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Draogonets (Yes. First time topic title)


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I'm brand new to reefing. I know that dragonets are really beautiful fish, but I'm just wondering what draws people into keeping a fish that has had difficulty surviving in nano environments, for so long?

 

I've read many of stories of death, and I haven't read many stories of long living fish. Most of the time it's a thread started, then a fish is purchased, and then the author drops off the map.

 

I'm not trying to be rude by any means. I'm just wondering why are people so passionate about keeping these fish that would have no difficulty surviving if you just provided a reef that where pods could self sustain.

 

Personality? Coloration? The challenge of training and thriving in a reef that isn't ideal?

 

The two most common topics of conversation I have seen on these boards are A. Hair Algae and B. Dragonets. Just an observation.

 

 

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Hey, TY for that question. As u may be aware, I just posted our Thoughts about getting 1.

There have been quite a few very good replies.

I can't answer the question for others, but, for Shar and I, It definitely is about the coloration.

I also like it's personality that I have observed at our LFS.

I did a lot of researching regarding the mandarin. I am fully aware of the challenge, and tbh, I am not in it for the

challenge.

I have seen some members posting here that they have had success with them. That gives me hope, anyways.

IF we do get 1, I certainly will post updates. Good and hopefully not bad.

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I believe it is the beauty of the fish that draws people in. There aren't too many comparable fish out there that match the flashy coloration of the dragonets. Unfortunately, I think many people think that they will be able to provide what they need to thrive in a tank and overlook how difficult it may actually be. If you look through photos, there are many photos of mandys with shrunken, concave stomachs, a sure sign of starvation. If you can get one already trained on frozen, I think chances are better at keeping them happy.

 

It's kind of like carnation tree corals! They re so beautiful and colorful and a complete b!tch to keep alive :) but many try (me included) because of their coloration and the pop they can add to a tank.

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I believe it is the beauty of the fish that draws people in. There aren't too many comparable fish out there that match the flashy coloration of the dragonets. Unfortunately, I think many people think that they will be able to provide what they need to thrive in a tank and overlook how difficult it may actually be. If you look through photos, there are many photos of mandys with shrunken, concave stomachs, a sure sign of starvation. If you can get one already trained on frozen, I think chances are better at keeping them happy.

 

It's kind of like carnation tree corals! They re so beautiful and colorful and a complete b!tch to keep alive :) but many try (me included) because of their coloration and the pop they can add to a tank.

I totally agree with ya Stella. And I do fit into that category. I was Hoping that I would "be able to provide what they need to thrive".

Sadly, I also fit into this..."overlook how difficult it may actually be". I got myself into a mindset of having 1. I guess u could say "1 Track Mind".

Thankfully with many replies in my Mandarin thread, I have concluded that this fish is not an option for us.

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I feel they can thrive in nano environments (possibly even more so than in larger tanks due to easy spot feeding options), provided the hobbyist is prepared to design & run the tank around their specific needs and accept the stocking restrictions that said fish imposes. I've kept a striped splendidus and a ruby moyeri/morrissoni over the past three years and can trace exactly where I've triumphed and failed:

 

1. The striped did magnificently for well over a year... until Nutramar vanished from the US market. I could never get her to accept any food other than that, at least not in a volume that could sustain her. And that list of trials was extensive. I swear it was the $30 fish that cost a fortune.

 

2. The ruby was a night & day different experience - ate almost any sub-.5mm sized food he encountered within a few feedings and very active in the display tank, if admittedly very camera shy. Steadily become bolder as he grew over 7 months. Then I added a couple of pom-pom crabs that later turned out to be packing Hawaiian death-nems. Poor fish got stuck in a clump of macroalgae and couldn't get away from the crab; was stung repeatedly and died in the middle of a feeding.

 

But I still think it's a gorgeous fish & a great option IF you can resist the nano-reefer's urge to cram any/everything that can fit into a small volume of water. Personally - I've made both mistakes at one time or another. May try again after a break.

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I have one male mandarin in my seahorse tank. It's a 40B and he's been in there since basically the beginning, maybe 9 months. Fortunately he came eating frozen food, but I also replenish my copepod stock every now and then.

 

 

He's gotten more friendly recently actually.

 

And you have to admit their coloration is unlike any other species of animal out there.

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No doubt they are a one of a kind species. The post by Astinus definitely was the one that got me thinking. Just interested in the draw. All makes sense to me.

 

Working with my 14 biocube currently and thinking about converting my 125 later down the road of the 14 continues to be successful. Than I think I'll add a ruby red to the mix. Awesome fish for sure.

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I'd love a Mandarin, starfish, or seahorse but I leave them alone.

 

I understand the difficulties and negatives of attempting to house them

 

I tried a carnation coral like Stella mentioned, it was stunning!

 

didn't know its one of the most difficult corals to keep with an average 1 yr lifespan in tanks, it was my first and last impulse buy.

 

I returned it to the store.

 

 

I feel for myself personally, irresponsible trying to keep anything which should be kept in the ocean.

