TrooperTK421 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 :UPDATED: This weekend we started to do a bit of pricing and research family wide. I have been doing my fair share on my own. Since this will be partly funded by my 9 yr old daughter, this will be her responsibility when I'm away for work. Also it will give her some good lessons with money and where to spend it, I hope. We are wanting to keep this tank as simple as possible. Now we aren't necessarily going cheap, but we do want to remain in a budget. Also we have limited room on where to display our tank so that limits some of our options as well. With that this tank will be sumpless and ran with a HOB filter. An Aquaclear 70 or 110 to be exact.I know the flow on the 70 can be strong so I'm hoping to place that in the center of the tank and a powerhead on the left and right. I'd love to have an MP10 but it's a little too pricey for what we plan to accomplish. I did consider running a single AC 110 in the middle and a single powerhead on one side, similar to Lani's setup but I'm afraid it might be too much. Any thoughts?I do believe the Fiji is what I plan on going with. The size seems right and I like the color as well. As for fish, the kids and I took a trip to the LFS to just browse today. My daughter fell in love with a Starry Blenny, a Green Clown Goby, and a Purple Firefish. However I know the starry will get large, and the goby/Blenny combo in the tank might be a no-no. The stocking ideas are endless and seem to be a challenge. I want to plan around possible livestock choices. Am I right about the starry's size concerns and goby/Blenny combo? I plan to do weekly 5-6 gallon water changes, and only plan on keeping soft corals. Minimal feeding schedule, and eventually adding a ATO system. For now I just plan on running a AC 70 or 110 HOB for surface agitation, and a powerhead for flow.Tank:Standard 20L 30x 13x13 Mesh Lid Bio Filtration: 15-20lbs Live Sand 20 Lbs Live RockMechanical Filtration:AC 70 or AC 110 for filtration, surface agitation & gas exchange.I plan to run a simple system here just some biomedia /LR rubble and maybe carbon. Possible filter floss and maintain its cleanliness 2-3 times a week.Power Head: Hydor Koralina Nano 425 or Jebao RW4 wave maker Lighting: LED OptionsAquamax 32W Nemo or Current Orbit Marine Pro I plan on keeping softies and zoas, but would I be able to keep frogspawn and hammers with either one of these? Also considering the AI Prime, but I'm not sure it would work on a 20L. Am I correct? T5 Lighting I'm not sure where to look or what I would need when it comes to T5's I was leaning towards LED for cost saving. Heater: 100W Finnex (placed within AC 50 or 70)Topoff:Not Sure, suggestions? For now I'll just top off when needed.Fish:Leaning Towards: 2 Clownfish1 Purple Firefish1 Blenny (what type I don't know) Corals: Zoa’s Paly’s Mushrooms Green Stars Discosomas Toadstool Hammer So what do you think for this beginner? Any suggestions on my setup? Possible things to look out for? Trying to keep it simple for my first tank and corals. Link to comment
Cencalfishguy56 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I have been wanting to do this for a few years now, and have had successful African Cichlid tanks in the past. As of now I have a 55 gallon cichlid tank, but the time has come to take on a small reef. To be specific I am planning on running a 20L, soft coral tank as I already have the tank in my garage. Im slowly purchasing supplies, and hope to start up this tank at the end of the summer. Planning on taking my time and doing it right. So by posting my plans now I can hopefully receive some advice/tips to fine tune my plans. I plan to do weekly 5-6 gallon water changes, and only plan on keeping soft corals. Minimal feeding schedule, and eventually adding a ATO system. For now I just plan on running a AC 50 or 70 HOB for surface agitation, and a powerhead for flow. I considered using a 10 gallon tank I have on hand for a sump, but I dont know much about sumps and honestly a bit apprehensive of them. Probably because of my lack of knowledge on them. Also should I consider a hang on back skimmer? Tank: Standard 20L 30x 13x13 Mesh Lid Bio Filtration: 15-20lbs Live Sand (not sure what brand. Will keep from purchasing fine) Suggestions? 