(PICS) Help me please. I need help with my continuous gelidium outbreak

[evan127]

I'm at a loss and need some help. I am 98% I have an outbreak of gelidium that I've been battling with for a few months. Before I go any further, here is the important stuff everyone asks about.

On average, over the last 3 months;
dKh - 8.5
Ca - 450
Mg - 1380
NO3 - 0
PO4 - 0.00
Photoperiod with Gen 3 Pro is AB+ for 8 hours at 65% with wide angle lenses
I wet skim 24hrs.
GFO - 10 tbsp
No filter socks
5 gallon WC weekly with HWmarine

So, I'm at a complete loss. I've recently added a pincushion urchin because I've run out of ideas and options short of drying out rock and sand. I've done 2 blackouts now for 3 days and am currently on my third blackout. I peeked in the tank this morning and it looks like there is more algae. It's very discouraging. I'm worried it will over grow all my sps frags.

Any help would be vastly appreciated.

[seabass]

I always question 0.00ppm phosphate, but that's probably not the problem anyway.

 

The urchin might help. You might also try turbo snails and an emerald crab. I'd also manually remove as much as you can (using a dental scaler to scrape the rock). Catch and remove any free floating algae that you dislodge. If possible, do this in a bucket, as opposed to in your tank. Keep on it and you'll continue to make progress.

[evan127]

Do you question the practice of keeping phosphates at 0.00ppm or the accuracy of 0.00ppm from test kits?

 

The urchin has been cruising around the glass the last 48 hours. Still waiting for the crossing over to the rock work. I tried manual removal, but I think that spread it even more.

[seabass]

Do you question the practice of keeping phosphates at 0.00ppm or the accuracy of 0.00ppm from test kits?

I was questioning that phosphate was actually 0.00ppm. What phosphate kit do you use? Do you use any sort of phosphate reducing media?

 

However, since the symbiotic algae in coral can utilize phosphate to produce energy, I recommend detectable levels of phosphate, but no higher than 0.03ppm.

 

The urchin has been cruising around the glass the last 48 hours. Still waiting for the crossing over to the rock work. I tried manual removal, but I think that spread it even more.

The urchin and other cleaners will do the same. That's why I recommended manual removal outside the tank.

[evan127]

I use the Hanna ultra low tester. I am using 10 tbsp of GFO in a reator.

[seabass]

So between the GFO and the algae, you have no measurable inorganic phosphate. Once you get rid of the algae, I'd try to get phosphorus up to at least 2 or 3ppb. But like I said in the beginning, phosphate likely isn't the problem with your algae issue.

[evan127]

What could be the issue if not phosphates?

[seabass]

The algae was introduced by a frag or something. Pieces were then broken off by your cleanup crew, and it spread.

 

Now the issue is how to get rid of it. Is it possible to remove the rocks while you manually remove it?

[evan127]

It would be. But it is on the sand, overflow box, plumbing, in the sump, etc. it's everywhere and it's very discouraging.

[seabass]

OK I'm going to change direction and potentially recommend peroxide treatments. Don't worry, I'll give you specific instructions before I tell you to proceed.

 

First off, I'd love to see pictures. I'm sure that I can post one of mine that looks worse than yours currently is (although it was a different species of algae). Next, can you please provide a list of the livestock in your tank.

 

Out of curiosity, is the pincushion urchin wearing the algae yet? Seems like this isn't a water chemistry question, but we can continue on here. Are you prepared to do a little work?

[evan127]

I can get pictures as soon as the lights are on!

 

Livestock:

- 10 blue chromis

- 1 sixline wrasse

- 2 ocellaris clownfish

- 1 starry blenny

- 1 emerald crab

- 1 porcelain crab

- 1 long spine urchin

- 1 pincushion urchin

- Appox. 15 cerith snails

- Approx. 5 astrea snails

- 2 nerite snails

- 2 turbo snails

 

The pincushion is not wearing any algae. I am absolutely ready to do some work, just short of taking rocks and sand out of the tank.

[seabass]

It seems like a large bio-load for what is essentially a 40 breeder. But again, probably not the problem.

I am absolutely ready to do some work, just short of taking rocks and sand out of the tank.

That will limit what we'll be able to do. I doubt that dosing peroxide will solve your problem, and the algae is likely too wide spread to treat it with peroxide inside the tank. But I'll be happy to take a look at the pics and let you know what I think.

 

Gelidium, Red Wiry Turf Algae

Many species of short creeping red algae exist so the hobby generally lumps all of them under the heading "Gelidium", (the genus that is home to many of those species), and the common name Red Turf Algae, or Red Wiry Algae.

Manual Removal - Difficult. Macros that have fragile runners and creep along the rock are the hardest to manually remove. Do the best you can. Use a dental pick to remove it if possible. Fragments of the algae can spread though, so make sure to net any pieces that break loose. Yeah I know, it is boring as can be, but if you do it once surgically with a dental pick the problem goes away for good. If you can take the rock out, all the better.

