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It's boring around here. Let's talk about something fun


evilc66

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Yay! Discussion! :)

 

 

From the DIY aspect, the price has stagnated a little over the last few years. From a commercial aspect, where the volumes are much higher, the price has dropped significantly...

That makes sense then. Maybe this will filter down through manufactured lights at some point. Price is still a sticking point for high quality lights, but I don't think the manufacturers are generating huge profits.

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Light emitting plasma at 10k color temp or above would be pretty rad. That plus OLED for perfectly diffused supplemental light.

 

I've been following https://www.led-professional.com/and http://www.ledsmagazine.com/ for a few years.

The trends in the general LED industry are not going to blow our minds:

  • Incremental efficiency increases
  • Integrated Light Engines
  • Tunable CCT

Increases in CRI aren't there and really seem secondary to efficiency.

 

LEP is the future of aquarium lighting!

 

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/ugc/2016/02/16/luxtheon-lighting-corporation-unveils-industry-first-hybrid-grow-light-featuring-led-plasma-technol.html

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Grow-Light-Plasma-engine-Kit-400w-equivalent-Build-Your-Own-fixture-/201336366751?hash=item2ee095269f:g:j48AAOSwEK9UEJxF

 

Up for a build, Evil?

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I will second that the Mint is a pretty amazing color - its also noteworthy since its blue peak is below the usual 450nm point, and closer to 440nm (pushing into violet territory). It also has a very low Vf. If only they made the Mint in Z as well as C, but I can't have everything, Thankfully PCBs are cheap :)

 

 

Motorized is something I have seen very very little of. Coral health and shadowing aside, a two-axis (linear motion, rotation on the short dimension) motorized mount moving several small panels/pucks of LEDs could make for some dramatic effects in a larger tank. It would be damn bulky for a nano, and you might as well just use more LEDs mounted at angles as all the mechanics will cost more than tripling the number of LEDs plus some power switches.

 

As for LEP, I anticipate it will have a similar outcome to the Plasma vs LCD battle in TV: it will be easier to scale LED production and the benefits in the mass market (general lighting) will favor the "good enough" technology.

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Motorized sounds really cool. My vision is to build a light which travels in an arc over the tank as the sun would. I think it would be pretty simple too so long as the weight could be kept down. Single point light, servo controlled arm mounted to the back of the tank.

 

Crude sketch:

xzotrnbgojxibeib.png

 

this would have very few moving parts and would require the least complex wiring.

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I will second that the Mint is a pretty amazing color - its also noteworthy since its blue peak is below the usual 450nm point, and closer to 440nm (pushing into violet territory). It also has a very low Vf. If only they made the Mint in Z as well as C, but I can't have everything, Thankfully PCBs are cheap :)

...

The Luxeon C series actually has some interesting LEDs. I'm looking at the 5700K 90CRI white. It has the most uniform output between 475nm and 650nm that I've seen. What happens if you combine those with with a blue peaking at 470nm to 480nm and some violets?

 

So many options...

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The Luxeon C series actually has some interesting LEDs. I'm looking at the 5700K 90CRI white. It has the most uniform output between 475nm and 650nm that I've seen. What happens if you combine those with with a blue peaking at 470nm to 480nm and some violets?

 

So many options...

 

I have some around, I'll report back :)

Regarding the motion, this is a very rough sketch of what I had in mind. The upside is the arc could be flattened however much you want without having to extend the pivot arm. The downside is the bulky top apparatus. A rack cut into the bottom of the guide rails and a stepper drive motor with pinion gear could move the platform, or a belt and the drive mounted externally.

 

sled.png

 

The third option is of course a flat rail set and a pivoting mount. Twice the drive motors.

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Here's a question (or two) for the LED smart guys. When we look at the output numbers for various LEDs (luminous flux) the typical output for Cyan and Blue LEDs is quite low. I've always taken this to mean that the efficiency/output from those LEDs is very low compared to whites and Royal blue.

 

to confuse things, the Luxeon folks report Royal Blue as radiometric power, so I'm left wondering how one compares that to luminous flux.

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White LEDs and visible spectrum LEDs are often measured in lumens, which is a pretty crap measurement especially with the colored LEDs (since lumens is weighted toward what the human eye perceives as bright, we don't care about visual brightness as much). Total radiated power (milliwatts) is by far the better measurement for what we are trying to do, especially for the single color LEDs.

 

Its annoying :)

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mgsullivan24

+1 for simpler control and maybe more setup options on the fixure itself rather than using a computer. I'm loving the idea of a curved light, I think it would look sharp over the tank also.

 

Personally I'm loving the hybrid systems but the prices are insane. On that note, in my experiences a combination of any 2 of the 3 major reef lighting types(LED/MH/T5) gives a great look and performance.

 

OLED would be the bees knees imo.

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White LEDs and visible spectrum LEDs are often measured in lumens, which is a pretty crap measurement especially with the colored LEDs (since lumens is weighted toward what the human eye perceives as bright, we don't care about visual brightness as much). Total radiated power (milliwatts) is by far the better measurement for what we are trying to do, especially for the single color LEDs.

 

Its annoying :)

I get why they would rate white leds in lumens. It is a reasonable comparison for a light designed to help us see.

 

It is annoying indeed. I tried to figure out if there was some way to figure out the radiated power from the manufacturers specs (and I'm sure there is a way), but I never got anywhere with that.

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  • 3 weeks later...
jedimasterben

Doea anyone know when the Lux T's,Z's or C's will be available mounted if its not already ?

Not likely from the 'reef' shops any time soon. Rebels can still be purchased cheaper in bulk and they probably have thousands on hand to go through, so not much incentive to be honest. The T and Z also require pick and place, which Steve's and Rapid both already have I know, and LEDgroupbuy gets their stuff mounted at a third party, so that probably isn't the main reason, but I know when I tried to do it it was just ridiculous.

