Can Cyanobacteria Be Caused By Water that Is too clean?

[Glitchfish]

Hey Everyone I'm in somewhat of a puzzle here at the moment with my one year old reef tank and to be quite frank it's really annoying me so I'd like some assistance!

 

I run an AquaReef 195 To come see it visit here (http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/374908-my-aquareef-195/#entry5356959) and well I have been trying to eradicate Cyano for almost Six months now, I had a dinoflagellate bloom and used Dino X which made my water quality degrade dramatically! Ever since then I have been clawing my way back up. I have and always have run Bio-Pellets and Rowa-Phos, I always Wet Skim and run Carbon and Filter Floss.. Recently I have seen a decrease In the Amount of Cyano and It's ease of removal just by touching it. To be fair it actually flares up when touched. I make sure my Magnesium, Alkalinity and Calcium are tested daily at midnight every week to ensure proper stability (until I get my dosing pump and ATO <3 Can Christmas Come soon!)

 

I'm just at a loss if i'm honest, I want to be able to just maintain my tank without having to suck out Cyanobacteria and hurting/damaging coral by accidentally sucking them up my siphon ! If anyone can help I would be so greatful!

[Clown79]

I have never heard of cyano due to a clean tank.

 

Cyano is caused by high nutrient levels.

 

What is your phosphates and nitrate levels? These 2 tests are important because that's what will determine the issue.

 

Mag, alk, and ca are very important for corals health/growth.

 

What kind of filter are you using? Hob, canister, do you have a sump?

 

What livestock is in the tank?

 

What is the maintenance routine and what water do you use?

 

I had cyano a few mnths ago and got rid of it by process of elimination in my maintenance.

 

1. Added additional water movement so detritus/food wouldn't settle

 

2. Limited food qty- not ltd feeding but how much I fed.

 

3. lowered bioload in my tank-3 fish was too much for a 15g

 

4. Changed floss every 2 days during outbreak-1x a week regularly

 

5.cleaned all pumps, powerheads, hoses, and filter and do so every mnth now

 

5. Vacuumed my sand bed from start up and continue it to this day- sand beds that aren't deep need cleaning but if never vacuumed from start up- most likely need removal/replacement because vacuuming it all now may lead to further issues

 

6. Rinse media bags at every water change, detritus builds on them quickly- carbon changed monthly.

 

7. Cut my lighting time during cyano. Went from 10hrs to 8.

 

8. Use a turkey baster on rocks with every water change

 

9. Added macroalgae to help export nutrients

 

Hope some of this helps.

[Glitchfish]

I have never heard of cyano due to a clean tank.

 

Cyano is caused by high nutrient levels.

 

What is your phosphates and nitrate levels? These 2 tests are important because that's what will determine the issue.

 

Mag, alk, and ca are very important for corals health/growth.

 

What kind of filter are you using? Hob, canister, do you have a sump?

 

What livestock is in the tank?

 

What is the maintenance routine and what water do you use?

 

I had cyano a few mnths ago and got rid of it by process of elimination in my maintenance.

 

1. Added additional water movement so detritus/food wouldn't settle

 

2. Limited food qty- not ltd feeding but how much I fed.

 

3. lowered bioload in my tank-3 fish was too much for a 15g

 

4. Changed floss every 2 days during outbreak-1x a week regularly

 

5.cleaned all pumps, powerheads, hoses, and filter and do so every mnth now

 

5. Vacuumed my sand bed from start up and continue it to this day- sand beds that aren't deep need cleaning but if never vacuumed from start up- most likely need removal/replacement because vacuuming it all now may lead to further issues

 

6. Rinse media bags at every water change, detritus builds on them quickly- carbon changed monthly.

 

7. Cut my lighting time during cyano. Went from 10hrs to 8.

 

8. Use a turkey baster on rocks with every water change

 

9. Added macroalgae to help export nutrients

 

Hope some of this helps.

Ok Well I am using a sump, I did have the one that came with the aquarium which was working fine but the stock protein skimmer was awful and kept leaking, I decided to upgrade the sump about two months in to add new equipment such as reactors etc, It was manufactured incorrectly though so it runs backwards... That's my only gripe but there is no silt etc X)! The water is moving slowly but surely !

 

Onto the list of questions:

 

1.I run 4 powerheads 2 Vortech MP10's, One Koralia and one Tunza NanoStream 2050 i believe! so my aquarium has up to 16,000LPH So i don't think it's that

 

2.I have tried limiting food to every other day but my clownfish gets awfully aggressive If I don't feed so I need to feed daily to keep the peace. I sometimes accidentally pour too much food in.

