PH is 7.5 to 7.7 need advice

[raygo]

I have a 34 gal reef tank.
Up to 6 months ago my PH was 8 to 8.3.
Then it started dropping and is now 7.5 to 7.7 so I,m a bit worried although the fish and corals (LPS) are doing OK so far.
My nitrates and phosphates are very low, Calcium 380 avg, Magnesium in mid 1300's, KH 9.

I dosed with Seachem marine buffer for 4 days in a row and it hasn't changed the PH much at all. BUT the KH has gone up to low 20's (so I stopped dosing).

I use RO water which gives a PH of 7 before adding Reef Chrystals. After adding the salt mix it goes up to 7.7 (in a 5 gal bucket). I think this may be the problem. Should the RO water have a higher PH out of the tap? (looking through the threads there are a lot of conflicting theories out there)
I have a PH probe that is calibrated.

Any suggestions will be most appreciated

[Mariaface]

Please don't try to manually change pH using additives; it's a dangerous game.

 

See if opening your windows for a few hours or something will let pH rise; it may be CO2 buildup in the room?

[Nano sapiens]

Somethings not right...

 

Mixing up salt water using RO and Reef Crystals should yield an alkalinity around 13 dKh and Ca of around 490 ppm (and around 8.4 dKh for pH):

 

http://www.thatpetplace.com/salt-mix-guide

 

Add the salt SLOWLY (while constantly stirring) the bucket of water.

 

If you still experience low display tank pH, consider Mariaface's suggestion. Using Kalkwasser to maintain Ca and Alk (if you aren't already) will also keep pH elevated.

[gus6464]

Might be too much co2 in the room. Open a window or if you have a skimmer you can add a co2 scrubber.

[raygo]

Please don't try to manually change pH using additives; it's a dangerous game.

 

See if opening your windows for a few hours or something will let pH rise; it may be CO2 buildup in the room?

I agree, my KH went to 20 with the buffer, won't be doing that again. I don't think it's a CO2 problem The windows are open whenever possible and the house has enough outside ventilation I think. The first 2 years of my tank were OK so there's something else going on. Thanks for the tips.

[raygo]

Somethings not right...

 

Mixing up salt water using RO and Reef Crystals should yield an alkalinity around 13 dKh and Ca of around 490 ppm (and around 8.4 dKh for pH):

 

http://www.thatpetplace.com/salt-mix-guide

 

Add the salt SLOWLY (while constantly stirring) the bucket of water.

 

If you still experience low display tank pH, consider Mariaface's suggestion. Using Kalkwasser to maintain Ca and Alk (if you aren't already) will also keep pH elevated.

After mixing my KH was 12 and Ca 480. What do you mean "(and around 8.4dKH for PH)" My PH is 7.6

I have a pump in the salt mix bucket for 2 days before using.

I tried Kalkwasser and it didn't raise the PH by much (around .2)

Thanks for the tips

Might be too much co2 in the room. Open a window or if you have a skimmer you can add a co2 scrubber.

Thanks, I'll take a look at the scrubber option but, as mentioned to Mariaface, I don't think CO2 is my problem.

[Nano sapiens]

After mixing my KH was 12 and Ca 480. What do you mean "(and around 8.4dKH for PH)" My PH is 7.6

I have a pump in the salt mix bucket for 2 days before using.

I tried Kalkwasser and it didn't raise the PH by much (around .2)

Thanks for the tips

Thanks, I'll take a look at the scrubber option but, as mentioned to Mariaface, I don't think CO2 is my problem.

 

For reference, freshly mixed saltwater should typically be around 8.2 - 8.4. Try to increase surface turbulance if it is currently low.

 

Here's the same problem:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/340712-help-why-is-my-ph-so-low/

 

A search on Google will produce a lot more similar threads.

 

Good luck.

[Cencalfishguy56]

After mixing my KH was 12 and Ca 480. What do you mean "(and around 8.4dKH for PH)" My PH is 7.6

I have a pump in the salt mix bucket for 2 days before using.

I tried Kalkwasser and it didn't raise the PH by much (around .2)

Thanks for the tips

 

Thanks, I'll take a look at the scrubber option but, as mentioned to Mariaface, I don't think CO2 is my problem.

hows your surface agitation? Gas exchange keeps your pH up, if you have a lot it should remain high, a buffer is bad business, I know from experience

[North Borders]

Chasing pH with kalk or buffer is risky business.