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Not likely from the 'reef' shops any time soon. Rebels can still be purchased cheaper in bulk and they probably have thousands on hand to go through, so not much incentive to be honest. The T and Z also require pick and place, which Steve's and Rapid both already have I know, and LEDgroupbuy gets their stuff mounted at a third party, so that probably isn't the main reason, but I know when I tried to do it it was just ridiculous.

Alright. Im aure they'll be available to use in due time,but by that time I'm sure better things or something similair will become readily available.

 

what did thry want a ass load for mounting ?

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Z's aren't going to be a good option for single stars. They aren't as efficient as other LED options, but their real advantage is how dense you can pack them. The only time you will see Z's used is on pre-configured multi-channel boards.

 

T's and TX's are only available in white and blue, so there is some potential there. C's make the most sense out of the LEDs that aren't currently available mounted, but it will come down to cost and availability for the company that will ultimately sell them. If the demand is there, then I'm sure someone will pick them up as an option for DIYers. Really though, the smaller the LED, the less sense it makes to mount them individually on a board.

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I was looking at the idea of a multichannel 20mm star board using Luxeon Cs.

 

I'm not sure how thermal management would work without something like sinkpad or a copper star if the mix gets too densely packed though.

 

Would still be fun to try it though.

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I was looking at the idea of a multichannel 20mm star board using Luxeon Cs.

 

I'm not sure how thermal management would work without something like sinkpad or a copper star if the mix gets too densely packed though.

 

Would still be fun to try it though.

 

I think a small cluster of three/four up Cs would be better for the DIY. A larger cluster would only start to create more shadowing.

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I think a small cluster of three/four up Cs would be better for the DIY. A larger cluster would only start to create more shadowing.

I suppose it does depend on the application.

 

Mine is more theoretical playing.

 

Basically making micro clusters and spreading them evenly over a tank run at 350-700mA with the F13671_ANGE_RZ-LENS over each to erase any leftover color banding.

 

Of course each cluster would have fewer leds than a typical cluster as there's no need for more than 1-2 of most colors that would be used in any cluster when the clusters exist in greater numbers.

 

But again this is theoretical playing.

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Using the mixing lens without the reflector? This would work at close mounting distances, but the reflector (or any type of reflective light guide material, I've even used metalized mylar tape) really does improve the efficiency of the whole system tremendously. I wouldn't skip it.

 

How many channels are you talking about? The C is the best spot in terms of available spectral lineup vs efficiency, but the Rebels can be more cost effective (since there are so many more out there). I still haven't been able to get my hands on a deep-red C yet either (for non-reef use). Add in a channel of 3.5mm footprints to fit the SemiLEDS N3535/C3535 series.

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No canopy is complete without a bunch of mylar stuck to the inside.

 

Some more improvements I'm really interested in:

  • Better dimming: Higher frequency dimming, offset dimming between channels, combined current and PWM dimming for better low light performance (less flicker). (edit: at a reasonable price)
  • Light guiding to combine multiple chips into a single point source. I'd imagine this could be done with fiber optic glass or even light guiding acrylics. We can combine light by diffusing / mixing / projecting (with reflectors); however, this approach really blunts the shimmer that can make a tank pop.
  • Improvements to phosphor conversion of UV. White LEDs based on UV would be the perfect mix with our royal blues, but the efficiency just isn't there yet. Companies like http://www.yujiintl.com/high-cri-led-lighting and http://www.open-photonics.com/featured-technologies/high-cri-ledsare producing some nice UV converted whites, but the cost and efficiency do not make them an attractive option.
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I would love to see like 6-8 C's crammed onto like a 1" x 1"

or 10-12 on a 1.25" x 1.25" 2 channel board :rolleyes::haha:omgomgomgfingerscrossed

 

Something like:

 

( 8 leds )

Ch1- 3x 5k 90CRI,1x Mint or maybe 2x 5k,1x 3k,1 Mint

Ch2- 3x Royal's & 1x Blue

 

( 12 leds )

Ch1- 3x 5k 90CRI,1x 3k,1x Mint,1x Cyan

Ch2- 4x Royal's,1x Blue,1x Violet

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Sinkpad type mcpcbs would also help with the C line thanks to their dedicated thermal pad.

 

I believe the blue acro arrays use extra wide leads spread over the negative space (the area without diodes in the center) of the mcpcb to dissipate heat evenly as the Luxeon Z family lacks a dedicated thermal pad. Of course that could have been an old theoretical design I saw and not the design that moved forward.

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I think 500mA would be fine without heat being a issue,no ? Speaking of BlueAcro their new strips are awesome and not to mention small. Been emailing with them and I'm contemplating a few big time.

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Sinkpad type mcpcbs would also help with the C line thanks to their dedicated thermal pad.

 

I believe the blue acro arrays use extra wide leads spread over the negative space (the area without diodes in the center) of the mcpcb to dissipate heat evenly as the Luxeon Z family lacks a dedicated thermal pad. Of course that could have been an old theoretical design I saw and not the design that moved forward.

 

 

The design is roughly the same (pie wedges), but the LEDs had to iteratively moved out from the center a bit to keep a fully loaded board running everything at 1A under the limits when ambient temperatures were higher. Its not the worst case Luxeon Z design, as all three directions from the pads do have some level of copper pour, but its still very dense from a power perspective.

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The design is roughly the same (pie wedges), but the LEDs had to iteratively moved out from the center a bit to keep a fully loaded board running everything at 1A under the limits when ambient temperatures were higher. Its not the worst case Luxeon Z design, as all three directions from the pads do have some level of copper pour, but its still very dense from a power perspective.

You're from BlueAcro,correct ?

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