20 Lbs Live Rock Mechanical Filtration: AC 50 or AC 70 for filtration, surface agitation & gas exchange. I plan to run a simple system here just some biomedia /LR rubble and maybe carbon. Possible filter floss and maintain its cleanliness 2-3 times a week. Power Head: Hydor Koralina Nano 425 or Jebao RW4 wave maker Lighting: Aquamax 32W Nemo Heater: 100W Finnex (placed within AC 50 or 70) Topoff: Not Sure, suggestions? For now I'll just top off when needed. Fish: Leaning Towards: Pair of Ocellaris clowns Bicolor Blenny Royal Dottback Clean Up Crew ( Hermits? Pistol Shrimp?) Possible Fish I'm consider: Blue/Green Reef Chromis Azure Damselfish Green Goby open to suggestions on stocking. Corals: Zoas Palys Mushrooms Green Stars Discosomas Toadstool Hammer So what do you think for this beginner? Any suggestions on my setup? Possible things to look out for? Trying to keep it simple for my first tank and corals. I say do a sumped system, it's extremely easy, I know it sounds complicated but I promise you it will make reefing way more easy and enjoyable lol also an ATO is a must, I promise you that, makes your life easier Link to comment
rfalk Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 +1 on the ATO. I would just get 20 lbs CaribSea Arag-Alive reef sand. Its pretty easy to find (even amazon has it). I personally like the Fiji pink. Link to comment
Cencalfishguy56 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 +1 on the ATO. I would just get 20 lbs CaribSea Arag-Alive reef sand. Its pretty easy to find (even amazon has it). I personally like the Fiji pink.dry pink Fiji is my vote!! Link to comment
TrooperTK421 Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 I may have limited room on where I place this tank. I've been reading up on sumps today and am starting to understand them more. I have a 10 gallon glass aquarium in the garage as well and was curious if someone out there makes a kit. Something I can insert into the tank. Maybe a cheap pre-made sump? I'm trying to keep the initial setup within a budget. With that in mind, what is a good skimmer for this size tank? Also is having a light below on the sump necessary? Also with flow. Since I'm planning on softies is one powerhead good enough? I know I want to eliminate dead spots. So I'm not sure if I should add another to crate more turbulence. I'm also concerned if I just run one my future corals might not be fans of the same flow day in and day out. How do I combat that issue? Link to comment
TrooperTK421 Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 Anyone have any suggestions on a LED light for a tank this size. Preferably under 200 dollars. Link to comment
TrooperTK421 Posted July 14, 2016 Author Share Posted July 14, 2016 So I'm still looking for a light. I think I'm going to add a tunze 9001 skimmer within my AC 110. Do something DIY and run some filter floss and LR rubble possibly. Still need to figure that out. Also my oldest and my wife were talking about livestock last night. Googling reef fish and this is what they want. I'm concerned it's too much of a bio load for the tank but I'll be doing water changes weekly. They want color and movement in corals and fish. Clownfish Pair Blue/Green Chromis Royal Gramma Tailspot Blenny Or Clownfish Pair Blue/Green Chromis Six Line Wrasse Tailspot Blenny My head says go with option one. Link to comment
Clown79 Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 I had a 55g sumpless. I am leary of sumps myself. Have had 4 tanks all sumpless. It is beneficial to have them but not necessary. I ran an aquaclear hob filter on mine with carbon and floss. I also ran an hob skimmer which I think is necessary on medium-large tanks. I had 2 koralias in my 55g, 1 won't be enough. I used about 1lb per gallon of LR. Its not a rule of thumb but a good guideline is 1-2lbs per gallon. Lighting options are numerous. With led- most are pendant lights which will require multiple fixtures. Lighting: Aquaillumination Nanobox Kessil Mars Aqua Orbits Aquamaxx Link to comment
Cencalfishguy56 Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 I had a 55g sumpless. I am leary of sumps myself. Have had 4 tanks all sumpless. It is beneficial to have them but not necessary. I ran an aquaclear hob filter on mine with carbon and floss. I also ran an hob skimmer which I think is necessary on medium-large tanks. I had 2 koralias in my 55g, 1 won't be enough. I used about 1lb per gallon of LR. Its not a rule of thumb but a good guideline is 1-2lbs per gallon. Lighting options are numerous. With led- most are pendant lights which will require multiple fixtures. Lighting: Aquaillumination Nanobox Kessil Mars Aqua Orbits Aquamaxx use one kessil on my 20L and it's been solid for me, my rock work is also dead center at a max of 24" so works for me Link to comment
MrNanoReef Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Here is something you should consider using. AC70 Surface Skimmer Aquamaxx Nemo Light Smart ATO Micro Link to comment
