Nitrites too high during cycle? Help please!

[xilez]

Hey guys,

 

Currently on day 10 of my cycle (live sand and dry rock). Following the dr tims method with one and only and ammonium chloride dosing.

 

Have not dosed since day 6. It looks like ammonia is ok, but nitrites seem pretty high. According to dr tims, I should not let nitrite get above 5ppm.... So I need to do some water changes to lower the nitrite? Or should I wait another couple of days and test again? I am worried that the high nitrites could be slowing the cycle down.

 

 

Thoughts?

[xilez]

http://s346.photobucket.com/user/PurpATL/library/Mobile%20Uploads

 

There is a link to the tests, couldn't get it to embed

[Jayva]

Is their fish?

 

If not wait til tomorrow it might be a spike. See if they lower

 

Nothing will die. High nitrites means the BBs are doing their job converting ammonia. Now we need them to convert nitrite into nitrate.

[seabass]

Wait a day or two and test again. If it isn't coming down on its own, do a large water change and then let it come down on its own before dosing again. However, if it is coming down, continue to let it come down on its own without water changes.

[xilez]

Updating on this, Nitrites still high, but ammonia appears to be below .25 ppm.. continue waiting or do a water change?

[seabass]

Yeah, I probably would do a large water change to help lower nitrite. Then hopefully it will continue to lower on it's own.

[xilez]

Would doing a water change remove any of the bacteria I am trying to build up? I am tempted to give it one more week, as we are only a few days into the 3rd week of the cycle..but the Dr Tims website mentioned having high nitrites (even though my ammonia is going down) will do more harm than good and actually slow down the cycle.

[seabass]

Would doing a water change remove any of the bacteria I am trying to build up? I am tempted to give it one more week, as we are only a few days into the 3rd week of the cycle..but the Dr Tims website mentioned having high nitrites (even though my ammonia is going down) will do more harm than good and actually slow down the cycle.

The majority of the nitrifying bacteria reside on surfaces (not in the water column). However, water changes can extend the cycle a little, but will not halt it.

 

However, DrTim's Aquatics states, "IMPORTANT – Do not let the ammonia OR nitrite concentration get above 5 ppm. If either ammonia or nitrite concentration get above 5 ppm, do water changes to lower the concentration." http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling

 

I know that when ammonia gets too high, it impedes the bacteria populations. I assume that this might be true for nitrite as well (which is probably why they recommend water changes if either get above 5ppm.

[xilez]

Is it possible I still need to be dosing ammonia? As it is below .5ppm

[seabass]

The guide states, "When BOTH ammonia and nitrite are below 0.2 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N), add another 2 ppm ammonia." I'd wait until you can get nitrite down before dosing more ammonia.

[xilez]

I have seen so much mixed stuff about a cycle being stalled. However it has been 6ish days since this post, and my nitrite readings are still the same color. So I assume the nitrites must be huge.

[ReefSafeSolutions]

My nitrites took longer to come down than ammonia, with Dr. Tim's bacteria. But they eventually did come down. It seems like mine got over 5ppm as well and I didn't have any problem. It's just a waiting game for the nitrites to drop.

 

If you're worried, do a water change and see what happens. Once your nitrites come down, dose ammonia to 1-2ppm as the guide states, and see how long everything takes to come down.

[xilez]

Is it possible I have let Nitrites sit too high for too many days? Could this have killed off some of the bacteria?

[seabass]

You won't lose your bacteria. But as the guide instructs, both ammonia and nitrite should be below 5ppm or you can impede the process.

[-E-]

The guide states, "When BOTH ammonia and nitrite are below 0.2 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N), add another 2 ppm ammonia." I'd wait until you can get nitrite down before dosing more ammonia.

Now there's something I needed to know. My nitrites have been at 0.2 for the past few days. I thought I had to wait until they hit 0.0 before moving on to the next step.

[seabass]

Nitrite isn't very toxic at saltwater pH levels, so I don't even own a nitrite test kit. However, when dosing ammonia (ammonium chloride) to build up the biofilter of dry rock, you don't want either ammonia or nitrite to get above 5ppm. But as long as it stays below this level, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[scurvy dawg]

Nitrite isn't very toxic at saltwater pH levels, so I don't even own a nitrite test kit. However, when dosing ammonia (ammonium chloride) to build up the biofilter of dry rock, you don't want either ammonia or nitrite to get above 5ppm. But as long as it stays below this level, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Seabass, If you are doing a fishless cycle with dry rock what does a high nitrite level do? Just wondering because I've cycled a few tanks over the years and have never really worried about how high my nitrites got during the cycle. Was I just lucky?

[seabass]

Like I said, I don't test for nitrite either. It's been over a decade since I've even owned a nitrite test kit. However, simply based on DrTim's fishless cycling guide, I assume that levels above 5ppm are detrimental to the bacteria species that utilize it.

 

If you keep ammonia at 2ppm or less (as instructed), I'm not sure how common it would be for nitrite to spike above 5ppm. However, you will know if your biofilter is processing nitrite if the nitrate levels are going up.

[xilez]

I think ill do about 30-40% water change and see if the nitrite levels are down after about an hour. Keep you posted, thanks for all the input Seabass

[xilez]

Got a response from Dr Tims

 

"A little assumption on our part since you didnt provide actual numbers but it seems you didnt add enough ammonia to get very high nitrite.

So where is the ammonia coming from that is producing the nitrite?

The answer is the live sand.

The live sand is full organics that are broken down and ammonia is produced.

 

We tell you all this because a single water change might not be enough to get the nitrite down low enough to where the bacteria start working. The bacteria will continue to breakdown the organics in the live sand. The One & Only bacteria are not dead but rather inhibited by the high nitrite. So you may have to change the water 3-4 times before the nitrite drops below 1 ppm and the bacteria kick-in.

 

Do not add any more ammonia until both the ammonia and nitrite are below 1 for 24 hours

"

[seabass]

Good to know.

[xilez]

Did my 20%ish water change, dont see much change in nitrite... Ill do another tomorrow if nothing changes

[brandon429]

What if live sand shows up with hardly any organics in tow...such that you can test caribsea live wet pack sand for inherent nitrate and find none? Dr tims guessed wrong imo

 

Stick an orp probe into the wet pack sand, or dump peroxide on it no foaming

 

It has amazingly little if any organics that's confusing of them to say

 

 

 

The bottle bac we add can produce it in suspension before depositions on the rocks and surfaces take over the job in correct balance, which is why in our cycle threads we only care about ammonia and a known time frame, and then every tank in our thread behaves the same depending on which kind of rock was used.

 

Most won't do that mode, throw out nitrite and quit testing for it, but wow do cycles streamline and all behave the same when we do. No problem if we continue basing this cycle around nitrite but that's exactly why cycles get confusing. Our cycle threads disregard nitrite and everyone complies by day 30 or less

[xilez]

I am not contesting your statement, I am simply going by what Dr Tims told me in my email. I just want to make sure I dont have a 3 month cycle.

[brandon429]

It's rather brash to accuse dr tims of being wrong that's agreed lol

 

Just nerding that's all

 

 

 

You added their bottle bac along with the ammonia right? It seems you'd have to have added the bottle bac to get any metabolite changes in only ten days. After 30 days of circulation and a few doses of bottle bac and ammonia you'll be able to pass the 1-2 ppm digested within 24 hours and be good to go, typically it's ready in three weeks or less off this boosted method

 

Your sandbed if it was the wet pack already has the ability to a small degree it's helpful seeding.