Cyano is kicking my butt- NO LONGER!- Now it is Hair Algae!

[uwharrie]

So my tank is 10 months old. 28 Biocube with Steves LEDs and media basket
2 fish
Started with well water but now RO
About 2 months ago I started with a cyano problem.
I let it go longer than I should but got proactive a couple weeks ago
Weekly 5 gal water changes. Feedin once every other day
Vacuum the sand bed and back chamber
Replaced chempure and now change floss weekly
Having an issue turkey basting the cyano but am blowing it off in hopes the filter gets it
How long does it take to beat this?

[freemandnj973]

What worked for me was a decent skimmer, replaced carbon and gfo 2x a week, vacuum out as much as possible with a 3 day lights out and hammered it with red slime remover as a final effort for another week without carbon. I've been cyano free for 3-4 months. But now battling dinos lol. Gotta love this hobby

Check your well water for silicate cause my dino issues started when i ran out of gfo while using well water for top off and water changes. So use gfo it binds silicate as well as phosphate and kept dino at bay with well water.

[NYfishies]

Do you dose anything (like carbon)?

 

Do you use Reef Roids by chance?

 

What are you NO3 and PO4 levels at?

 

It is my understanding that Cyano (bacteria) develops from an imbalance in your redfield ratio. (http://www.cyphos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29134 && http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00691729)

 

I am overcoming an outbreak which occurred during a week long vacation away from the tank. I dose Reef BioFuel (carbon) to bring balance to the cycle as Carbon was my limiting factor. Others may have PO4 as the limiting factor and deal with different algae blooms.

 

Together with the addition of Cerith and Nerite snails you will overcome it.

[brandon429]

we have cured 100% of cyano problems in nano reefs by simply cleaning out the entire system all at once, replacing the sandbed with a rinsed bed, and making sure the rock has no detritus post cleaning (using assessment tests for that) and making sure the white lighting balance isn't super strong during these challenge periods. every other form of address is bandaiding that all not occurring. how about a tuneup, takes about a few hours to beat cyano, unless we want the months long version. my tank has always been immune to cyano, lets make another~

[uwharrie]

Forgot to add I am running a skimmer phosphates are 0 ( but I understand the cyano may just be using it)

Ill add carbon and see if that helps.

The RO/DI water test 0 TDS ( 38 straight from tap)

[NYfishies]

we have cured 100% of cyano problems in nano reefs by simply cleaning out the entire system all at once, replacing the sandbed with a rinsed bed, and making sure the rock has no detritus post cleaning (using assessment tests for that) and making sure the white lighting balance isn't super strong during these challenge periods. every other form of address is bandaiding that all not occurring. how about a tuneup, takes about a few hours to beat cyano, unless we want the months long version. my tank has always been immune to cyano, lets make another~

 

This sounds like a HECK of a lot of work for anybody who has corals and a good amount of rock lol. Also sounds like a good way to start a fresh diatom bloom.

[Hexilios]

phosphates, gfo?

[brandon429]

http://reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-dinos-a-possible-cure-follow-along-and-see.253917/page-95#post-3138374

Your phosphates are located in the sandbed probably, test a sample of mud taken from its depths for nitrate and phosphate to help id the source of the nutrients fueling your cyano

that above shows how much people are willing to dose the water vs take full action, cuz their tanks are huge. Nanos shouldn't have this long drawn out process. My tank is immune to cyano, this really helps in factoring advice.

The sandbed here may be vacuumed but I predict it wont pass a drop test (pick up handful of sand underwater, drop down, if it clouds, there you go)

true cyano is very linked to po4 in the tank, somewhere, even if not in your water column. where they locate is a nice indicator...on your rocks? on your sandbed? on the tank glass (indicates water column presence which you said there is not)

its amazing how much its possible to trace out sources even without pics going off prior nanos only.

additionally this tank has already posted of the prob weeks ago, there's a persistent sink somewhere applicable for sure.

if this sandbed is truly clean, and the rocks have been assessed as not holding waste, then id look to white spectrum lighting imbalance next up. all of the work and clue hunting can be skipped at anytime however if someone wants to add some antibiotics, but that's cheatin' lol

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/374740-hammerstones-tank/page-9

a turnaround thread

[NYfishies]

Sorry I didn't mean to irritate you Brandon. I just look at my tank, full of sand, rock, fish and coral and what it would take to empty and start over. I just beat (in other words starved) Cyano dosing carbon. To each their own.