 

Things that helped me when I went through the 'low-pH' stage was increasing surface agitation and letting fresh air into my apartment. (opening a window)

 

Where I live, it gets far too hot in the summer and far too cold in the winter for me to do this year round though. So, I recently installed a Co2 scrubber from Bulk Reef and it's been one of the best purchases I've made for my tank. If you have a skimmer, you merely run the air intake line to the container and the CO2 absorbing media 'scrubs' the incoming air and leaves you with o2 rich air feeding into your skimmer. Since I installed this, my pH hasn't dipped below 8.1, whereas before I would get dips to 7.75-7.8ish at night. (when windows were closed) The scrubbing pellets cost money though. Opening a window is free.

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

 

^this is a fantastic read by Randy Holmes-Farley on low pH causes and fixes. He talks at length about proper aeration and need for a CO2 balance with the room air/tank CO2 concentrations.

[patback]

It's summer. That ph is fine. As long as you aren't going from the 7.5 to 8.3 don't worry about. What do your coral look like?

[Clown79]

I never chase ph. I test it monthly.

Ph changes throughout the day so if you aren't testing it at the exact same time- the results are useless.

[raygo]

It's summer. That ph is fine. As long as you aren't going from the 7.5 to 8.3 don't worry about. What do your coral look like?

 

 

I never chase ph. I test it monthly.

Ph changes throughout the day so if you aren't testing it at the exact same time- the results are useless.

 

 

 

For reference, freshly mixed saltwater should typically be around 8.2 - 8.4. Try to increase surface turbulance if it is currently low.

 

Here's the same problem:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/340712-help-why-is-my-ph-so-low/

 

A search on Google will produce a lot more similar threads.

 

Good luck.

 

 

hows your surface agitation? Gas exchange keeps your pH up, if you have a lot it should remain high, a buffer is bad business, I know from experience

 

 

Chasing pH with kalk or buffer is risky business.

 

Things that helped me when I went through the 'low-pH' stage was increasing surface agitation and letting fresh air into my apartment. (opening a window)

 

Where I live, it gets far too hot in the summer and far too cold in the winter for me to do this year round though. So, I recently installed a Co2 scrubber from Bulk Reef and it's been one of the best purchases I've made for my tank. If you have a skimmer, you merely run the air intake line to the container and the CO2 absorbing media 'scrubs' the incoming air and leaves you with o2 rich air feeding into your skimmer. Since I installed this, my pH hasn't dipped below 8.1, whereas before I would get dips to 7.75-7.8ish at night. (when windows were closed) The scrubbing pellets cost money though. Opening a window is free.

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

 

^this is a fantastic read by Randy Holmes-Farley on low pH causes and fixes. He talks at length about proper aeration and need for a CO2 balance with the room air/tank CO2 concentrations.

Thanks all for your input, it's much appreciated. The scrubber is about the only thing I don't do so will try one out. I have good surface agitation so I don't think that's the problem.

Could you let me know what your RO water PH is before you add the salt mix? (Mine is 7 and I'm beginning to think this is the problem as my RO equipment is getting old. If I'm adding new salt water with a PH of 7.6 then my tank PH is never going to improve)

[Cencalfishguy56]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks all for your input, it's much appreciated. The scrubber is about the only thing I don't do so will try one out. I have good surface agitation so I don't think that's the problem.

Could you let me know what your RO water PH is before you add the salt mix? (Mine is 7 and I'm beginning to think this is the problem as my RO equipment is getting old. If I'm adding new salt water with a PH of 7.6 then my tank PH is never going to improve)

it should be 7, h20 has a pH of 7 naturally, usually salt for mixing has additives already in it to buffer the pH to 8.0-8.2

[teenyreef]

Your RO water will go to whatever the salt mix takes it to, unless it's not even close to being purified for some reason.

 

Most Ph meters can't even measure RODI water accurately, but that's OK because it doesn't really matter. Here's a helpful link about the Ph of RODI water:

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/rhf/index.php#8

 

I think what Nano Sapiens was saying is that when you measure the Ph of your newly mixed saltwater before you put it in your tank, it should be about 8.2-8.4, so if it's only 7.7 there's either something wrong with your salt, or something wrong with your meter.

