KH is low

[Bamzam]

Hi All,

 

I have a 12 gallon tank that holds closer to 10 gallons of water. I do not have a RO/DI unit so I purchase my water from a LFS. I originally used to buy from a LFS that used fritz reef salt which is close to NSW. I've got a few frags now so I started testing water a lot and I had low Cal and Alk (380 cal, 6.6 Alk). I decided to switch to a different LFS that uses Kent salt which tested a lot higher. Additionally, I've been messing with kalkwasser in my ATO in an attempt to keep my levels up. Well it has been a few water changes now and I'm up to 1 teaspoon per gallon of kalkwasser in my ATO. Calcium has remained fine around 440, but my alk is still usually low around 6.8-7.0. Should I do something to raise the alk one time and then see if the kalkwasser can keep it stable? (Mg is around 1290)

 

I have the following coral: 2H torch, birdsnest frag, digi frag, candy cane, 2H acan, and a goniopora frag

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

[R1sky_Biz]

I'm dealing with a similar situation in a new IM Fusion 20g. Just got an ATO and wondered if I should get the parameters on point and then go with Kalk in the Reservoir or do the BRS two part dosing too keep things in check .

[4x5]

I keep my KH between 6 and 7 and it's been down into the low 5s with no issues. Don't stress it, with regular water changes you really shouldn't need to dose anything at the moment based on what's in your tank.

[Cencalfishguy56]

I keep my KH between 6 and 7 and it's been down into the low 5s with no issues. Don't stress it, with regular water changes you really shouldn't need to dose anything at the moment based on what's in your tank.

i also suggest this, don't chase numbers, stay simple with water changes, once you start dosing it can cause more bad than good

[blasterman]

I would bump alk up a little, and Ill argue that alk lower than 7 is not advisable with lps or sps. NSW is about 7.

 

Young tanks will go through spurts of rapid alk depletion as its the primary source of carbon. For this reason its not a bad idea to avoid NSW levels because it can dive much lower at a moments notice. This can cause a ph drop and other issues.

 

Kalk is not a good tool to elevate alk. Kalk will maintain levels, but doesnt elevate alk well because the levels required typically increase ph too much. Otherwise im a big fan of kalk and recommemd it in small tanks that quickly get saturated with CO2.

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Kalk is a poor choice if either the calcium or alkalinity is off.. Kalk increases calcium and carbonate (alkalinity) at the same rate. Let's assume your Ca is okay but your alkalinity is low. If you add enough kalk to raise your alk from low to okay, your calcium will likely have gone from okay to too high..Correct the chemistry with a two part dosing system first. Once you have your chemistry spot on, then kalk could be a good option.There's nothing wrong with kalk, it's just not a great additive if you have either Ca or Alk problems.

 

Additionally, do yourself a favor and get a Magnesium test kit. To simplify, calcium and carbonate (alkalinity) will tend to find one another in your tank, join up, and precipitate out. Magnesium is the key to keeping these two apart. If your magnesium is low, you'll notice both your Ca and Alkalinity drop over time. Additionally, having trouble maintaining Ca or Alk suggests a magnesium deficiency. To add on top of all that, all the major salt mixes I've used have had deficient magnesium to being with.

[IronChefItaly]

With a system like that (small volume and coral demand) you can easily get away with water changes for keeping your parameters in place.

[4x5]

I would bump alk up a little, and Ill argue that alk lower than 7 is not advisable with lps or sps. NSW is about 7.

I'll have to disagree there, stability is most important for SPS IME. I've run my tank between 6 and 7 for as long as I can remember and gone as low as 5.4 with no issues, most people running Zeovit or other low nutrient systems maintain a low KH to avoid burning their SPS.

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I'll have to disagree there, stability is most important for SPS IME. I've run my tank between 6 and 7 for as long as I can remember and gone as low as 5.4 with no issues, most people running Zeovit or other low nutrient systems maintain a low KH to avoid burning their SPS.

 

A good point... however, if you can keep elevated carbonate and calcium levels AND retain stability, that could be even better than stability with lower levels. Lots of the bigger SPS tanks keep elevated levels of these key elements to drive SPS growth. While keeping elevated levels of these elements isn't necessary, it's definitely possible and not even remotely difficult (in my opinion, anyway) if you know what you're doing. Additionally, due to environmental constraints that may be somewhat out of the reefer's control, it may be beneficial to run elevated alkalinity to maintain a higher pH (I'm sure you already know this, 4x5, but here's the literature on that for anyone else who may be reading).