[Clown79]

Brandons right.

 

In my personal experience. I caught the cyano in the beginning stage and made changes in my tank. Nothing drastic but it worked.

 

In other cases, the tanks get over run by the cyano and the maintenance put into it is really just holding off the spreading but not erradicating the issue.

In these cases-a thorough cleaning is needed.

 

Don't blow the cyano with a turkey baster.

Change your floss every other day if not daily during cyano.

Clean out the filter too

 

 

Can you share a pic so we can see the condition. If its not taking over, some changes could erradicate it.

 

The first change - ditch the ro water and use distilled only. Ro is not pure, only ro/di and distilled is.

 

When you test phosphates, get some of your sand and put it in the water to be tested.

If you have any phos not being absorbed by the cyano - it'll be in the sand.

[Spec]

Chemi-clean, worked wonders for me. Only treated once and have been cyano free for a few months.

[brandon429]

everything I say is from the perspective of owning a reef that weighs 15 pounds when full and that makes all rip cleaning advise to large tankers seem justifiably easy to type vs implement heh

 

when I one day get a large reef I might have to pay someone to come implement these works if needed I couldn't give up a whole weekend to pull it off

[NYfishies]

everything I say is from the perspective of owning a reef that weighs 15 pounds when full and that makes all rip cleaning advise to large tankers seem justifiably easy to type vs implement heh

 

when I one day get a large reef I might have to pay someone to come implement these works if needed I couldn't give up a whole weekend to pull it off

 

Well now I agree with you! I have a PICO FW planted tank that I can essentially pick up and dump the water out for changes lol.

[anizato]

It can take a while, months. I suggest to start dosing Dr. Tim's Waste-Away and start with that, keep turkey basting the shit out of it and change your filter sock every time you fill it up. baste every day and for a like 20 minutes every time you do, make sure you are incessant and BLOW EVERYWHERE, stir the sand, emulate a storm every day until that bitch cyano is gone. Be anal about changing your filter socks every time they get filled (practically every day/every time you baste).

Maybe do a large water change 80% after 2 months of doing this every day + regular water changes you are doing.

[klabuckeye]

If all of your parameters are testing within range, it could be that your lights are too intense and encouraging excess algae growth. I experienced recurring cyano after increasing my red/orange spectrum in particular. Took a minute to realize this was the cause, but after adjusting the light settings it has not returned.

[uwharrie]

My water is RO/Di . So if I tear down can I reuse the existing sand if well rinsed?

Rock as well if rinsed?

this tank just went along fine till I added the controller to the lights. Seems I may have too much though only running at 20% ( Steves LEDS)

Issues started with the controller and high Kh. got the Kh under control and now this.

 

Just did a phosphate test from the sandbed between .25 and .50. Looks like I found part of the issue
So can I reuse the sandbed if I rinse well or do I need to start over?

 

Looks pretty damn bad to me!

UGH!!!

[brandon429]

I want that 100% if possible UW in our thread, your tank is ideal ideal for this

http://reef2reef.com/threads/the-official-sand-rinse-thread-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

 

that thread will save your tanks life. not my constant yapping, but others doing this very upcoming job. you can see variables they crossed before you do the job. your live rock is wonderful quality all we need is a full rip cleaning and your tank will look and behave brand new.