 

3. I have only 6 fish in my aquarium, Hoping to get two small helfrichi to max the bioload up to 8 fish.

 

4. I change floss out as soon as I can ! Once every three days

 

5. I have't done this yet so It may just be down to dirty powerheads.. but the coralline on them is divine <3!

 

6. I have never vaccumed my sandbed, My CUC do that for me ! If anything I turkeybaste the surface to add some movement ! To be fair the Cyano Is never on the sand! Only on certain places on the rock and in all the same places....

 

7. I may look into the lighting one, I once came down at 5;00 in the morning to the tank running blues.. I have no idea why it isn't showing on my ecosmartlive account (Running a Radion)

 

8. I have recently stopped turkey basting the rocks to prevent the spreading of the cyano

 

9. I have Chaeto, Miracle Mud and Live Rock Rubble which runs in an opposite photoperiod to the main display, The sump looks cleaner than the main display sometimes X)!

[metrokat]

It seems like you are doing everything right. I wanted to ask you - what kinds of coral do you have and how they look in this very clean water? Also nitrate and phosphate levels would be good to know.

 

CyanoBACTERIA, is an imbalance of the proper bacterial profile in a tank. It can happen at any time, mostly it is seen in a young tank where the biological filtration has not yet matured so the bacteria are still trying to establish themselves and one can out compete the other for food sources.

 

You mentioned using a chemical to kill dinoflagellates (did it contain metronidazole), my guess would be that it killed the beneficial bacteria as well and cyano got a chance to gain a foot hold. I hesitate to say use chemiclean to fix it - it's a chemical - it does work, but you'll kill even more bacteria.

 

I would add Brightwell Microbacter7 to your tank. Turn the skimmer off for 2 hours when you do. I have personally had very good success with MB7 mixed with Zeo Coral Snow. You pour 2-3ml of coral snow in a cup. Mix it with 5ml of MB7. let it sit for a day or two. Stir it, shut off the skimmer and dose 1ml a day. Coral snow clouds up your tank so don't panic. It clears out in about an hour but since your skimmer will be off it will take longer.

 

I try to combat problems with a multi pronged approach. Cyano is also light dependent. You can go dark for a day or two, and during that time dose the previously mixed MB7+coral snow solution. Your corals will not be negatively affected for 1 or 2 days of lights out.

 

Slowly over time you will out compete the cyanobacteria with other bacteria.

Do not turkey baste the cyano - it only spreads. You have to siphon it out.

[Glitchfish]

It seems like you are doing everything right. I wanted to ask you - what kinds of coral do you have and how they look in this very clean water? Also nitrate and phosphate levels would be good to know.

 

CyanoBACTERIA, is an imbalance of the proper bacterial profile in a tank. It can happen at any time, mostly it is seen in a young tank where the biological filtration has not yet matured so the bacteria are still trying to establish themselves and one can out compete the other for food sources.

 

You mentioned using a chemical to kill dinoflagellates (did it contain metronidazole), my guess would be that it killed the beneficial bacteria as well and cyano got a chance to gain a foot hold. I hesitate to say use chemiclean to fix it - it's a chemical - it does work, but you'll kill even more bacteria.

 

I would add Brightwell Microbacter7 to your tank. Turn the skimmer off for 2 hours when you do. I have personally had very good success with MB7 mixed with Zeo Coral Snow. You pour 2-3ml of coral snow in a cup. Mix it with 5ml of MB7. let it sit for a day or two. Stir it, shut off the skimmer and dose 1ml a day. Coral snow clouds up your tank so don't panic. It clears out in about an hour but since your skimmer will be off it will take longer.

 

I try to combat problems with a multi pronged approach. Cyano is also light dependent. You can go dark for a day or two, and during that time dose the previously mixed MB7+coral snow solution. Your corals will not be negatively affected for 1 or 2 days of lights out.

 

Slowly over time you will out compete the cyanobacteria with other bacteria.

Do not turkey baste the cyano - it only spreads. You have to siphon it out.

Oh dear... I did not intend to do that ! Now it all makes sense! The corals look fine to be fair ! My corals and aquarium look fine I just keep seeing it and it drives me nuts!! DX! I'm totally going to try this out as I have seen this thrown about on different sites ! Thankyou !

[Clown79]

Is this your tank? It looks good. I don't see any cyano issues.

[Glitchfish]

Is this your tank? It looks good. I don't see any cyano issues.

