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A problem I see with newbies


RayWhisperer

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Nano sapiens

 

 

To each his own I guess; I know car guys who never actually drive their cars.

 

I know a few 'Trailer Queens', myself. The last car show I went to an owner was challenged to actually start the trailered car, and when he finally successful, he had filled the area with a cloud of old gasoline smoke so thick...

 

If one wants to have a display tank that showcases the latest-and-greatest Tech, then by all means go for it. However, there should be an awareness that without a thorough understanding of the chemistry/biology going on in the tank, maintaining the system for any length of time would be a nightmare.

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Biology is where it's at. The equipment is just there to provide support for the biology and really shouldn't become the main focus of a reef tank, IMO.

Chemistry too.

 

I don't want to speak for Ray, but I don't think he is saying that equipment or tech should be avoided (or that everything should be manual); just that inexperienced reefers should understand what these things do.

 

Mindless dosing of snake oil products can do more harm than good. Coral health has more to do with stability and water quality than dosing amino acids and vitamins. Knowing what causes cyano or GHA allows one to correct these problems through better husbandry (versus just treating it will chemicals).

 

This can apply toward equipment too. Chasing the latest and greatest isn't required. While some of it is awesome, it's always changing and can get expensive very fast.

 

This goes for livestock as well. It's not a competition, and you don't need to be TOTM to enjoy the hobby. Overstocking too quickly tends to lead to lost livestock and imbalances. Taking it slow means more than just waiting for the cycle to become established and then adding a little livestock each week. It's nice to take some time to contemplate what you are trying to achieve.

 

When I first started, I remember going to the LFS and buying anything that looked interesting (not to mention visiting online shops and paying top $ for corals with fancy names). However now, I can't remember the last time I bought a new coral. Although some of the vibrant colors are very impressive, to me, some tanks look more like a bowl of Skittles than a natural reefscape (not that my tanks are anything special, just that you don't have to shell out a bunch of cash to have a nice reef).

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Nano sapiens

Perhaps you should have posted this thread, nano. You're far more eloquent than I could ever hope to be.

 

I don't know about that...

 

funny-fat-man-glass-beer-19134359.jpg

 

Ray - You did a great job of stirring things up with your initial title and post.

 

Anyway, back at it... :)

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RayWhisperer

Seriously, both you guys said what I was saying, only better. It took me using half of N-R's available bandwidth to say what you two did in a couple of short paragraphs.

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Nano sapiens

Seriously, both you guys said what I was saying, only better. It took me using half of N-R's available bandwidth to say what you two did in a couple of short paragraphs.

 

Yeah, but your's was a lot more entertaining, in a 'in your face' kind of way :)

 

Seabass has the edge on the 'eloquence' part. I just dribble and drabble a few tidbits now and then...

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I love automation, ATO, dosers, yes pls! Someday automatic water changer WILL be mine!! Great so you can take vacations too.

 

Until I get a robot to turkey baste my rocks, stir my sand bed, clean my glass, frag and feed the corals, and peroxide that pest, I got plenty to do anyways that keeps me connected.

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you mean the $1k I blew on Apex with DOS that doesn't even have built-in wifi is not going to make my SPS color up????? FML.

 

but for real, my lil 5 gallon Spec with only a $12 heater often does better than my other tank with all the gadgets. Not running ATO or MP10 or dosing anything. Just 2 gallons water change weekly. I often go days without even looking at that tank...cuz I am too busy fudging with my Red Sea Reefer with reactor, skimmer, APEX, DOS, refugium, Gyre 130, and dosing all sorts of random crap.

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you mean the $1k I blew on Apex with DOS that doesn't even have built-in wifi is not going to make my SPS color up????? FML.

 

but for real, my lil 5 gallon Spec with only a $12 heater often does better than my other tank with all the gadgets. Not running ATO or MP10 or dosing anything. Just 2 gallons water change weekly. I often go days without even looking at that tank...cuz I am too busy fudging with my Red Sea Reefer with reactor, skimmer, APEX, DOS, refugium, Gyre 130, and dosing all sorts of random crap.

 

Pico's are magical!! Waterchange annnnnnnnd DONE!

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I'm a newb and feel like I am over complicating things with equipment sometimes. However, I blame it on going to engineering school rather than any disinformation I read.

lol my husband's a software engineer. So, when we have the spare change, our tanks get teched up.

 

When people would ask, he would always say "Well she is really the one that knows everything. I just like all the toys we can put on it."

