Thought I had marine ich, now looks to be Brooklynella. Treatment options?!

[stellarsjay]

Yikes!! Help!

 

I don't have any formalin (formaldehyde) handy to me (Canada). Pet stores don't seem to carry it or perhaps I am looking in the wrong places. What are the products you folks would recommend?

 

I have seen products that have formaldehyde in it (Ich-X?), along with other ingredients such as malachite. Will this suffice for now?

 

I can order some formalin but it won't be in until Monday or Tue.

 

What do I do? I am furiously researching this and maybe all I can do is try a freshwater dip and switch him to a new QT???

 

Will hypo help? Some sources say yes while most say no.

 

He lost some appetite today.

 

This morning I notice the texture of his skin especially dorsally is a little rough and to me looks like the beginning of tell-tale mucous/slime coat symptoms like you see with Brook, so I'm expecting the worst.

 

He pretty much swims under the flow of the filter and won't move from there, though swimming actively but also breathing rapidly (not labored or taking big gulps). I've had an air stone in with him this whole time.

 

Sorry to spam up this page with my woes! I will keep reading up and will head out now to see what I can possibly find for meds.

 

Would the above mentioned product be okay as a first line of defense? What about a strong antibiotic (erythromycin?) on board? Or nothing but fw dip for now and switch to clean QT?

 

Ahh!

[stellarsjay]

In fact it could be velvet. Found an article on reef2reef and it sounds like it exactly -- down to swimming into the (hang on back) filter flow.

 

At this point going to do a freshwater dip and try to find a good formalin product but will settle for ich-x if it is all I can find.

 

If I can find a copper product and wide spec antibiotic I'm going to grab them to have on hand as well.

 

Cross your fingers, guys! Amazing the time, money, and effort we put into a single fish. :'(

[stellarsjay]

Photos

 

Ich ? :( https://imgur.com/gallery/rXvom

[Newstead]

How's he doing today?

[stellarsjay]

Check out the photos (if the link works). Woke up today and he's covered in ich-like spots again. Yesterday he looked and acted great, and although he is covered in these larger spots he is still swimming around like a happy little fish, though he must be distressed. :'(

 

Maybe the velvet-looking spots I was seeing yesterday were the adults attached and now they are growing into the cysts? Maybe that's totally backwards. I need to keep reading and get them straight!

 

Anyways... I'm waiting for my copper and copper test to come in (Tue) so basically trying to keep him alive and ease his stress and discomfort as much as possible. I did a fw dip yesterday and it seemed to help with spots on his fins. I actually started Ich-X (malachite green and formaldehyde) yesterday as it was all I could get and debating whether to dose it again today or transfer him to another tank.

 

I do have an antibiotic on hand (BiFuran). Also Prazipro, Melafix, Pimafix, and awaiting Cupramine.

 

Sorry to be a bother with my bummer situation, guys! Any and all advice welcome.

[Newstead]

Sounds like you are doing everything you can. I would add Selcon or some vitamin supplement to his food if you can just to build his strength and bolster his own immunity while he is being treated. Good luck and keep us updated!

[stellarsjay]

And now all of the spots (he was covered, including his head) are gone but maybe one.

 

What?!

 

Is this normal for ich?

 

I have another tank warming up for him that I'll transfer him to.

 

He lost his appetite, no doubt. I wonder if I should dose his antibiotic and at least have that on board?

[Newstead]

Scared to give advice since I have never dealt with ich (YET ) but I have dealt with medicating my clowns for what we thought was a parasitic , then bacterial, then fungal, lesion. Sadly, best guess from a fish vet after we tried everything is that it is an ulcerating tumor on her face. She is still with us, a year after it began, but the tumor now covers half of her face from eye to mouth. As long as she is still eating and swimming we are ok with her Elephant Man looks - she and her mate are 4 1/2 years old now and were our first saltwater fish.

My point (I did have one before digressing) is that when we would start her on a new med her appetite would decrease for a day or two. The Selcon seemed to help with that and when she would refuse her pellets sometimes she would accept mysis. Keep a close eye on ammonia levels in QT abd have water and Prime ready for a change if levels go up. We use an ammonia badge on the QT and would also check it with tests.

[stellarsjay]

That's too bad! Hopefully it just looks worse than it actually is to the fish. It's hard watching clowns go through tough times. They are so cute and swim so happily that it kills me to see them distressed

 

So I'm back to thinking now that it's ich and we're in a second round of the cycle (!!!!!!). I'm just going to go ahead with TTM for now and hopefully that will give him some relief from the parasites and hopefully not stress him out too much with the moving around. Perhaps he responds well to TTM and the Cupramine won't be needed come Tue/Wed...