Oh Thankyou so much! Yes It is my Aquarium! I will post pictures tomorrow of my Cyano Issues!

[Clown79]

Well your tank looks really good, very vibrant. The colours pop!

[metrokat]

Oh dear... I did not intend to do that ! Now it all makes sense! The corals look fine to be fair ! My corals and aquarium look fine I just keep seeing it and it drives me nuts!! DX! I'm totally going to try this out as I have seen this thrown about on different sites ! Thankyou !

Tank looks great. Clams like dirty water, they need nitrates.

[Glitchfish]

Here are the photos of my Cyano, Four Days after a waterchange and it's back in full swing, It's all over the back of my aquarium and the areas you see here... you may have to look hard though as my camera couldn't pick it up, it is quite thick!

 

 

 

 

 

Well your tank looks really good, very vibrant. The colours pop!

Oh why ThankYou It means a lot !

Tank looks great. Clams like dirty water, they need nitrates.

Really Clams like Nitrates, i thought they just filtered particulates out of the water... maybe I do have nitrates albeit running biopearls

[metrokat]

I see it. Try the MB7+coral snow. You can even target the areas with pumps off with the mixture.

[Hammerstone]

Don't feel bad. I'm fighting cyano myself. Mine comes back in a matter of hours. A toothbrush and a razor blade on the walls of the tank helps to get it out of your tank, just for clean up. I also use a fish net to catch what gets free in the water. The toothbrush I use around my nems and on the rocks. I even have it get on my Zoas and RFAs and I gently go over them with a toothbrush so they aren't covered with the film of it.

 

Seabass and Clown have given me great advice on how to rid it from my tank. If you can find my thread called Hammerstones tank it's all there.

 

Good luck. Your tank really does look beautiful. I really have to stare at it to see the cyano. Don't give up!!?

 

Also, keep changing your filter floss often.

[Clown79]

I see it now.

Cyano can be beat.

 

The real cure is eliminating the nutrient source its feeding on.

 

Try process of elimination of where it may be coming from.

 

For me, i knew my source was hob filter and powerheads. I had not cleaned them for 3 mnths(i had health concerns and got lazy)and I started having issues. Cyano!

 

I did a cleaning of all equipment and changed some of my flow to hit the areas where the cyano was really growing.

 

If you scrub it off the rocks, syphon what you scrub so it doesn't settle or spread.

You may need a hand from someone to hold the syphon while removing the cyano from rocks.

 

I did a few extra water changes in between my regular ones and syphoned out the cyano with a turkey baster and vacuum.

After a month it was gone.

 

 

Not only did cleaning my equipment help lower my nutrient issues but the flow in my tank is far more powerful- dirty powerheads slow down.

Do you have any macroalgae for nutrient export?

[Glitchfish]

I see it now.

Cyano can be beat.

 

The real cure is eliminating the nutrient source its feeding on.

 

Try process of elimination of where it may be coming from.

 

For me, i knew my source was hob filter and powerheads. I had not cleaned them for 3 mnths(i had health concerns and got lazy)and I started having issues. Cyano!

 

I did a cleaning of all equipment and changed some of my flow to hit the areas where the cyano was really growing.

 

If you scrub it off the rocks, syphon what you scrub so it doesn't settle or spread.

You may need a hand from someone to hold the syphon while removing the cyano from rocks.

 

I did a few extra water changes in between my regular ones and syphoned out the cyano with a turkey baster and vacuum.

After a month it was gone.

 

 

Not only did cleaning my equipment help lower my nutrient issues but the flow in my tank is far more powerful- dirty powerheads slow down.

Do you have any macroalgae for nutrient export?

I have some chaeto, I was recommended to not use any other type due to asexual behaviour, I haven't cleaned my powerheads since startup so that may be where the problem lies... It's just such an awful job XD! I hate doing it so much!! Maybe doing so may start curing it ! I'm also in favour of the addition of new bacteria I was advised earlier! Do you think this would help ! The more bacteria the better ?

Don't feel bad. I'm fighting cyano myself. Mine comes back in a matter of hours. A toothbrush and a razor blade on the walls of the tank helps to get it out of your tank, just for clean up. I also use a fish net to catch what gets free in the water. The toothbrush I use around my nems and on the rocks. I even have it get on my Zoas and RFAs and I gently go over them with a toothbrush so they aren't covered with the film of it.

 

Seabass and Clown have given me great advice on how to rid it from my tank. If you can find my thread called Hammerstones tank it's all there.

 

Good luck. Your tank really does look beautiful. I really have to stare at it to see the cyano. Don't give up!!