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Nano sapiens

Well, I guess we each have our merits.

I'm gonna use some of the Aussie I learned today. You two are Mad C*nts!

 

Ta!

 

Don't forget to throw a shrimp on the barbie when you have that Fosters! ;)

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squamptonbc

I keep all aquariums simple, I don't even post on some freshwater forums anymore as I got tired of being told my people not even born yet when I started keeping fish that I am doing it wrong, my plants and fish say otherwise, but props to all those companies marketing departments.

 

The auto everything high tech stuff looks nice, but eh for me all that adds more complication then its worth, and I guess I am lucky in the sense softies are the only corals I desire, and they tend to be easy peasy and not demanding of much, first corals were by mistake, came in on some rock, never intended to even keep corals as fish is where its at for me, but then the mushrooms and a few other softies grew on me, so I added a couple more.

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I think this is a great topic to discuss and something that new hobbyists need to understand.

 

I come from 3 years experience in the planted tank world. 2.5 years low tech/ light and about 5 months High tech/light (daily nutrient dosing, pressurized co2 injection, fancy Japanese aquasoil, etc.).

 

Equipment is offered as a remedy for most any tank issue I've come across on the planted forum. Pressurised Co2 is often preached as a cure all for algae issues. 100% not true. Does it help? Absolutely, but one has to understand what the co2 is actually doing to the tank/plant chemistry and why it's growing either plants or algae.

 

UV sterilizers are also a big one I use to hear recommended as a cure all when I first started. Most often just a band-aid to a deeper issue.

 

All the fancy Japanese equipment as well. The aquasoil is a good idea if you can swing it though but many plant guys have equal success with blasting sand and diy substrate nutrient capsules.

 

Lights aren't as big of a deal in the planted community (spectrum, intensity, photoperiod) as they are in the reefing community I've come to find out but lighting is also a major piece of equipment that jumps on the bandwagon of miracle solutions for planted guys. BuildMyLed was usually the "high-end" fixtures recommended for high-tech tanks when they still made aquarium fixtures. A VHO led fixture that was around 200 bucks at its cheapest with added dimmer and fixture feet and shipping. When in reality, in more experienced hands the plants could have thrived under a series of 13w spiral cfl bulbs. At any rate, more light means more everything else (nutrients, co2, and plant mass).

 

Dosing is probably the biggest advice given in my experience. Whenever anyone has an algae or plant growth issue, the answer is most likely going to be "buy dry ferts and start dosing with an EI schedual and adjust your dosage due to tank reaction". It can make for a lot of conflicting information especially when everyone's tanks are different. That's actually not bad advice and it's the cheapest aspect of a planted tank but when a new hobbyist doesn't quite understand why/how dosing nitrates in excess(<30+ppm) may be vital to a plant only tank that wouldn't otherwise produce enough nitrate for plant uptake or that by diffusing co2 to the point of near fish suffocation means more nutrients, light, maintainence and most importantly a very keen attention to minor changes in an otherwise chaotic harmony of balancing delicate tank chemistry. Understanding how to balance your tanks parameters is more important than trying to figure out our new $300 toy.

 

I've been in the saltwater world since December 2015. And as far as being a newbie goes, this is actually my first post! I started with a 30cm cube, an ac70 hob (floss, purigen, chemipure-elite) 7 pounds live sand, 10 pounds Marco dry rock, cheap finnex marine+II led. Let it all brew in the tank for a few months then got a reefcleaners cuc and a pair of juvi false percs.

 

End of July I upgraded to a 45cm cube in about the course of day, used the same hob setup, added the other 5 pounds of dry rock, added 6ish# more live sand, korallia nano 425, "upgraded" to black box led. I'm currently gathering funds for an ato because I can't leave my house for more than 24 hours otherwise, and an overflow box for my ac70, which should really be used with an ato. None of which is completely necessary. I don't own an ro/di unit. I've been using distilled since day one. My clowns seem happy and I only lost 3 dwarf ceriths while upgrading tanks. Also, the whole time I dosed seachem stability in some amount almost daily, it didn't hurt one bit and...I already had it so why not.

 

My point being, my fowler has definitely been easier to maintain than any of my planted tanks with a bunch of gadgets.

 

I know I dont have coral yet but the best investment or "equipment" in both aquarium communities that I can offer is invest in what it takes to do proper water-changes and manual nuisance removal (algae/hitchhikers).