 

Its worth 1 hr time to read that thread and the linked threads, see their variables first and yours w be 100% rebooted within 2 hours of when you start. There are grazers in the wild that eat cyano as it blankets and tries to compete; we are missing those in nanos most often and we typically have sandbeds that need to be cleaned out so very simple, no dilutions in our favor

 

*the fact that is not GHA gives you the upper hand massive, this tank is easy to fix taking no delay at all, these invaders be they spirulina or cyanos it doesn't matter are not heldfast onto the rock, its a blanketing and this technique above addresses that immediately.

 

When you reset up your tank, expect to clean more detritus again later in the week as the unplugged rocks began to purge, which is good. this is a *guiding* process starting with a rip clean, its not one off, and you will love the results. Be mean to that sandbed; id do all new for sure cuz its so cheap, but even if you want that just tap water + peroxide rinse it.

 

Id replace it, since its sat among measurable po4 which can bind into substrates for bacterial re-release later, per RHF articles

 

If you consider doing a rip change id so enjoy linking your tank back up for the next person, you have real potential in those pics.

 

You'll be left with only purple aged live rock, healthy animals, brand new sparkling sand that cannot cloud because it was pre rinsed so meanly, and that reef will comply fast. Lucky for nanos we have access, them large tankers would take till 2017 to get half the results by never addressing nutrient stores over fear of loss of bacteria.

 

The simplicity of your job is you are simply parting out the tank in correct order so that sensitives are never exposed to waste detritus, cleaning 100% of things outside the tank, vinegar or peroxide clean all the piping, insides of the tank like new, putting it back together and the ability of the live rock as a filter doesn't change one iota and whatever you did with the sand doesn't matter because it didn't change one iota.

 

The only way you can go wrong is not rinsing mean enough, and putting waste back in the tank somehow whether from uncleaned rocks or from partial sandbed work, which is why a full bed change out using caribsea wet pack sand, rinsed heavily, is ideal and cheap.

 

itll be brand new reef yet aged, literally that, instantly after correction.

[stash98]

For future preventative measures you may want to consider :

 

RO/DI water

Vaccum portions of the sand bed each WC

Change floss more than every week - every 3-4 days

[uwharrie]

I am using RO/DI water ( though did not start with it)

I do vacuum every part of the sandbed I can reach with each waterchange

I was not changing the floss that often

Part of the issue came about ( I think) as I was running the tank "too clean"

All of my corals with the exception of GSP and mushrooms ( and the Kenya tree) died out

It appears I quickly swung in the opposite direction

[uwharrie]

Thanks Brandon429. Looks like as soon as I have the time I will be replacing the sand bed and cleaning all the rock up.

[brandon429]

It's a big deal move so glad you might consider. It is reef surgery in every way for sure, where the detritus and it's mid-rot waste is literally your only risk...brainstorming how to separate that from the delicates is the whole deal and zero surprises happen given all basic procedural controls, the biology is rock solid.

 

 

 

A neat way to see the separation biology in my opinion is that we are addressing nutrient sinks yet your corals need addressed via suspended undegraded proteins. Viewing nutrients as non separate makes both sides uneasy to balance but they are easy

 

It's aggressive cleaning, aggressive feeding and export if you want to drive corals and be algae free. Work. Cruise mode follows work mode so you don't lose corals as you address nutrient sinks, which do not support corals the sinks support blanketing benthic invaders that's why they colonize right on the nutrient stashes caches

 

When proteins are not broken down, they contain all the N and P unavailable to invaders, high suspended whole bugs/animals/planktors don't produce free po4 until they are broken down, and that should be in a coral, fish, or invert gut not by bacteria in the water. In the sandbed we can prove two things:

 

-It likely tests higher in N and P wastes compared to the water above it, siphon a bottom sample and test it after it sits for three hours in the cup (aerobes+oxygen blast+proteins waste degraded is big waste after a few hours) this shows your nutrient sink before you rip things apart.

 

-if you reach into the tank and grab a handful of sand right now and drop it down, how big is the nuke cloud?