By not trying I miss out on some AWESOME animals but if more ppl didn't attempt things like Mandarins- stores would stop selling them, they'd stay in the ocean, and less would die from starvation.

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I think the coloration and personality, swimming pattern, etc are all factors. Then you run into the different types of people that purchase them.

 

Some have done the research and come fully prepared to spend hundreds a month on seeding pods into the system, or plumb huge sumps and refugiums into the system, or only purchase mandarins already eating frozen. And of those people, some can successfully keep spawning pairs. Some mandarins still slowly starve, some arrive sick, and sometimes it's just the way the fish was caught that causes longer-lasting damage.

 

There will always be the people who just don't know better, and don't realize that they don't. Who saw a pretty fish and didn't come into their LFS after having done research. And of those, some will realize their mistake and either return the fish or make themselves prepared to house it. But some will watch their fish refuse to eat, won't realize they have a community they can pose their questions to, and just shrug it off. Maybe even try again.

 

I had a mandarin that I purchased from a totally irresponsible LFS in my college town. I saw a pretty fish, I was maybe 19 or 20 and just got my NC28 set up, and nobody asked questions. I got home, acclimated the fish, watched him peck at the rocks, and then realized his stomach looked thin. Then I did research, I bought every frozen food I could think of and a netted in-tank container, and tried desperately to get the little guy to eat something else. And he'd peck, and some days he was less skinny, but he basically took months to starve. Never again did I buy a fish without doing the research first.

 

It happens. Why do people purchase scottish fold kittens only to find that yeah, the genetic marker that makes their ears fold actually translates into all of their joints being weak, and the cat being in pain most of its life? We're human, we like cute things, and there's demand.

 

And to the people who successfully keep mandarins: Kudos. If the oceans keep getting wiped out, you guys may be their only hope. :)

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A have red and black scooter dragonet i 3 tanks and i have had them for years no problem but the other dragonet like lsd and madarin i know notthing about.

 

Are you thinking of a specific dragonet?

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I personally wasn't thinking of any one specific dragonet. It just seemed like after all the discussions that I had read, that it was a very difficult fish to keep, and most, if not all topics never really had a conclusion after the fish had been introduced. Specifically, an update maybe a year or two down the line. Not days or weeks later.

 

Thanks for all the responses.

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This is basically what happened to me. I got into the hobby around when I registered here, so like 2 years. Seahorses were what initially drew me into the hobby for real, but really never considered them for the same reasons you hear. I would definitely recommend starting off small and easy to begin with, but you can see from my own tank having happy seahorse and mandarins aren't as scary as it seems. Hopefully these guys do good in the future thou! This is a pretty well established tank though, and I didn't put those guys in it until coralline algae started showing up, etc.

I personally wasn't thinking of any one specific dragonet. It just seemed like after all the discussions that I had read, that it was a very difficult fish to keep, and most, if not all topics never really had a conclusion after the fish had been introduced. Specifically, an update maybe a year or two down the line. Not days or weeks later.

 

Thanks for all the responses.

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I absolutely love dragonets, specifically mandarins. I love the color, the way they swim, how their eyes independently move, and almost everything about them. I've had a male mandarin for a little more than 3 years and a female for about 8 months. Aside from them not getting along for some strange reason, they are both doing great.

 

I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding about them. Some people think if they have enough live rock they don't have to worry about feeding them, and that's why so many starve in home tanks. Keeping them in a smaller tank can actually be beneficial in my opinion because if you are feeding them, frozen or pellets, a nano can make it easier to spot feed them. Here are actually a couple of articles I've written about them:

 

 

http://www.fishstoresnearme.com/articles/6g-reef-tank/- Mandarin information is about halfway down

 

http://www.fishstoresnearme.com/articles/mandarinpellettraining/- General information about pellet training

 

http://www.fishstoresnearme.com/articles/mandarin-fish-pellet-training-new-method/- Different method for pellet training that worked better for me

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HI!

I have a Biocube 29 and have a Mandarin- "Picassa" has been in my tank for 2 months. I am not an expert nor know what I am doing most of the time. I purchased because my tank had been fallow for almost 3 months and I thought it would keep her happy and busy(I refer to Picassa as a "her"- She is a work of art).

 

Once Picassa was home I started doing a lot of research and found that pods would be quickly depleted. I stressed and began supplementing. I purchase pods from Algae Barn via Amazon and dose my tank weekly. Thus far Picassa seems happy. I do work from home and watch on a regular basis. I probably over dump pods but I just love seeing her out and about. Once per week, I turn the lights and pump off, wait about 30 minutes and then pour pods in.

 

Since her arrival she has become less shy and comes to the front of the tank often when I sit down. My toddlers scare her a bit but she is becoming more accustomed and doesn't seem as scared.

Like you, I haven't seen many success stories and would be happy to post monthly to let you know.

I have chosen not to attempt to "train" Picassa rather make certain I am giving the natural food source.

 

That said it is very expensive. I spend approximately 60 dollars per month ordering Pods.

I realize 2 months is nothing to brag about- My hope is to continue ordering pods to keep her happy!