Clown79 Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 My bad. Lol. I thought you were setting up a 55g! I have the aquamaxx nemolight on my 10g and I really like it. Corals look great and are happy I have the ai prime on my 15g. Its a nice light as well. So far I can't say how the corals like it. Link to comment
BlindZide Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 I ran a few tanks sumpless before and as long as you keep up with water changes and generally upkeep, you'll be fine without one. The tanks I did have a sump with were less cluttered with equipment and wires hanging which is a huge plus if it is in an area that is regularly visited. As far as a skimmer, I was always told to get a skimmer that can do twice your water volume. So for a 20g, you want a skimmer that works for at least 40g. Here is something you should consider using. AC70 Surface Skimmer Aquamaxx Nemo Light Smart ATO Micro Thanks for the link to that ATO. Need one and that looks like an amazing product. In my MarineDepot cart now. Link to comment
TrooperTK421 Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Awesome! Thanks for all of the responses! Any thoughts on the stocking? Link to comment
Elizabeth94 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 As far as stocking I think the fish you chose are fine, but you might want to consider keeping maybe four fish instead of five. The more fish you have, the more water changes you will have to do if you factor in feeding. I had four fish in my 29gal and found it a bit much. If you do get clowns add them last, they can be pretty aggressive to new fish sometimes. Oh btw, that Smart ATO is awesome and will make life a thousand times easier. Link to comment
Clown79 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 The royal gramma, is it the dottyback or basslet? Both are often listed as royal but each fish has different temprament. The dottyback is aggressive and no shrimp with these fish. I love purple firefish- great fish and really beautiful. Best kept with peaceful fish. Blennies,They have a lot of character. Mine was aggressive with my clown though and ticked off my corals perching on them. I love clowns! Very entertaining. Link to comment
youincolor Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Gotcha I was considering these stock lists also: 1 Clownfish 1 Purple Fire Fish 1 Royal Gramma 1 Midas Blenny Or 1 Clownfish 1 Green Ghost Goby 1 Bi-Color Blenny 1 Royal Gramma I cant make up my mind. LOL I've had a 20L and loved it. I would look into the CPR CS50 to drain from the main tank to the sump, and a Mag 5 or equivalent return pump. A sump is super simple to build and will make your display tank look so much cleaner without equipment clutter. I think I still have my 20L build linked in my signature. But, back to stocking, I would stay away from a Royal Gramma. I am assuming your LFS is selling the basic dottyback, and they can get super aggressive. I always had a pair of small clowns in mine, and have kept six line wrasses before, which are cool fish that dart in and out of the rocks and water column, purple firefish, which again are cool and hang out in the water column, and a bicolor blenny which are funny fish to watch up close, but they perch most of the time and can aggravate corals. Most of your blennies are going to perch on sand or rocks, depending on the type. As far as fish that are out and swimming, I say two small clowns, a six line, and a firefish. You absolutley will have to have the tank covered with no gaps as the 20L is a short tank, and the wrasse and firefish will try to jump when startled. Link to comment
Tamberav Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Anyone have any suggestions on a LED light for a tank this size. Preferably under 200 dollars. Where are you located? US? You said you are planning to do it right, a sump would be ideal. Tanks can be run without them, but its much more enjoyable to have one over a HOB. Link to comment
Bcb577 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 +1 on the ATO. I would just get 20 lbs CaribSea Arag-Alive reef sand. Its pretty easy to find (even amazon has it). I personally like the Fiji pink. +1 on the Fiji pink I have it I'm my 14 bc Link to comment
fishfreak0114 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Caribsea Fiji pink is very nice. The color is pretty much white. The grains are large enough to not blow around unless a power head is giving them a lot of flow. Link to comment