 

At my 6inch sandbeds dirtiest, it's lightly cloudy. The reason my pico reef is older than any other is solely for treating it like a fringing ejecting reef model commonly, not the slow turtle grass detritus grabbing zone. I don't have enough dilution for that.

 

 

I did my tank tuning in 2010 as of 6 yrs it just cruises and I slack off on things and stay gone on mountains a lot. The system is in cruise mode because I took time to repeatedly reject, via work, any untoward DNA's from my tank the leftover DNA is now all coralline, sps Lps bugs and such, all goodies. I never have to use peroxide to scrub algae, I use it to blast clean my sandbed for fresh starts about 2x annually

[uwharrie]

So I am trying to sort through all this. Including reading the other forum. I need clear guidance

So is this what I need to do

1 remove rock and blow off all the detritus I can

2 remove livestock to safe location using current tank water

3 remove and thoroughly rinse the sand. Fresh water fine? Just re rinse with salt

4 Clean tank and back chambers

5 put it all back

 

Can I reuse the tank water?

[uwharrie]

So please folks will it be ok to do what I listed above? I will be leaving for 10 days next weekend and do not want to leave this mess for Hubby to try and control. I can do a teardown and clean this weekend. Just wanted to know if I am on the right path. especially with reusing the water and sand?

[Glitchfish]

My water is RO/Di . So if I tear down can I reuse the existing sand if well rinsed?

Rock as well if rinsed?

this tank just went along fine till I added the controller to the lights. Seems I may have too much though only running at 20% ( Steves LEDS)

Issues started with the controller and high Kh. got the Kh under control and now this.

 

Just did a phosphate test from the sandbed between .25 and .50. Looks like I found part of the issue

So can I reuse the sandbed if I rinse well or do I need to start over?

 

Looks pretty damn bad to me!

 

UGH!!!

I was in exactly the same situation for atleast half a year and you can get through this! Just keep cleaning all your powerheads, syphoning every inch of the rocks, sand and check your RO-RO/DI TDS, Nitrate and Phosphate levels! Just keep cleaning and you'll get out of this! Do you run biopellets? if so do you run rowaphos? The biopellets could be removing so much phosphate and nitrate that the rowaphos is causing an imbalance! Happened in my aquarium ! Now i just run biopellets and wet skim! Change my filter floss whenever it's brown and have carbon in the reactor from where the rowaphos was! Also look into your lighting schedule and intensity ! It could be on for too long or too strong. Also direct sunlight can be a big factor!

 

A tip whilst tricky is to get a bit of airline tubing, turn all powerheads off etc, get a turkey baster and blast small sections of the rock at a time and suck the cyano whilst it's floating in the water, but you must get every little bit! Oh also i change 50 litres a day on my 220 litre system so maybe more water removal for fresh saltwater will help !

 

Oh and keep everything in balance, Cyano loves imbalance! Sorry if it's all a mess! Just be persistent and you can make it through! It may seem like forever but you can make it! Took me six months and i'm finally out of the woods!

 

You can check my feed with my situation if it's of any assistance: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/375586-anyone-out-there-that-can-lift-my-spirits/#entry5370040

 

But as a recap:

 

Check your RO-RO/DI water for TDS, NItrate, Phosphates and other organics

If you're running Biopellets, consider removing rowaphos incase of imbalance between Nitrates and Phosphates

Patience is key, keep with it! Syphon the rocks and sand etc!

Maintain filters regulary (Which you probably do)

Keep everything in balance!

Lighting intensity and timeframe!

Bigger water changes !

Clean all powerheads, nozzles,impellers and pumps ! They're dirtier than you think!

Oh and flow! Look into higher flow if you don't have much! I run two vortechs and a tunze nanostream 2025 X)! So much flow!

[fishfreak0114]

If your keeping tank water, take out what you want to re use before you disturb the sand bed. Make sure you scrub the rocks and rinse them in sw before putting them back. I think you could re use the sand of you rinse it REALLY well, though new rinsed sand would be easier (I think). Good luck