 

Also, keep changing your filter floss often.

We'll get through this ! It's only a stunt in the road for a beautiful aquarium !

[MinnFish]

You haven't told us about your phosphate level. That's important and any present of iron. Some fish food are high in phosphate . Did you start with DR or LR. Also, sand can be a contributing factor. Over feeding cannot help either. Extended light schedule can also be an cause. I have been there before. It can be licked. Best wishes and happy reefing.

[Clown79]

Great points Minnfish.

 

Sometimes we overfeed our tanks without realizing it!

 

It is a pain cleaning equipment! Thats why I skipped it when i was unwell...what a PITA after though.

 

I just did my monthly cleaning and wow, the flow is really strong in the tank now. its amazing how the buildup can slow the equipment and no joke- my nitrate levels drop afterwards.

[Glitchfish]

You haven't told us about your phosphate level. That's important and any present of iron. Some fish food are high in phosphate . Did you start with DR or LR. Also, sand can be a contributing factor. Over feeding cannot help either. Extended light schedule can also be an cause. I have been there before. It can be licked. Best wishes and happy reefing.

Well the phosphate just never get's measured I can't read it on the test kit but it must be coming from somewhere... Is iron an issue? I don't have a test kit for that X)! I started with dry rock and live rock... then halfway down the road I bought some real reef rock and caused another cycle, only short but it occured. My lighting starts at 9:00AM and ends at 8:00PM May be slightly long but I never get to see it ! I probably overfeed but my Snow Onyx female clown Is evil when she's hungry (Like me XD) and well I feed daily She's like a sniffer dog when pellets go in there XD! I hope this is some sort of assistance, I'm cleaning my tank out tomorrow so updates will be imminent! I also always feed frozen as the only ones that eat pellets are my clowns and my goby. The rest are spoilt

Great points Minnfish.

 

Sometimes we overfeed our tanks without realizing it!

 

It is a pain cleaning equipment! Thats why I skipped it when i was unwell...what a PITA after though.

 

I just did my monthly cleaning and wow, the flow is really strong in the tank now. its amazing how the buildup can slow the equipment and no joke- my nitrate levels drop afterwards.

I'm so glad you're better No-one likes an Ill clown ! espescially when they have 79 parties (See that pun XD) I'll clean them out tomorrow ! I want to add more bacteria as well to combat it

[Clown79]

Why not set your lighting to your schedule? I run my 10g from 12pm sunrise and 10pm sunset.

 

My 15g is set from 2pm -10pm

 

Thank you. I am better:)

 

Keep us posted

[metrokat]

Most phosphate test kits give instructions for low range testing. That might help in getting a reading

[Glitchfish]

Urm.... I've just finished cleaning all my pumps and stuff but now my cyanobacteria is going orange ._. I'm really scared! Everywhere it's gone orange but my phone just can't see it other than here! I'm worried it's doing something evil I would have sucked it all out but don't have enough water X(

 

[truels2]

Is vaccuuming the sand bed necessary ? My tanks been up for almost a year and iv never stuck my vac into the sand bed i just try and get the stuff that settles on the top in some areas. Also i use to blow off my live rock and do my best to catch all the junk that floats away but i had some bad outbreaks of hair algae after. Have not done my rock in almost 7 months with no issues.

[fishfreak0114]

Is vaccuuming the sand bed necessary ? My tanks been up for almost a year and iv never stuck my vac into the sand bed i just try and get the stuff that settles on the top in some areas. Also i use to blow off my live rock and do my best to catch all the junk that floats away but i had some bad outbreaks of hair algae after. Have not done my rock in almost 7 months with no issues.

Is definitely recommend it. I vacuum my sand bed every two weeks and even in that short time it gets nasty!!! If you haven't since it's set up and want to i'd start slow, a small section with each water change so you don't let out too many nasties at once

[MinnFish]

I can't confirm this. But, I had major phosphate problems. While feeding frozen food. I would check for any black layers in sand bed before vacuuming. This could be an indication of hydrogen sulfide. Which can be lethal to the entire tank. After, reading your post. I think your best route should be a regular maintenance schedule. 10 minutes a day, can avoid problems later. Rocks and coral should be blown off regularly. And sand stirred or vacuum (if no signs of hydrogen sulfide) during water change. Best wishes.

[MinnFish]

Here is an article by Randy Farley, I enjoy his knowledge. I hope, I'm not breaking any rules by adding this link. Mods please correct, if any problems.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

[MinnFish]

BTW, what's your temperature in your display? I just trying to eliminate all variables.