 

Additional food for thought, dosing may actually be required to keep parameters stable, depending on your tank's usage and your salt mix's chemistry. I recently switched to standard Instant Ocean, and the new batches have been mixing up around 1,435 ppm Mg, 445 ppm Ca, and 11.8 dKh Alk. My tank only has a few SPS frags, but what if I had many more frags, and my alkalinity dropped to 9 dKh between water changes? If I performed a 25% water change with water of 11.8 dKh alkalinity, my tank's alkalinity would go from roughly 9 to 9.7 instantly. Some people would be okay with this swing, but I would not. I would strive to dose to keep the tank closer to the chemistry of my newly mixed saltwater to avoid this swing.

 

I don't mean to discount your experience and advice. I've had many successful tanks where I dosed nothing. And your point is very real: once you start dosing, you're probably setting yourself up for more maintenance in the future. However, I don't think that there's anything wrong with dosing to maintain desired levels, and in some cases, it may be required to keep parameters stable between large (or even normal) water changes. I think most reefers could benefit from understanding the chemistry of the main three a little better (Mg/Ca/Alk).

 

So, to each his own, and your point is definitely valid. I'd just like to toss in a somewhat opposing opinion, and encourage people to not be afraid of testing and dosing, so long as they're willing to learn and keep up with it.

[blasterman]

I'll have to disagree there, stability is most important for SPS IME. I've run my tank between 6 and 7 for as long as I can remember and gone as low as 5.4 with no issues, most people running Zeovit or other low nutrient systems maintain a low KH to avoid burning their SPS.

 

The OP isn't running your tank or a Zeofit tank. He has a new tank which tend to consume massive amounts of carbon / alk and cause it to dive. It also doesn't dive on a consistent basis and dKH consumption isn't linear.

 

I have the same 12 Mr. Aqua tank less than 6months along with several others. I know a lot of guys with bigger established tanks running alk in the 6.5 / 7 range with no problems because the water volume is sufficient to provide sufficient carbonate. Otherwise, if I try to run 6.5 dKH in my 12gal my montipora digi purples start receding their polyps. They like things a bit higher....but because this tank is also low nutrient going higher is a bad idea (ULN scenario). If it was a 120 gal I could let dKH slide. OP doesn't have this.

 

Kalk should be discontinued until water params can be stabilized. Or, only added / topped off in the evening when pH levels drop and the pH spike of adding kalk has the most benefit and is least likely to cause precipitation. I can never got why common sense things like that go over the heads of most reefers. 2+2 = 4, or, only add kalk when pH is lowest. Then we have this guy....

 

 

With a system like that (small volume and coral demand) you can easily get away with water changes for keeping your parameters in place.

 

 

IronChef's solution to every issue including incontinence and glaucoma is to do a water change because he doesn't understand the basic chemistry involved. Since I don't have a nitrate problem, and all other params are good why in hell would I want to futz around replacing 20% of my volume with 'china's finest industrial salt mix' simply because 1/4 teaspoon of bicarb (baking soda) is missing? Much simplier to add that back into my tank and keep params locked on stable. We can also skip the guy at the LFS store wearing a Marilyn Manson T-shirt and working on his GED trying to sell me a bottle of baking soda in distilled water for $15. C'mon people.

 

I've tested reef salt mixes the past few years ranging from dKH of 7.5 to 15, and the price of salt or the inclusion of market speak like "Pro" has nothing to do with consistency. Small tanks hate frequent water changes because they don't have sufficient volume to buffer the change. That's why all of a sudden out of the blue all SPS die after a water change. Best small SPS I've had are when I rarely do more than two water changes a year. 90% of salt tanks owners do frequent water changes for nitrate removal, and won't admit it.

[4x5]

 

The OP isn't running your tank or a Zeofit tank. He has a new tank which tend to consume massive amounts of carbon / alk and cause it to dive. It also doesn't dive on a consistent basis and dKH consumption isn't linear.

 

I have the same 12 Mr. Aqua tank less than 6months along with several others. I know a lot of guys with bigger established tanks running alk in the 6.5 / 7 range with no problems because the water volume is sufficient to provide sufficient carbonate. Otherwise, if I try to run 6.5 dKH in my 12gal my montipora digi purples start receding their polyps. They like things a bit higher....but because this tank is also low nutrient going higher is a bad idea (ULN scenario). If it was a 120 gal I could let dKH slide. OP doesn't have this.

 

I was responding to a comment that said running a tank at 7 or lower KH wasn't advisable for SPS and LPS - there most certainly is no issue running it at that level - many 1000s of people around the world run their SPS tanks at "NSW" levels or use NSW without buffering the KH to high levels. You don't need 10+ dKH to have SPS or LPS - fact.