 

I have a Ph meter in my tank, and it continuously varies from a low of about 8 during the dark, to a high of about 8.2 after the lights have been on all day. So it does make big difference when you measure, by the way. But that shouldn't matter much when you measure the freshly mixed salt water.

[Tamberav]

Every week someone uses buffer, we need a sticky that says....

 

DON'T DOSE pH BUFFER ​no seriously, stop it!

 

 

If you're corals are doing good, what are you trying to fix?

 

My tanks run 7.6-7.9 because I don't open the windows much, the corals don't look any different at 7.6 than 7.9.

 

 

Good read on pH: http://www.melevsreef.com/node/1739

[gus6464]

Ever since I put my sump in the garage which is not fully airtight my pH has never dipped below 8.2. When lights are on it has gone as high as 8.5.

[Cencalfishguy56]

Every week someone uses buffer, we need a sticky that says....

 

DON'T DOSE pH BUFFER ​no seriously, stop it!

 

 

If you're corals are doing good, what are you trying to fix?

 

My tanks run 7.6-7.9 because I don't open the windows much, the corals don't look any different at 7.6 than 7.9.

 

 

Good read on pH: http://www.melevsreef.com/node/1739

yes! Observation is the best test you can use IMO

[raygo]

Thanks a lot for the great comments. My fish and corals are doing well so maybe I don't need to worry too much about the PH. Other than getting a scrubber there's nothing left to try anyway.

 

Cheers all

[North Borders]

I love my scrubber

[MakoMan36]

When I first got into this hobby I always check my PH often and adjusting it. Since the last 10yrs or so I rarely look at the reading or bother checking , I only use my PH monitor to shut off my Kalk ATO if it's goes over 8.4 . If your livestock is thriving don't bother fixing anything, fixing PH will will screw the other 3 and your tank can go downhill quick. My tank PH is around 7.6-7.8 for the first 6 months or so and will settle at 7.9-8.2 once the tank mature.

[raygo]

When I first got into this hobby I always check my PH often and adjusting it. Since the last 10yrs or so I rarely look at the reading or bother checking , I only use my PH monitor to shut off my Kalk ATO if it's goes over 8.4 . If your livestock is thriving don't bother fixing anything, fixing PH will will screw the other 3 and your tank can go downhill quick. My tank PH is around 7.6-7.8 for the first 6 months or so and will settle at 7.9-8.2 once the tank mature.

Interesting, my tank PH was 8-8.3 for the first 18 months and has dropped to 7.5-7.8 over the last 6 months. (it's been consistent over the last 2 months at 7.5 to 7.8). This week I'm doing a water change with store bought ro/di to see if this makes a difference.

[Cencalfishguy56]

Interesting, my tank PH was 8-8.3 for the first 18 months and has dropped to 7.5-7.8 over the last 6 months. (it's been consistent over the last 2 months at 7.5 to 7.8). This week I'm doing a water change with store bought ro/di to see if this makes a difference.

does your salt have a buffer?

[cruiZe]

Interesting, my tank PH was 8-8.3 for the first 18 months and has dropped to 7.5-7.8 over the last 6 months. (it's been consistent over the last 2 months at 7.5 to 7.8). This week I'm doing a water change with store bought ro/di to see if this makes a difference.

 

How are your corals / fish doing?

 

 

 

Many run Chaeto in a reverse light cycle minimize night time pH drop (myself included, or 24/7 light), but my tank will be 6 yrs old in a few week and i've never tested my pH so I wondered...

 

Why does pH matter ?

[cruiZe]

 

Good read on pH: http://www.melevsreef.com/node/1739

 

Yes it was! Thanks!

[masterbuilder]

Best answer.......Quit testing for ph!

 

As long as you provide good surface agitation and run a skimmer of almost any kind that's about all you can do. Its not that big of a deal unless its way out of line, which yours isn't.

 

Some run the air intake for their skimmer from a fresh air source (outside) but its seldom necessary. Some run a fuge on a reverse lighting schedule but unless you have a large and fully stocked fuge its ineffective. Anything else you do is a losing battle and will most likely have negative effects.