 

Have lots of Prime on hand and will keep an eye on water quality. I've been obsessing over this little guy since he came in last week -- luckily I had these past two weeks off from work, but that time pretty much went to this clown.

 

I don't think it's Brook (he'd be dead) and probably not velvet, though still possible (he would decline rapidly? probably be dead), so it has to be ich... What fooled me is how fast the cycle happens. I did not expect the spots to show up within hours and only last for 8 hours, then disappear after 2 hours (~10-12 hours total of visible spots). Mind is boggled.

 

I can't think of much else to do at this point but to care for him and watch stress levels. I transferred him this morning and he's swimming about. I may hold off on antibiotics until I can see any lesions/sores or any other such changes. Would a product like StressGuard be of any use here?

 

Thanks for following along guys! It helps a lot just to blab it all out on here omgomgomg

 

What I have learned: absolutely, positively, without a doubt, 100% quarantine new fish. Ultimately you'll save time, money and an emotional roller coaster for you and the poor fish.

 

I have also learned: have some non-readily-available meds on hand. For real. They are usually dated to last 3 to 4 years (who knows for sure though) and it's best to spend the $20 to $30 to have a couple of bottles ready to grab when you need it. Newbie problemz.

[Newstead]

 

What I have learned: absolutely, positively, without a doubt, 100% quarantine new fish. Ultimately you'll save time, money and an emotional roller coaster for you and the poor fish.

 

I have also learned: have some non-readily-available meds on hand. For real. They are usually dated to last 3 to 4 years (who knows for sure though) and it's best to spend the $20 to $30 to have a couple of bottles ready to grab when you need it. Newbie problemz.

You nailed it. Took me 3 years to learn that, esp about keeping meds on hand. Keeping fingers crossed for your guy!

[Tamberav]

That's too bad! Hopefully it just looks worse than it actually is to the fish. It's hard watching clowns go through tough times. They are so cute and swim so happily that it kills me to see them distressed

 

So I'm back to thinking now that it's ich and we're in a second round of the cycle (!!!!!!). I'm just going to go ahead with TTM for now and hopefully that will give him some relief from the parasites and hopefully not stress him out too much with the moving around. Perhaps he responds well to TTM and the Cupramine won't be needed come Tue/Wed...

 

Have lots of Prime on hand and will keep an eye on water quality. I've been obsessing over this little guy since he came in last week -- luckily I had these past two weeks off from work, but that time pretty much went to this clown.

 

I don't think it's Brook (he'd be dead) and probably not velvet, though still possible (he would decline rapidly? probably be dead), so it has to be ich... What fooled me is how fast the cycle happens. I did not expect the spots to show up within hours and only last for 8 hours, then disappear after 2 hours (~10-12 hours total of visible spots). Mind is boggled.

 

I can't think of much else to do at this point but to care for him and watch stress levels. I transferred him this morning and he's swimming about. I may hold off on antibiotics until I can see any lesions/sores or any other such changes. Would a product like StressGuard be of any use here?

 

Thanks for following along guys! It helps a lot just to blab it all out on here omgomgomg

 

What I have learned: absolutely, positively, without a doubt, 100% quarantine new fish. Ultimately you'll save time, money and an emotional roller coaster for you and the poor fish.

 

I have also learned: have some non-readily-available meds on hand. For real. They are usually dated to last 3 to 4 years (who knows for sure though) and it's best to spend the $20 to $30 to have a couple of bottles ready to grab when you need it. Newbie problemz.

 

Buy some CP to have on hand, its especially useful because when you don't know what disease it is, it pretty much treats all of them so no guesswork. It looks like ebay sellers ship to Canada.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chloroquine-Phosphate-Treats-marine-ich-velvet-brook-/231636780028

 

This is where I get mine from, perhaps they also ship to Canada, not sure.

 

http://kmaintl.com/product/chloroquine-20gal-dose

 

 

It doesn't quiet look like ich to me but hard to say if its the slime coat effecting the spots. Looks more like velvet to me but I can't be certain.

 

Both ich and velvet fall off the fish I believe during its cycle only to come back worse (velvet completes this cycle faster). Both can be treated with Chloroquine Phosphate or copper, so you don't really need the right diagnosis between those two. Can you get ahold of Cupramine locally there at all?