 

I said the OP should do water changes to keep up with consumption, because, that IMO will work till his tank has more corals.

 

A good point... however, if you can keep elevated carbonate and calcium levels AND retain stability, that could be even better than stability with lower levels. Lots of the bigger SPS tanks keep elevated levels of these key elements to drive SPS growth. While keeping elevated levels of these elements isn't necessary, it's definitely possible and not even remotely difficult (in my opinion, anyway) if you know what you're doing. Additionally, due to environmental constraints that may be somewhat out of the reefer's control, it may be beneficial to run elevated alkalinity to maintain a higher pH (I'm sure you already know this, 4x5, but here's the literature on that for anyone else who may be reading).

 

Additional food for thought, dosing may actually be required to keep parameters stable, depending on your tank's usage and your salt mix's chemistry. I recently switched to standard Instant Ocean, and the new batches have been mixing up around 1,435 ppm Mg, 445 ppm Ca, and 11.8 dKh Alk. My tank only has a few SPS frags, but what if I had many more frags, and my alkalinity dropped to 9 dKh between water changes? If I performed a 25% water change with water of 11.8 dKh alkalinity, my tank's alkalinity would go from roughly 9 to 9.7 instantly. Some people would be okay with this swing, but I would not. I would strive to dose to keep the tank closer to the chemistry of my newly mixed saltwater to avoid this swing.

 

I don't mean to discount your experience and advice. I've had many successful tanks where I dosed nothing. And your point is very real: once you start dosing, you're probably setting yourself up for more maintenance in the future. However, I don't think that there's anything wrong with dosing to maintain desired levels, and in some cases, it may be required to keep parameters stable between large (or even normal) water changes. I think most reefers could benefit from understanding the chemistry of the main three a little better (Mg/Ca/Alk).

 

So, to each his own, and your point is definitely valid. I'd just like to toss in a somewhat opposing opinion, and encourage people to not be afraid of testing and dosing, so long as they're willing to learn and keep up with it.

 

With high KH levels run the risk of burning your SPS tips if your nutrients are really low, so you shouldn't elevate it too much over 7 if you run low nutrient (not that I'm saying the OP is or should). There's plenty of documentation of that on the internet.

[chipmunkofdoom2]

With high KH levels run the risk of burning your SPS tips if your nutrients are really low, so you shouldn't elevate it too much over 7 if you run low nutrient (not that I'm saying the OP is or should). There's plenty of documentation of that on the internet.

 

That was never the argument I was trying to make. My point was that it's bad advice to tell people to never dose in the name of stability.

[4x5]

 

That was never the argument I was trying to make. My point was that it's bad advice to tell people to never dose in the name of stability.

I still believe the OP doesn't need to dose (yet) given the stock in his tank, if you believe he should then thats OK as well, there's no right or wrong here, just experience and opinions - he can dose as needed which will likely be once or twice a week if that but I believe that using water changes would replenish his elements enough to avoid that. Personally I do believe in dosing (when required) for stability, it's why I dose twice per hour on my tank.

 

I think we're just misunderstanding each other. Sorry if I am, I'm not trying to argue.

[SquishyFishy]

I have SPS and its flourishing along with my softies, just did a water change 1/5 the tank volumn and retested

 

Kh at 9.6 Alk at 3.42 What should it be at. The ph was low so I started dosing Seachem's buffer yesterday and have been dosing Red Sea's No2/Po2 reducer for cyanno problem, says on the bottle its mostly Denatured alcohol...LOL But I dose Fusion 2 part all the time and I think that's why my SPS is so gorgeous.

 

But lately, purple coralline is disappearing and losing my snails and some shrimp...sexies are still fine, brittle stars are almost non existent and I had many in the rock, so I though it was a ph problem.

 

Any suggestions?

 

No nitrates, never have seen any always tests zero.....but do have a small cyanno problem. No GHA though. Here's my April tank shot.. I do not have a phosphate test kit so don't know about that.

[SquishyFishy]

The ph was at 7.5 and I was concerned and chasing the 8.0s....what else could be decimating my inverts? I've had them for 2 years now.

[ReefWeeds]

The ph was at 7.5 and I was concerned and chasing the 8.0s....what else could be decimating my inverts? I've had them for 2 years now.

 

If they're two years old, they could just be reaching the end of their lifecycle....

[Cencalfishguy56]

 

If they're two years old, they could just be reaching the end of their lifecycle....

probably also not surviving molts ect.