size arrays?

 

Diffuser will make it have less shimmer. Full size arrays, always full size. Also when I say Angela I don't mean the ones on the blueacro site. I mean the big ones RMC is using.

[HM3105]

 

Diffuser will make it have less shimmer. Full size arrays, always full size. Also when I say Angela I don't mean the ones on the blueacro site. I mean the big ones RMC is using.

So here us my concern with full led. Ive got two evil clusters over my tank now and while I love them the shadowing on the sticks I have is annoying. Am I going to have that regardless of which build out I use or will the t5 make up the difference?

[gus6464]

So here us my concern with full led. Ive got two evil clusters over my tank now and while I love them the shadowing on the sticks I have is annoying. Am I going to have that regardless of which build out I use or will the t5 make up the difference?

 

Hard to say. I have only made one big reflector based light in a planted tank with the big huge bridgelux emitters and big ledil reflectors and was super happy with the outcome. I hung that sucker high and the spread was absolutely amazing with minimal light splash. When I switched to reefing I wanted to do the same thing but pucks like blueacro that allowed for big reflectors did not exist.

[HM3105]

The 8 is probably what I would go with, unless you go for 11 and hit three rows (4-3-4). I would still recommend the diffusers to mix the light from the arrays better. More mixing is always better

 

 

And you won't need to push these very hard to get good PAR, probably won't need more than 350mA through them.

 

Hey Jedi, in this recommendation, were you assuming I was using the full size puck or the half size?

[HM3105]

 

Hard to say. I have only made one big reflector based light in a planted tank with the big huge bridgelux emitters and big ledil reflectors and was super happy with the outcome. I hung that sucker high and the spread was absolutely amazing with minimal light splash. When I switched to reefing I wanted to do the same thing but pucks like blueacro that allowed for big reflectors did not exist.

 

So I am now very intrigued by the Ledil reflectors with the mixing lenses. I saw RMC was using those but hasn't used them before or is this just experimental at this point?

[gus6464]

 

So I am now very intrigued by the Ledil reflectors with the mixing lenses. I saw RMC was using those but hasn't used them before or is this just experimental at this point?

 

Ledil reflectors have existed for years now.

[HM3105]

 

Ledil reflectors have existed for years now.

 

I meant the mixing lenses, I wasn't sure if we knew how those impact our lights and specifically how much PAR we lose using those? I'm wondering if that mixing lens would be better or the same as using the mixing lens from BlueAcro.

[R_MC]

 

I meant the mixing lenses, I wasn't sure if we knew how those impact our lights and specifically how much PAR we lose using those? I'm wondering if that mixing lens would be better or the same as using the mixing lens from BlueAcro.

 

When I spoke with a LEDIL rep they gave me a figure of 5-7% loss in overall output. Well worth it in my book for proper color mixing. The plastic primary optics we use on most leds have higher losses than that when you account for shallow angle scattering outside of the tank space.

[Horerczy]

5-7% loss isn't that bad considering how powerful most led chips are today compared to the old XR-E chips that could still bleach corals.

[R_MC]

5-7% loss isn't that bad considering how powerful most led chips are today compared to the old XR-E chips that could still bleach corals.

 

Since LED's can pump out blue wavelengths super efficiently, and since coral can use blue light so efficiently - we don't need to be concerned with the relative efficiency of LED's compared to other light sources. I think the major concern is shaping / blending / projecting LED light in a way that will effectively grow coral. SPS keepers have seen for a long time that T5 are great for getting very natural, full SPS colonies. With metal halides, to do that you definitely wanted a very large reflector so that you could get properly diffused light. Now with LED's, we have very tight clusters that produce great shimmer but produce awful shadowing and hotspots (even worse in that we get color shadowing, so some coral tissue may only receive white light - while its neighboring tissue receives strong blue or red light (depending on led spacing).

 

Many users have seen that supplementing a small amount of T5 resolves many of the LED shortcomings. I don't believe that this is an issue of spectrum - I think it's just that most of our coral is in a fixed position, and if our light is fixed then part of the coral will forever be in shade.

[HM3105]

 

When I spoke with a LEDIL rep they gave me a figure of 5-7% loss in overall output. Well worth it in my book for proper color mixing. The plastic primary optics we use on most leds have higher losses than that when you account for shallow angle scattering outside of the tank space.

 

So I know this is going to be a stupid question, but is the loss in output going to match with the loss in PAR? Meaning, Ledil may indicate you're losing light but does it match the PAR you're losing? I've perceived those to be different things.

 

Secondly, how is the shadowing on your build using these reflectors ex. T5?

[HM3105]

 

Ledil reflectors have existed for years now.

 

 

The 8 is probably what I would go with, unless you go for 11 and hit three rows (4-3-4). I would still recommend the diffusers to mix the light from the arrays better. More mixing is always better

 

 

And you won't need to push these very hard to get good PAR, probably won't need more than 350mA through them.

 

So guys, if I skip the diffuser and went with something like this, does that result in bad shadowing or the same as using the diffuser?

 

http://www.ledil.com/node/2/p/13122?ds=1&mn=0&ld=18&md=0&xd=0&mh=0&xh=0&mt=0&mf=0&xf=0&sf=0&fm=0&ty=0&sm=0&cn=0&vc=0&io=0&tro=0&tpo=0&tr=n0&tp=n0&trt=0&tpt=0&fr=n0&st=0&pg=0&lo=n0&ol=0&of=0&od=0&oh=0

 

Or even something like this?

http://www.ledil.com/node/2/p/5030?ds=1&mn=0&ld=18&md=0&xd=0&mh=0&xh=0&mt=0&mf=0&xf=0&sf=0&fm=0&ty=0&sm=0&cn=0&vc=0&io=0&tro=0&tpo=0&tr=n0&tp=n0&trt=0&tpt=0&fr=n0&st=0&pg=0&lo=n0&ol=0&of=0&od=0&oh=0