 

https://www.amazon.ca/Seachem-67105660-Cupramine-Copper-250ml/dp/B0002A5X6Y

 

You will also want he copper test kit:

 

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0002A5XGO/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3/166-8447230-5552209?pf_rd_m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=WP53C4NAGNWQCE9MJDPD&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1977604522&pf_rd_i=B0002A5X6Y

 

 

CP is better but since you have to wait for shipping, Copper will have to do if you can get it.

 

Both ich and velvet are photosynthetic so turning the lights off may help slow it down.

[stellarsjay]

Thanks Tamberav. He's just chilling in his container now. The harsh salt grain spots had fallen off as per my last update and he was looking mostly clear. He is now getting more back. I simply can't fathom how fast this is happening. I thought it took days to weeks for a cycle and this happens within hours or just 1 day. Unreal. He will be mostly cleared and then totally covered in tiny white spots. His appetite picked up today though, again, and he ate 3 NLS Thera A pellets, crushed.

 

So I ordered copper + test kit and rushed it but won't be here until Tue. Just trying to keep him alive and well enough until I can start treatment. I have transferred tanks 3 times but doesn't seem to be working, hence NO break in the spots re-appearing (the whole point of TTM is to slow things down and ultimately break the cycle?). Anyways. That's not working so I'm going to try another freshwater dip. The spots are back but not at their largest, but when I wake up tomorrow I know they will be.

 

Agh. Leaning towards doing a freshwater dip to see if that helps. Thanks for hearing me out! Cringing at how awful of a pet owner I sound like, putting the fish through all of this. I am trying! I get so attached to these things, it's the worst...

[Tamberav]

Thanks Tamberav. He's just chilling in his container now. The harsh salt grain spots had fallen off as per my last update and he was looking mostly clear. He is now getting more back. I simply can't fathom how fast this is happening. I thought it took days to weeks for a cycle and this happens within hours or just 1 day. Unreal. He will be mostly cleared and then totally covered in tiny white spots. His appetite picked up today though, again, and he ate 3 NLS Thera A pellets, crushed.

 

So I ordered copper + test kit and rushed it but won't be here until Tue. Just trying to keep him alive and well enough until I can start treatment. I have transferred tanks 3 times but doesn't seem to be working, hence NO break in the spots re-appearing (the whole point of TTM is to slow things down and ultimately break the cycle?). Anyways. That's not working so I'm going to try another freshwater dip. The spots are back but not at their largest, but when I wake up tomorrow I know they will be.

 

Agh. Leaning towards doing a freshwater dip to see if that helps. Thanks for hearing me out! Cringing at how awful of a pet owner I sound like, putting the fish through all of this. I am trying! I get so attached to these things, it's the worst...

 

Tank transfer does not treat velvet and velvet cycles a lot faster than ich.

 

So sounds like velvet?

 

Freshwater dips will help bring relief to try and keep him going till the meds work.

[stellarsjay]

It's gotta be velvet ???!!!

He had dropped the spots yesterday, cleared up a bit, and is now covered in spots yet again. I cannot believe this 3/4 inch clown has persisted this far. I hate myself for not having the meds on hand.

 

On the bright side, my copper came in today! A day early. Awesome. I hope he's still alive when I go home in about an hour and will get started A.S.A.P. ! I wonder if there is any reason why I can't dose his copper treatments while he is in a clear plastic tub? I know plastic is porous and worry about absorption, but can monitor with testing.. I have a glass QT but it's not "sterile" or totally dry yet.

 

He made it through the dip last night just fine, and really seemed to perk up a bit. After the dip I put him in a new/clean QT to try to eliminate some of the bugs or at least slow it down, but by this morning they were full force again. I just don't get it

[stellarsjay]

So the fish looks great right now. He ate 2 NLS Thera A 1mm pellets and is swimming just like a happy clown should. The spots from this morning are gone and I just dosed his first round of Cupramine. Because he's in a plastic 19L container I had to calculate volume. I only have it ~12L (~3.2g) full, I just dosed 5 drops... rounding down to be on the "safe" side, since I'm averaging the volume. Apparently I'm supposes to dose the same in 48 hrs. Will test tomorrow and see if it's dropped.

 

The only fear now is overdosing. I have the Seachem copper test, which isn't the *best* but should suffice. I find the powder step to be a little funny and worry that may throw my results a bit. As far as I can tell, we have 0.5mg/L... which is what is instructed. It actually looks more like 0.4 but matches the 0.5 reference, so, I'll settle with that for now.

 

You guys must be crossing your fingers because he looks good!