Clean Up Crew- Emerald Crabs, urchins, sea hares, and large turbos.

Tip - Don't pass on frags with this stuff to other hobbyists, don't put one in your tank. This algae has become extremely common on traded/aquacultured frags. So my advice is every time you add a coral or a rock look for it from now on. It is easier to keep out of the tank then deal with it once inside.

[evan127]

Not that it makes a big difference, but I ditched the 40 breeder long ago It's a 48 rimless now

 

Were you going to suggest spraying the rock outside the tank with hydrogen peroxide?

[evan127]

IMG_4573 by Evan Cronshaw, on Flickr

 

IMG_4575 by Evan Cronshaw, on Flickr

 

IMG_4577 by Evan Cronshaw, on Flickr

 

IMG_4579 by Evan Cronshaw, on Flickr

[seabass]

Yeah, I know, it's a Mr. Aqua 48 gallon. I've checked it out from the link in your sig. Like I said, it's essentially 40 breeder in size (36x18x17 vs 36x18x18). However, I recognize that it's a much nicer tank. Your reef looks very nice.

 

Well, I was going to suggest manual removal with a dental scaler, outside of the tank (in a container of saltwater), plus doing a quick saltwater/peroxide rinse to try to get rid of stray fragments (before returning them to the tank).

 

I was also going to suggest replacing, cleaning, or removing the sand bed. This would require removing everything from your tank prior to disturbing the substrate, then removing the sand, and cleaning your tank. Then you could either put in new sand, thoroughly clean your existing sand, or leaving your tank bare bottom for awhile.

 

I'd try adding more turbo snails and emerald crabs (in addition to manual removal efforts).

 

Edit: I just looked at the pics. Wow, that's a lot! Does it siphon off of the sand if you try?

[evan127]

I'd would have to quit life and make it a 24/7 job to manually remove all of it. Its everywhere. At this point the rock work is a lost cause I think. I have corals encrusting and no way to remove them without breaking them off and resetting 3 months of growth.

 

I could remove the sand bed entirely, but that would mean I would have to remove all my burrowing critters too.

 

Todays effort will be adding a bunch of turbos and more emerald crabs.

 

Thanks for the advice and help seabass. I appreciate it.

 

Edit: Yeah, no kidding its a lot! It does siphon off, but only as much as I can scrape off the rocks. It blows off too sometimes with the flow in the tank

[seabass]

I'd love to see pictures. I'm sure that I can post one of mine that looks worse than yours currently is (although it was a different species of algae)

As I promised:

However, I think I'd rather deal with my mess than yours.

 

I wouldn't give up on manual removal just yet. I know it will seem like you aren't making a dent in it, but any help that you can give your cleanup crew will probably help.

[evan127]

Yeah, I think that is the best thing to do at this point

[seabass]

I'd would have to quit life and make it a 24/7 job to manually remove all of it. Its everywhere. At this point the rock work is a lost cause I think. I have corals encrusting and no way to remove them without breaking them off and resetting 3 months of growth

If this is just utterly frustrating to you, I wonder if you'd be better off just fragging unaffected pieces of coral to save, and restarting. IDK (it was just a thought).

 

Actually, I think it would be better to see what a beefed up cleanup crew can do (like we discussed). I'd really overdo it to try to get it resolved. You can always give some of them away after your tank is clean.

[seabass]

Has it made its way into your sump?

[evan127]

Yep! I'm not exaggerating when I say its everywhere

[seabass]

You wouldn't happen to have your 40 breeder around still, would you? I'm wondering if you could move everything there for awhile (except your sand bed), and let the new cleanup crew do their thing there, while you cleanup your 48 gallon tank.

 

I say this because, if the algae isn't available to them, they can't eat it. Your plumbing and sump are acting as a gelidium refugium.

[evan127]

Now I am not sure this is gelidium. It completely (to the human eye) comes off the rock when it's blown with a turkey baster. And I'm also not positive it's not not a nutrient issue. What did I find underneath the red algae after I blew off the rocks? Tufts of green algae clumps! So, I have been blowing off the rocks with my Vortechs on full blast and removing filter socks every few hours. I think it is a phosphorus issue, I just don't know where it's coming from.

[Tamberav]

Looks like cyano on the rocks, diatoms on the sand bed, and GHA under the cyano to me. 10 chromis may be too much for filtration or maintenance lacking somewhere.

As I promised:

However, I think I'd rather deal with my mess than yours.

 

I wouldn't give up on manual removal just yet. I know it will seem like you aren't making a dent in it, but any help that you can give your cleanup crew will probably help.

 

You should have kept this tank and set it up for lettuce sea slugs and jester goby habitat

[seabass]

You should have kept this tank and set it up for lettuce sea slugs and jester goby habitat

I'm sure that I could recreate it. My clownfish didn't seem to mind the green.