 

IME, injecting high amounts of co2, long intense photoperiods, and heavy daily nutrient dosing surerly does produce some of the best looking aquatic plant specimens around but you best better know what the hell you are doing because one minor change in chemistry has the potential to cause massive repercussions rather easily. I bet that logic holds true for reefkeeping as well. And when someone doesnt know why something caused a failure or a tank crash, no amount of gadget is going to fix much of anything.

 

Having said ALL of that, I do need be more strict on my water change schedules but other than that, KISS is working pretty good in my salty cube and low tech planted tanks so far where expensive gadgets are getting me algae and stunted growth in my high-tech planted tank to the point that it's in need of a good rescape and some fresh plants because I haven't gotten the balance down quite yet. I'm taking my time with my saltwater excursions and trying not to jump in to fast. So far it's going great!

 

Budget dictates most things we do in the aquarium hobby but it doesn't have to be the limiting factor to success.

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msparklym13

Great post- I was recently dealing with a debris situation and found great help. Turned out I just needed some floss and not the big set up others were proposing. I am a such a NEWB- almost a year in and I am dorky and have tons of stupid questions. Thanks for posting and look forward to more! Us newbies rely on the experts ;-)

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Nano sapiens

The reality is that any type of reef tank can do very well, for a very long time, with very simple methods. Held true for my FW planted tanks back in the 70's just as well as today and ditto for SW.

 

And for our 'Miracle Mud' users I found this gem:

 

“Do you have the patience to wait until your mud settles and the water is clear?”
Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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RayWhisperer

Thanks for killing my planted tank dreams, Rob. I pulled a newb on my future planted tank.....

 

And welcome to N-R. Thanks for making that your first post.

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:welcome: to N-R.com RyRob! There definitely is a parallel.

 

 

I have to admit that sometimes I recommend a certain fix without trying to explain why in detail. I guess I've gotten burned too often posting a treasure trove of information only to have the OP do what they were previously inclined to do anyway.

 

I don't know how many times I've posted in threads about Ich, that there is no reef-safe cure and the fish need to be removed and treated in a hospital tank; only to have someone else suggest that there are alternative reef safe cures or that healthy fish can naturally resist the parasite. Posters often prefer to believe the advice which agrees with how they want things to work (versus how they might actually work).

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:welcome: to N-R.com RyRob! There definitely is a parallel.

 

 

I have to admit that sometimes I recommend a certain fix without trying to explain why in detail. I guess I've gotten burned too often posting a treasure trove of information only to have the OP do what they were previously inclined to do anyway.

 

I don't know how many times I've posted in threads about Ich, that there is no reef-safe cure and the fish need to be removed and treated in a hospital tank; only to have someone else suggest that there are alternative reef safe cures or that healthy fish can naturally resist the parasite. Posters often prefer to believe the advice which agrees with how they want things to work (versus how they might actually work).

 

Just add GARLIC! It cures EVERYTHING! ;)

 

2 days later: hey guys I think it is working, my fish seems to be swimming more. I also think I see less spots (nevermind the ich life-cycle).

 

2 weeks later: my fish died :(

 

rip%20fish.png

 

 

And because I feel like complaining even though this is off topic, bought a clownfish from Petco very visibly covered in ich. I asked for a discount because I had to spend $ on medication and set up a QT tank. Petco did give me a discount (yay) but as I was leaving, the guy told me ich is no big deal and I can put the fish in my tank and it will clear up on its own.

 

Screw you buddy! How many uniformed noobs fish have you killed with that line :(

 

That was a couple years ago, the clown is with me still, cupramine and a 5g QT was my magical cure.

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High post count newbie reporting for an ass whooping. Where's Daddy Ray?


 

Readng this, I feel old... <_<

:wub: NEVA!


 

Biology is where it's at. The equipment is just there to provide support for the biology and really shouldn't become the main focus of a reef tank, IMO.

^^ this


I love automation, ATO, dosers, yes pls! Someday automatic water changer WILL be mine!! Great so you can take vacations too.

 

Until I get a robot to turkey baste my rocks, stir my sand bed, clean my glass, frag and feed the corals, and peroxide that pest, I got plenty to do anyways that keeps me connected.

You're so cool :wub:

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My favorite is the new hobbyist that cycles a tank with bio-pellets, GFO, carbon, skimmer all running together. Then freaks out when diatoms appear.


My other favorite (not) is the complaint on how often you have to clean the glass and because it is done daily, there must be a need for a reactor of some sort, or maybe I should do more frequent water changes or stop feeding the fish.

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