TrooperTK421 Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 This weekend we started to do a bit of pricing and research family wide. I have been doing my fair share on my own. Since this will be partly funded by my 9 yr old daughter, this will be her responsibility when I'm away for work. Also it will give her some good lessons with money and where to spend it, I hope. We are wanting to keep this tank as simple as possible. Now we aren't necessarily going cheap, but we do want to remain in a budget. Also we have limited room on where to display our tank so that limits some of our options as well. With that this tank will be sumpless and ran with a HOB filter. An Aquaclear 70 or 110 to be exact. I know the flow on the 70 can be strong so I'm hoping to place that in the center of the tank and a powerhead on the left and right. I'd love to have an MP10 but it's a little too pricey for what we plan to accomplish. I did consider running a single AC 110 in the middle and a single powerhead on one side, similar to Lani's setup but I'm afraid it might be too much. Any thoughts? I do believe the Fiji is what I plan on going with. The size seems right and I like the color as well. As for fish, the kids and I took a trip to the LFS to just browse today. My daughter fell in love with a Starry Blenny, a Green Clown Goby, and a Purple Firefish. However I know the starry will get large, and the goby/Blenny combo in the tank might be a no-no. The stocking ideas are endless and seem to be a challenge. I want to plan around possible livestock choices. Am I right about the starry's size concerns and goby/Blenny combo? We have thrown out the idea of a six-line, royal gramma, and the Chromis. My oldest has her heart set on a Blenny, Clown Fish and, a fire fish. I believe when the time comes our stock will be: 2 Clownfish 1 Purple Firefish 1 Blenny (what type I don't know) Hopefully that will create a entertaining group to go along with the corals. Any thoughts or concerns? Link to comment
Clown79 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Is the tank under 20g? If so, thats too many fish. 2 clowns would be it or a clown and firefish. You are fine going hob- clean it monthly, replace floss weekly or more, change carbon monthly-rinse the bag weekly with water changes and you'll be fine. I have a 15g with an api superclean. I don't use larger filters, i use the recommended size because the liverock is the real filteration, hob is only to help remove particles and chemical filteration. I am a worry wart- the weight of a larger filter on a smaller tank- concerns me Link to comment
TrooperTK421 Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 The tank is a standard 20L ( 30 x 13 x 13 ). The HOB will be maintained vigorously and on a monthly schedule. I do this with my 55 gallon cichlid tank now. Link to comment
TrooperTK421 Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 Updated Original Post Link to comment
Clown79 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Is this a 20g tank or 20L? I would not put liverock rubble in your filter. It will trap detritus and cause issues with nutrients. Carbon and floss is the best option for hob and later if needed phosphate removers. Your liverock is the biological filteration. Powerhead placement will all depend on the flow in the tank and the corals needs. Until you physically start the tank, its hard to say where your ph and filter will go. I've changed mine 4x's in order to get it to a perfect flow. I have a 15g with a small filter(i use it for floss/carbon only so i never use larger filters), the flow is on medium on the hob with 2 powerheads. I have 66x flow rate in my tank. For softies aim for 30x's. Hob returns create a different type of water movement, its downward force so the filter placement to powerhead placement is important to get the "right" flow. Link to comment
pablom617 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 If I could have done it again I would do a sump on my 20 long, the tank dimensions are hard enough to aquascape without the equipment in the display. You don't need a fancy sump, you could even us a rubbermaid. My new tank is drilled and sumped and it wasn't hard at all, I had the same concerns you did. If you don't decide to sump it I would suggest to sticking with powerheads only without the aquaclear... with the volume in that tank it just isn't necessary. My ac70 would dump a good bit of bubbles also. I also echo everyone else on the ATO, I truly didn't enjoy my tank until I got it. Either way, best of the luck with the build. Link to comment
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