 

With regards to your question, the Mandarin was the first fish I saw at my LFS and said to myself- Is it possible for a fish that beautiful to live happily in my home?? My littles refer to her as Fluttershy, a My Little Pony who has wings similar to the way she flutters.

 

I will not purchase another. My two clowns are captive bred and I will continue with captive moving forward. My hope is to give Picassa a long and happy life with lots of Pods!

If you would like, I will keep you posted!

Best,

Marianne

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Picassa is beautiful, but she is thin. You should not be able to see her ribs. Since you are often near her tank, training her to eat frozen could be an enjoyable project, and there are great resources on here to help you help her. I would love for my Jimi to have a totally "natural" diet of pods, but I know in my 29 that is just not possible.

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I just asked my LFS (he had a mandarin for 14years) and he says the scooters eat all pods and some flatworms but a mandarin will only eat some select pods and that is why mandarin and lsd are so hard to keep but now in this time of age we can get livefood send too the front door it should not be a problem

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I just asked my LFS (he had a mandarin for 14years) and he says the scooters eat all pods and some flatworms but a mandarin will only eat some select pods and that is why mandarin and lsd are so hard to keep but now in this time of age we can get livefood send too the front door it should not be a problem

Did he say what type of live food to send?

Picassa is beautiful, but she is thin. You should not be able to see her ribs. Since you are often near her tank, training her to eat frozen could be an enjoyable project, and there are great resources on here to help you help her. I would love for my Jimi to have a totally "natural" diet of pods, but I know in my 29 that is just not possible.

I totally agree! Funny sidenote, these pictures are actually from about a month ago. I thought she looked thin too and have been dumping tons of pods. I am still worried and think I am going to have to start training. Have you found any food your Jimi really likes? I am 100% devoted to keeping her happy and want to plump her up more. I have been reading various articles but can't seem to find a food they really like. Thanks SO much for you help, it is greatly appreciated!!

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Thanks for the write ups CoolGuy.

 

I'd like to hear about how hear how the continued store of Picassa. Hopefully she will be fat and happy for a long time.

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Since this thread and my post I have been STRESSING about Picassa - As I mentioned I would not purchase one again for my size tank and wish my LFS hadn't said she would be fine. I know I have to place the blame directly on myself. As responsible aquarists it is our job to make certain we pick livestock well suited for our tank. My tank was crawling and to be honest it gave me the creeps. It was so full of critters the sand and rock was covered. I really thought the amount of pods would sustain her and adding weekly would keep the tank full and reproducing at a steady rate.

 

Today I made a trip to a specialty store that is primarily a custom tank facility. They do have a showroom and OMG it was so fancy and beautiful I wanted to move in. I spoke with the manager about my issue (I also have a Clown problem). He gave me the advice to try Reef Cavier and I purchased. Watching me try to feed her would have been a youtube fail- hands shaking, baster all over the place, and most certainly my tongue out in concentration(My mom and daughter do the same!). I was so proud of her- She didn't get scared by the Baster but didn't seem interested in the food. The rest of my tank was thrilled!

 

I am going to continue daily but not sure what I am doing. I am watching the other videos I have seen but it is so confusing. I bought another bottle of pods today to dump tonight and ordering a 5,000. I know the pods are not cost efficient. My goal is to keep her pod happy and work on supplementing food!

 

Definitely will keep this thread posted. We all have a love of the beautiful species!

 

Best,

Marianne

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at the rate of pods you're purchasing, it would be cheaper to upgrade to a larger tank that can support your mandarin.

the only frozen my mandarin eats is pe mysis, and that's 1 out of every 3 tries. nothing else has been touched, except for some fish eggs here and there.

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my Target feeds on PE mysis that's 3 times bigger than the regular mysis shrimp size.

 

I buy a small bag of live copepods and live mysis every week but i think the mysis is too big for a mandarin.

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Sorry it took so long - our dog is in ICU and the grandbaby is here for the weekend. The only mysis Jimi eats are the Hikari PE mysis - they are much smaller than the regular ones. I also chop finer some LRS Reef Frenzy and he loves that as well.

Thought I had lost him today - didn't see him in the biocube anywhere. The little scudder had somehow jumped into the back return chamber! Got him back into the tank and he ate like a champ.

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Sorry it took so long - our dog is in ICU and the grandbaby is here for the weekend. The only mysis Jimi eats are the Hikari PE mysis - they are much smaller than the regular ones. I also chop finer some LRS Reef Frenzy and he loves that as well.

Thought I had lost him today - didn't see him in the biocube anywhere. The little scudder had somehow jumped into the back return chamber! Got him back into the tank and he ate like a champ.

Oh gosh I am so sorry about your dog :-( I hope he/she is going to be alright. I have been in your spot and it is horrible. Thanks for the tip on the food- I had a Goby in the beginning and would constantly jump in the back chamber. The first time he was back there for a few days, I thought he had died and just couldn't find him. Out of nowhere he put is face in the window as if so say "helloooo" - Jumped in the net and chowed for an hour.

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